Reply To: Tirailleurs du Po

[OotKust]

Summation of the most horrendous and dubious commentary seen: even in 2019 it was never accurate, merely “informative prose”-

willz wrote:

This site is useful I think? https://www.fsegames.eu/forum/index.php?topic=39439.0 Le Plumet plates are very good for accurate information.

The Regiment “11e Tirailleurs du Po”, was born in april 1803 by some italian volunteers, most of them coming from Piemonte and from …

Marshal Nicolas Jean-de-Dieu Soult, took them under his wing for the 3rd coalition war against the Austrian Empire, in which they’ll be remembered for Austerlitz Battle….

But finally, in 1811, they became the 2nd “tirailleurs” french regiment;

The Tirailleurs du Pô were formed in 1803 of northern Italians. According to John Elting “they rapidly became a crack battalion”. In 1811 …

On this site pan down 4 pictures and you will see a picture of : Tirailleurs Corses and Tirailleurs du Po in Ebersberg. Tirailleurs du Po appear to wear shako’s. Willz.

1. The Regiment “11e Tirailleurs du Po” – there was no such ‘regiment’. Formed with elements from Piedmontese as stated, the cadre were marched to St.Omer to join the Army of the Coasts (England). As a singular body, ex-Cisalpine/ Sardinian ‘recruits’ were added to form the Battalion du Tirailleurs du Pô.

2. [ Edits 2024-March ] The ‘Picot’ style flag is incorrect by Rigo. These flags (made for the legere regiments and some ‘hors ligne’ units mostly. However as more research shows, Rigo’s full plate description has a brief analysis; and questions why a de facto ‘legere’ unit was given a Chaillot- style, line flag.

3. “Marshal Nicolas Jean-de-Dieu Soult”- no such person- he was baptised simply as “Jean-de-Dieu” (John of God- after a Spanish I think Saint) and had no ‘Nicolas’ in his name. That ‘epithet’ was a denigration bestowed by 19thC British writers.

4. ” took them under his wing” – well if being ‘assigned’ to a corps by N. causes such a thing, then maybe they were.

5. “But finally, in 1811, they became the 2nd “tirailleurs” french regiment” – never heard of it. [Ed. No such animal except in ‘Young Guard troops’ ]. What the single battalion units of the French Army, and there weren’t many, were amalgamated into a nearly ‘elite’, not mundane, body of the newly recreated “11eme Legere”. But we get ahead of ourselves…

6. “According to Elting “they rapidly became a crack battalion””- well virtually every corps that spent two years or more in the  Army of the Coasts (England) ‘became crack battalions’ in whatever their field. The ongoing building of corp esprit, comaraderie and discipline, not to mention wide skills and drill, drill, drill, with a very close watch kept on leadership and economies, forged what became La Grande Armée of 1805. A trite comment of no value AFAIC.

7. “you will see a picture of : Tirailleurs Corses and Tirailleurs du Po in Ebersberg. Tirailleurs du Po appear to wear shakos” – the Battn de Tirailleur Corse (aka Battn de Chasseur Corse in the epoch- see Berthier) were likwise formed to the ‘Pô’ and were brigaded together on campaign.

The former (Corse) wore 1800 style shakos from inception (99 officers and men marched via Marseille in shirts and breeches without uniforms) and the latter (Po) only ever wore chapeau until possibly 1809 or later [ a modern illustrated depiction/ reconstruction does not confirm anything no matter how pretty the plates are.] .
Those in Italy ‘legions’ were hand picked experienced youth from the Garde Nationale du Corse and select educated conscripts.

This battalion never wore brown in Germany. It was issued ‘standard’ infanterie legere French uniforms upon arrival at St.Omer, save the ‘special’ feature of green facings.

That brown dress was of ‘Legion du Corse’, a secondary Garde Nationale formation that had 5 battalion garrisons at major towns on the island to prevent British incursions as in Buonapartes chaildhood. Some of these men were used, in defined composite battalions, in the later ‘Army of Italy’ (1808+) when the friction with Naples, and invaders, created the need. They were not ever known or called as the Tirailleur Corse.

The fine artistry of _ creating epic battle scenes and uniform creations, are following a long list of erratic 19thC copyists- neither Knötel, Darbou, E.Fort or others saw the Tirailleur Corse in real life. The former ‘swapped’ data with other artists to enlarge his domain of material, without verification of sources or accuracy. Thus much of what is ascribed, and devotedly/ slavishly drooled over via the modern ‘Elting’ books are just so much expensive bunkum.

Guy Dempsey jr. gave a glimpse of such when he translated a letter from (Col) E. Hulot, the commander of the unit from 1805-1807

“You have asked me to write to you to describe the uniforms of the Po Tirailleurs and the Corsican Chasseurs so that these two corps can be accurately depicted in a painting concerning the Battle of Hof, February 6 1807, that is being created by Colonel Langlois.

These two corps had the exact same uniform as all the other light infantry of the period and the same organization — nine companies (including one of carabiniers) and no voltigeurs. My battalion differed from the other only in the dress of the drummers.”

I offer that we know for sure, that at the beginning of their careers/ organisation (1803), the unit did wear bicorne, while the Corse did wear shako. So this gives a defined period to when the bicornes were foregone and shakos replaced them.

Given the difficulties of modernising and replacing uniforms for the Grand Armée ‘in situ’ for 1805- 1807 (most of them did not go home to France) and the subsequent restructuring, mass of conscriptions and enlargement of the multiple armies by 1808-09, not to mention the splitting into different theatres (Italy never went away, it was always occupied), the prospect that somehow standard legere uniforms would have been superceded by ‘native’ brown uniforms in the interim, to give in 1809 such an appearance, is unlikely.

As Paul L Dawson has been seen eloquently pointing out recently, a lot of what we think we know is merely made up realignment and suppositions about uniforms by ‘association’, with very little fact to substantiate the ‘artists’ material.

Thanks for following along, d

[ Multiple edits Mar-24_dw].