It’s difficult period to write rules for. The ever changing weapons means you can’t simply have a base rules set which covers all. Even Bruce Weigle’s (have I spelt that right?) excellent 1870, 1859 and 1866 rules have to be tweaked to cover it. If you’re looking for corps-level command, which I believe to be the optimum level or playing considering the mass scale of battle that took place, then the 1870 derivative rules are one the best around. At regimental level, the Baccus Commandant De Bataille is probably best for the scale. Otherwise, Fire and Fury variants would probably do the Job.

Scale wise, I’d stick with the smaller scales (2-15mm), as even just reading the pages on wikipedia show how big the scale is. I have no idea about 10’s and 15’s, but in 6mm Heroic’s and Ros have an adaptable Franco-Prussian and ACW Range, while Baccus has it’s own war-specific range.

Link to Bruce Weigle’s website 

Well I only (so far….) Play the Austro-Prussian war. I use 10mm figures and tend to use Black Powder. So far it has provided decent games with enough period feel. Also used Principles of Wasr, and indeed my forces are organised and based for this. They too gives good game but it a little slower and more clunky than with BP. Would love to try Bruce’s 1866 but they are a tad on the expensive side to try out.

I currently game the 1870 period in 15mm, using an adaption of fire and fury from the Wyre Forest wargames club. It provides a good game and the rules are easy to pick as most of my club are very familiar with F&F. Currently got the French, Wurtembergers and some Bavarians

Hi Henry,

Thank you very much for your kind comments. I have just put a new post up, though I am currently having an argument with Google+ and Blogger as they won’t let me upload my latest photos which is somewhat annoying.

as for scale, if I was to start again, I would in all likelihood go with Pendraken 10mm stuff. A very complete range with all units available including Brunswickers who only accounted for a couple of regiment in the German army of 1870. It is unlikely they will make their money back on those codes but they did it anyway! Gotta love that!

Given the size of the field armies in the latter half of the 19th century, it would be advisable to with 2mm to 10mm figs as corp plus sized engagements were common in this period.

as for rules, well, where to start.

i believe a single rule set is perfectly capable of covering this whole era. Two examples of this (and in my collection) are Field of Battle 2nd Edition and Zouave II (1861-1871).

both are very good sets and Zouave II is my preference because it deals with the fog of war of such large armies of this period very well. Zouave II strives to remove the absolute control and compensate for the clear helicopter view of the entire battlefield and all forces thereby arrayed in a very clever but easy manner. Yes it is card-driven I suppose which some seem irked by but I think it adds to the games and gives you an edge of the seat experience.

one of the default requirement I have for any rule set for any era, is that it should allow a sizeable wargame to be fought to a decisive conclusion within a 3 to 4 hour period, or, a typical club night. I think this is very important. As a young teenager going to my nearest and most excellent club (no mean feat for I was under the age of driving and public transport in the evening, especially late evening, in the rural area in which I lived, was appalling), I became frustrated with the wargames we played as we rarely were abe to fight a wargame to a proper or decisive conclusion. The adult gamers would then stand around for a bit after declaring time, discussing the possible outcomes with the forces that were left on the table ( usually nearly all of the starting forces). I thought this seemed rather pointless, which I think is why in the 90’s, Fire & Fury was such a revelation along with DBA.

Bruce Weigles are also very excellent sets, with each set covering the aforementioned periods separately apart from 1859 which also covers 1864. However, I think the reasons that these are separate rule sets is a different reason to the one suggested. Zouave II covers and has templates and advice for gaming the ACW, Maximilian adventure (France in Mexico), the Austro-Prussian War and, the Franco-Prussian war and handles these significantly different conflicts very effectively.

Bruce Weigles rules are as much rule sets as they are source books. Bruce Weigles rules include quotes, drawing, photos and paintings specific to the conflict covered by each set as well as detailed information on each weapon used by each nation and full orders of battle and chronological timeline histories. Hence the reason they are separate rather than one volume. This would be nigh on impossible with all the information contained in each rule set.

the reason I veered away from FoB is because I wanted 1 base to represent one battalion. Whereas in FoB, a battalion is represented by 4 small square bases of figures. But I will still be trying them out with adjustments being made accordingly.

there are a couple of rule sets conspicuous by their absence in my rules library currently. The first set is To The Last Gaiter Button by Realtime Wargames. From what I have read and been told directly, these may become my go to set once I have purchased a copy. They have one thing that Bruce Weigles rules, FoB 2 and, ZII don’t have. A comprehensive campaign system which I feel for the FPW is necessary to really enjoy war gaming the FPW period and get a proper feel and flavour.

So once pay day arrives once more, an order will be made and I will post a review once I have had a flick through.

The other set is Blackpowder, though this is low on my purchase list due to cost and I don’t believe it will be my cup of tea either.

Polemos FPW also seem to be a good system from a read through and will deffo be giving these a try. I am hoping, and probably in vain, for a Polemos companion to their FPW rules which will help with campaigns etc.

i have numerous other sets and happy to discuss further if anyone is interested but I’ve only dealt with what I feel are the best sets for this period for dealing with large battles in the smaller scales. I looked at Furia Francese which a free F&F based system but it wasn’t my cup of tea for this period.

also, there are 1/72nd plastics available for this period, but I still remember the paint flaking of my Airfix, Esci and Revell figures and will never go back. Also, I don’t think 1/72nd is the best scale to get the most out of war gaming this period.

i also have ideas for my own system for this period for big, bloody fast paced battles and campaigns that model the fog of war effectively but with minimal book keeping or card turning.

an easy way to do this with a standard set of rules, however, is employing an umpire who then designs a scenario (if playing a one off battle) and only relaying or revealing scenario information to either player slowly as the scenario/battle unfolds on the table top.

for example, a simple and typical engagement of the FPW period might go something like this:

Each player is given a corps.

The French are defending a ridge line, with villages on either flank and interspersed woods on the ridges. A road links the two village running parallel to the long table edge on the French side and exiting either flanks. A road also runs from each village back to and exiting the Prussian deployment long edge.

the Prussians have to attack across the open ground and roads leading to the ridge line and villages. To win the Prussians have to occupy both villages.

Unbeknownst to the Prussian or French player, only the umpire, the Prussians have another corps matching to their aide (good old Moltke and Prussian doctrine of marching to the sound of the guns copied from the French). The umpire, each phase or turn dices from turn 4 or so onwards (as the Prussians should begin to be mauled if the French know what they are about), to see if the Prussian corps will arrive the following phase or turn. The first time this dice is rolled a 6 is needed. Then for each successive turn, you minus 1 to the chance of the additional Prussian corps arriving.

Keep rolling until it arrives.

When it does arrive, roll 1D6 1-3 it arrives on the road one flank in the French deployment zone approaching the village 4-6 the opposite side. The turn it arrives it may conduct a turn as per the normal rules. The same turn the Prussian corps arrives, throw another D6. On anything but a 1 a French division that has been kept in reserve arrives to aid the struggling French corps already deployed. The French player may deploy this additional division anywhere they like within their deployment zone.

This will make for a very interesting game.

The French should be able to still contest one of the villages if they make a good fighting withdrawal to a defensive salient around the village on the side the Prussian corps didn’t common.

The chief problem I see with FPW wargames in particular is that the French are able to deploy their Miltrailleuses up front with their infantry. In the imperial phase French artillery and Miltrailleuses were poorly used. Miltrailleuses were typically deployed with the artillery that typically deployed and opposed the Prussians at long ranges with pre-set fuse shells rather than impact fuses.

This means one of the earliest machine gunsel was never utilised properly and had a limited impact on the war.

I consistently see in AAR reports of the FPW, French victories. I believe this is because:

a) games aren’t fought as part and therefore not generated from an overall campaign game that is being played out and;

b) The scenarios are poorly designed but might be a result of;

c) lack of man power resulting in the lack of availability of an umpire who is not simply an umpire but also the wargames God dictating and cleverly evolving a scenario as it is played out on the table top.

Ok, that turned into a bit of a rant, apologies. Mind you this is better than my latest blog post… Oh well!

Rhys

Dave Fielder at the HMS Sultan Wargames Club occasionally put on a FPW game in 6mil using Principles of War. Great games and informative.

Prince Rhys wrote:

The first time this dice is rolled a 6 is needed. Then for each successive turn, you minus 1 to the chance

There is another optional rule for such situations, exactly the same but starting from 1 it is easier to keep track with:

– at the end of the 1st game turn the action succeeds if the die rolls 1

– at the end of the 2nd game turn the action succeeds if the die rolls 1 or 2

– at the end of the 3rd game turn the action succeeds if the die rolls 1, 2, or 3

– at the end of the 4th game turn the action succeeds if the die rolls 1, 2, 3, or 4

– at the end of the 5th game turn the action succeeds if the die rolls 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5

page 6 of this document: http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/pdfs/meteo-emoticon-dice-en.pdf

Oh yes I understand

In my example “the 1st game turn” would mean the 1st turn when the fresh troops can arrive in the scenario, = the 4th turn in your game.

Yes, scenarios with unknown reinforcements arriving at an unknown time are a good idea.

I really fancy FPW in 10mm.  Sometime, maybe, never.  I’m slowly building up a small Mexican force, followed by U.S. for the Mexican-American War 1846 in 28mm; nearer skirmish numbers rather than big battles.  It’s another fascinating subject.

Henry Hyde wrote:

Great blog, Colin, and it certainly looks like you’re having fun! And you should never dangle a potential magazine article in front of an editor. He just might take you up on it…

Henry, well way back in the 1980’s/90’s I did have quite a few articles published by one of your illustrious predecessors so now I am enjoying (earlier than expected) retirement perhaps I shall take up the pen again!

Colin

I agree with the post above that games and rules have to be structured to fit the period otherwise with 1866 and 1870 you may as well not put the Austrians and French on the table. It also depends on the mindset of the players, especially anyone commanding the alleged ‘underdogs’.

In 1866 games I don’t allow the Austrians to march around in lines and engage in firefights unless they happen to be holding a particular position as part of the scenario. Even then, historically, the Austrian idea of defence was to attack! Getting them to move in line is difficult so the rule amendments I use make it almost a necessity for them to remain in assault column if they are to manoeuvre effectively or even at all, and have any chance of assaulting the Prussians in enough numbers to overwhelm them, albeit usually only temporarily!  I also amend the rules/characteristics so they don’t allow the Prussians to use their artillery aggressively as they did in the FPW. For example, for encounter games where troops are entering the table, artillery attached to a formation always enters last, and the army reserve artillery always enters last of all. I also limit how close they can deeply to the enemy as they were more timid in 1866.

In FPW games again I agree the mitrailleuse ought not be deployed in the ‘front line’ as in the Imperial period at least they didn’t do it, so I make the French player deploy theirs paired up with an artillery battery, again a given distance behind the leading infantry, unless they are defending a village or similar of course.

I could go on as I’ve been gaming and researching these wars passionately, especially 1866, for much of my wargaming life, i.e. maybe 25+ years, first in 6mm when I had both armies for Konigratz, and lately in 28mm.

We play 1859 as well as 1866 & 1870-71 but not as much as these other wars. 1859 is an interesting war but it is short and limited, even when compared with 66 and 70-71. We normally re-fight historic battles and there are a lot more of these in 66 & 70-71 than in this war. While both the other wars are greater in scope – you have not only the fighting in Bohemia in 66 but also in Italy and Germany. In 1870/71 you also have the Republican phase battles.

Henry is trolling one of my favourite periods – horse and rifle!

Nevr done it, but I am thinking of Guerra del Pacifico in 6mm at i fig = 10 men.21:46:39

Wow, this has been an interesting thread.  I have not played FPW since the rules “They Died For Glory.”  I have always liked the look of the era.  Back then the were very few figures made.  Then foundry pulled the range and my interests went in other directions.

I like your blog Colin.

Matthew

I was tempted to do 1859 as I can use my Crimean French and Sardinians. Would need more of the latter though and technically my 1866 Austrians are in the wrong uniform so I’d have to do them all again minus greatcoats. What tempts me even more are the armies of Naples and the Papal States, but thankfully I have run out of room for any more 28mm armies at the moment!

Yeah, I’m posting to an older thread. In my defense, I’ve only been here a few days.

I am a huge fan of 1866. I game it in 1/72 scale. Actually I own figures for 1859, 1864, 1866 and 1870 (along with 1877) in 15mm.  I had vast armies 20 years ago. But I sold them off. I decided to do it again with mainly Old Glory figures. But my true love is 1/72 figs. I use Field of Battle 2nd edition. These are my go to rules for 1700-1914. Brent Oman actually sent me an adaptation to bump the scale up a level (1 unit equals a regiment). I have yet to try them out since 1866 has several Corps on Corps battles. My 1/72 French are not yet done. When they are 1859 and 1870 will start up.

My buddy Ed and I recently ran a small FOB 1866 game. I had my Prussian Brigade with some Jaegers pushing out from a Mountain Pass to enlarge their foothold. An Austrian Corps marched piecemeal onto the field. My Prussians shot up the first Austrian regiment. But I got cocky and tried to take a hill overlooking the town I was holding. I lost almost a regiment and had to retire awaiting further infantry marching forward. That ended the game. I am sending reinforcements to my Prussians . I am painting up another 8 battalions of regular infantry to help out. Then a Cavalry Brigade.

Thanks,

John

Tank ee kindly for that Mr McLaddie.  Do you know how the company columns were formed, no of ranks file width etc?

Many thanks, makes much more sense.

That reminds me Dave we’ll have to get these out again for another game sometime

Well of course the great thing about this hobby is that we can try things out like the Austrians forming firing lines against the on-coming Prussians. There were a number of officers at the time who thought this was the way to go, especially after the initial experiences in attack columns but the troops weren’t trained to do it and a complete tactical overhaul was out of the question.

The Franco Prussian War gets more interesting during the Republican phase. The Prussians have had enough and the French artillery improves. Most of the Garde Mobile units were poor but not all, you can still field Zouaves (with added Papal Zouaves!!!) and Turco’s, there were more Chasseur battalions raised, the Foreign Legion (don’t go crazy 2 battalions, maybe three at the most) and my favourite units the Marins (sailors not marines). There were units of red clad Garibaldini and you can have mixed French cavalry  units.

Plus the French actually won a battle…