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Andrew Beasley.
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23/06/2023 at 16:03 #187556
Andrew Beasley
ParticipantRather than ‘hijack’ the interesting “Why is modeling and painting” topic I thought I would start this…
Some of the posts cover the new introduction of coloured figures and I was surprised that no one mentioned the ‘Color-Printed’ option from Hero Forge [product page]?
$45 per figure is steep (even for a skirmish game) but I’ve seen pro-painters charge similar for squad leaders and more for characters and you then only end up with a generic figure (though superbly painted) compared to a bespoke unique figure.
There are a few HF figures around the house and the quality is good but I have no coloured sample here – I’ll check with Alice over the weekend if she is back (digging holes in the Isle of Wight this week). A close look at the samples linked above shows a ‘dotted’ colour look and they do warn of loss of detail.
I think I would pay this for a beloved RPG character as a one off but not as general figures even if I had the money as the human touch sits better to my eye.
Thoughts?
23/06/2023 at 19:40 #187573Tony Hughes
Participant$45 for a paint job that is no better than ‘reasonable’ IMHO on a printed model that may show printing lines ? I’m sure that there are those who would pay for the latest ‘innovation’ but not because of its quality.
I’ll admit to not being an RPG player who prefers armies of smaller scale figures to larger ones. I’ll also admit to a good may years of practice painting so I’m not in position to criticise those who feel they can’t paint to a standard that they are happy playing with. I can see that this is more evidence that the economics won’t work out very well for historical figures.
23/06/2023 at 19:55 #187574Jim Webster
ParticipantJust to agree with Tony, it does look steep, especially if you’re looking for a lot of figures
https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/
23/06/2023 at 20:02 #187575Mike
KeymasterThe print lines are pretty negligible. (Edit: actually they are quite obvious) But that is not the point. It is about having a model of your own RPG character.
You are not going to be able to commission a traditional 28mm model from a sculpter for anything close to that.
Let alone it come to your door painted. You can also keep the file and change clothing and pose as you like.
23/06/2023 at 22:22 #187578Tony Hughes
ParticipantIf the technology is going to only do highly specialised items of interest to a fairly small cadre within what is already a small market I can’t see much future for it. To be of any wider usefulness it needs to be able to appeal to a wider audience. I can see that RPG, Fantasy & similar genres are probably a more likely market than historicals – they have always commanded higher prices for what is essentially the same thing. I cannot see that attracting historical wargamers to any significant extent.
24/06/2023 at 01:04 #187580MustPlayThat
Participantstack em high, sell low, I think will win, as an RPG fig you would only buy one fig,and its custom made per fig but historical you may buy a 1000 from 5 designs that would already be available from perviose army prints
If i was a 3D print company, I would also print on bases that are for a set of rules. or generic bases,
ALSO ! you can buy your own 3Dprinter, and print your own models, you can use a free model app like blender, Im not sure how to paint them prob in an app, but 3Dprinting isnt that expensive considering every army you want is yours, Im sure your freinds would buy armies from you
My experience in 3D printing, is small items like figs are quick and easy to print, dont buy one of those liquid printers, get the spools version,
24/06/2023 at 08:18 #187582Robert Dunlop
ParticipantThe new multi-colour 3D printers are extraordinary. But they have a prohibitive price-tag from a gamer perspective. The costs will come down. When the figures and/or printers become truly affordable then it will herald another quantum step forward in 3d printing for sure. ‘Painting’ 3D digital sculpts is a different skill. Block colours are easy but showcase quality ‘painting’ takes more effort and finesse. It is already possible to print high quality colour figures but eventually it will be a case of printing an entire army, pre-based, with unit labels and flags. Roll on the day…
Robert
24/06/2023 at 09:05 #187583MustPlayThat
Participanti was looking at at 16 colour 3d printer on amazon , it was £2000, then i looked on ebay and found armies for 700 and 1500, so if you printed two or three armies you would break even, you could sell them or keep, and then the printer would be making money.
i think zbrush used to paint a 3d model, it was pretty easy, just like 2d painting,
Im sure 5 figs repeated 1000 times would make money.
roll on soon 🙂
24/06/2023 at 09:11 #187584MustPlayThat
Participantwhat will really blow your mind is, you can paint any 3d model, so all the tanks etc… already made can be painted.
24/06/2023 at 09:12 #187585Mike
KeymasterMy experience in 3D printing, is small items like figs are quick and easy to print, dont buy one of those liquid printers, get the spools version,
Why do you prefer FDM over resin?
Myself, I have an old resin printer which gives me just acceptable prints for rank and file models and terrain in 10mm.If you look at something like the new Anycubic Mono 5S, whilst it is a 12k printer, the quality can be surpassed by the better older 8k printers, but the speed that the Mono 5S prints at is bonkers.
This took under 2 hours to print:
Now this image is of older printers, but both types have improved since then:
If I did 25mm I would be tempted to use FDM for terrain and so on, but not so much for figures.
24/06/2023 at 09:20 #187586MustPlayThat
Participanti dont like resin, because of the scafolding supports, I had a 3d printer, and never had to use scafolding, but if you have one then you will know better, but cool prints
also if anybody else is thinking of sculpting, you can use a modeling app, and cut pieces from other models, then splice them, really cutting down workload, its a learning curve but once you know how its just a bit fidily to splice
24/06/2023 at 11:29 #187588willz
ParticipantI predicted a couple of years ago somewhere on this forum that 3D colour printing would happen as the 3D printers got cheaper, though $45 for one figure is pricey. Asda was doing a 300mm 3D printed figure of one’s self for £60 a few years ago. I think print shops will start doing 3D printed items in the near future and we will be able to buy 3D printed armies. It would be nice if they would charge £2 or less for a 30mm figure, I can dream.
24/06/2023 at 13:23 #187589Aethelflaeda was framed
ParticipantPersonalized wedding cake figures. 54mm or biggger? That’s the market.
Mick Hayman
Margate and New Orleans24/06/2023 at 14:24 #187591MustPlayThat
Participantlife size female movie stars 🙂
24/06/2023 at 14:29 #187592MustPlayThat
Participantthey planned on taking an aliminium 3d printer to mars, then mine the metal, and make habitats and return rockets. is that cool 🙂
24/06/2023 at 21:36 #187596kyoteblue
ParticipantYou kids with your colour 3-D printers…pashaw!!!!
26/06/2023 at 09:05 #187622Phil Dutré
ParticipantFor very individualized figures 3D printing offers a lot of possibilities. Perhaps even for warband games. You might even invest in your own printer.
But for let’s say a massive game with several 100 figures … I don’t really see how it could be done cheaper at home that through a 3D printing service.
A friend of mine has printed a lot of “specialized” ww2 vehicles at home (1 or 2 models per vehicle). You buy the stl files, you print them once or twice. In such cases the economics work out.
26/06/2023 at 09:26 #187628Mike
KeymasterI don’t really see how it could be done cheaper at home that through a 3D printing service.
Depends what they charge, resin figures are bonkers cheap in terms of material.
Take this 18mm tall dude:
Now that cost does not include his shield, but even with that factored, it is still mad cheap.
27/06/2023 at 00:38 #187684Andrew Beasley
ParticipantGets a messy full comparison though:
- Your time to set the printer and print up vs the ‘simpler’ web order time
- Spoilt / lost resin during wash
- Electricity costs
- Depreciation of printer / cleaner / curing stations
Gut feel – PYO is cheaper but more fussy (esp if you do not have the space).
27/06/2023 at 02:25 #187687MustPlayThat
Participantwe are thinking of 3D printing as we know it, but if we get a method so cheap! you can print as many figs as you want, and then print more after a while, then it would be good. I just bought a milk tray box of chocks, and it had plastic shells inside that could be painted and used as sci fi buildings, so it got me thinking that we dont need solid figs, if you can 3D print coloured shells of figs, it would be cheap and fast and you could print as many as you want over and over. just an idea thinking outside the box.
3D figs are kinda hollow now, but if you dont want a solid fig it may be good to just have a shell,
the quality may not need to be as good either, just a quick army represention shell in colour would be ok, if your just wanting to recreate a battle, if you want a model rather than a game then then get more detailed models as usual
27/06/2023 at 08:50 #187693Phil Dutré
ParticipantMass production will always beat house-made in terms of *total* cost. It’s simply a matter of distributing the fixed cost of the machinery over price per item. Whether as an individual it’s more convenient to order something or rather DIY (“It’s my hobby, so I have fun doing it!”) is a different matter.
3D printing at home is very useful for individual items for which a mass production setup doesn’t make sense or is non-profitable. However, over time, 3D printing could as well become a very cheap service as simply sending a file to a printer service, and they don’t care what the printer spews out. If the printer doesn’t care whether to print 1000 individual items or 1000 identical items (and associated cost before and after), it doesn’t matter anymore. Then printing at home becomes even more expensive. There’s no way one can keep it up with changing tech, maintenance, labour, etc.
But now, we’re still very much in the transition phase between both modes.
27/06/2023 at 08:54 #187694Andrew Beasley
Participant… I just bought a milk tray box of chocks, and it had plastic shells inside that could be painted and used as sci fi buildings, so it got me thinking that we dont need solid figs, if you can 3D print coloured shells of figs, it would be cheap and fast and you could print as many as you want over and over. just an idea thinking outside the box. 3D figs are kinda hollow now, but if you dont want a solid fig it may be good to just have a shell, the quality may not need to be as good either, just a quick army represention shell in colour would be ok, if your just wanting to recreate a battle, if you want a model rather than a game then then get more detailed models as usual
I’ve used the Amera [Amera UK site] moulded terrain previously but the rounded edges on walls bugged me more than I thought it would. With them being so light I did find they moved around the table at the slightest touch and ended up putting felt under them to help.
As for the tray being used for figures – maybe add some plasticine to give weight and they could work well. Only concern I have is recognising the troops from the shapes BUT I had to memorise the resin blocks I use 🙂
27/06/2023 at 09:10 #187695MustPlayThat
Participanthttp://www.amera.co.uk/ is really interesting someone is doing this.
27/06/2023 at 09:32 #187697Tony Hughes
ParticipantVacuum formed terrain items have been around a VERY long time – anyone remember Bellona ? I still have an unused trench system of theirs but, after 30 odd years, I still haven’t found a use for it.
Most of the stuff that can be vacuum formed can be done DIY in other materials quite easily so I tend to prefer that as I like making stuff. I suppose, for those who want it ready made, it is good but it is very lightweight.
27/06/2023 at 09:57 #187698Mike
KeymasterGets a messy full comparison though:
- Your time to set the printer and print up vs the ‘simpler’ web order time
- Spoilt / lost resin during wash
- Electricity costs
- Depreciation of printer / cleaner / curing stations
Gut feel – PYO is cheaper but more fussy (esp if you do not have the space).
Once the files are done and sliced and the USB stick is inserted, you can print the same stuff over and over and over with no additional time spent.
Agreed, the noise and smell is annoying.
I think even aggregated the lost resin during cleaning is negligible, maybe a fiver over a year of printing?
Another pro is that it is quick, typical wait times for a load of figures?
Dunno, 5 days ish?
Print time, a few hours depending.Hanging around in various 10mm fantasy places as I do, it is clear that people who have had a printer a while, have printed enough models that they have more than paid for the printer in terms of what it would have cost to buy them.
I have not printed that much, but I have covered my costs, terrain helps of course. As gamegonegood noted above, hollow printing of 10mm and or 6mm terrain means that printing a building is pennies rather than the pounds to buy a commercial resin one.Plus you can print meeples for boardgames, dice holders, dice towers, hooks, decorations, movement trays, dice even. If you only print figures you can make your money back, if you print other stuff….
For me, my printer is old and the quality just short of what I demand for hero models and characters.
But for rank and file, and terrain it is great, but then it is 5 years old..Still printed this in 10mm though for 50p.
27/06/2023 at 10:12 #187701Phil Dutré
Participantif you can 3D print coloured shells of figs,
We have come full circle … hollow cast toy soldiers used to be a thing once 😉
27/06/2023 at 10:58 #187703willz
ParticipantVacuum formed terrain items have been around a VERY long time – anyone remember Bellona ? I still have an unused trench system of theirs but, after 30 odd years, I still haven’t found a use for it. Most of the stuff that can be vacuum formed can be done DIY in other materials quite easily so I tend to prefer that as I like making stuff. I suppose, for those who want it ready made, it is good but it is very lightweight.
Oh yes I even made my own vacuum former mould many many years ago, but it was cheaper to buy Bellona stuff. I wish I had kept the few items I bought.
27/06/2023 at 11:02 #187704willz
ParticipantWhilst on the mould subject check out the number of clay molds on Etsy, I have not look through many but I bet there will be items we could use for gaming / modelling.
27/06/2023 at 11:32 #187707MustPlayThat
ParticipantWhilst on the mould subject check out the number of clay molds on Etsy, I have not look through many but I bet there will be items we could use for gaming / modelling. https://www.etsy.com/uk/market/clay_molds
not sure i want to get into making these but its prob worth looking into
27/06/2023 at 16:50 #187714Mike Headden
ParticipantThe problem with 3D printing looking from the outside at the few people I know who have them is that they seem to fall into two camps.
The first group is those who wanted a few specific things, printed them and now the 3D printer has joined the Peleton bike, the bread and soup makers and the rowing machine in cluttering up the spare room or garage. They seem to be a minority.
The second is those who have printed enormous numbers of things they will never paint or play with and which they would never, ever have bought. I am reminded of the times I went to the GW store sales in years gone by, where I spent money I didn’t have on things I didn’t need and tried to persuade my wife to look at what I’d “saved” not what I’d spent. 🙂 At least in those days I could sell them at the next show Bring & Buy for a significant profit.
When a 3D printer is as simple to use and as cheap as a microwave count me in 🙂
Roll on the molecular forge or the replicator!!
There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data
27/06/2023 at 23:02 #187758Andrew Beasley
ParticipantGot an answer from Alice:
We’ve always got them plain in part because of the cost but mostly because we enjoy playing. I’ve seen a few photos on the hero forge Facebook page and the colours seem quite muted.
Think playing should be ‘painting’ – I know Jack earlier this year had ZERO in his paint pile!
28/06/2023 at 11:27 #187774MustPlayThat
Participantin case you have not seen it, humblebundle have a 3D fantasy model collection bundle, its got about a week left to buy £20 for 104 modeles. if you have not heard of humblebundle, its a charity that has lots of great cheap bundles every month, I have bought many many bundles with no probs.
https://www.humblebundle.com/ then click the bundles button top left, dont get into the games libruary
28/06/2023 at 11:32 #187775Mike
Keymaster28/06/2023 at 14:08 #187778Jim Webster
ParticipantAm I wrong to find the description of a figure as ‘Orc Barbarian’ a little disconcerting. By definition if you have to label some orcs as barbarians it must mean that some aren’t. I want the orc philosopher, the orc gentleman of leisure, and the orc wine snob 🙂
https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/
28/06/2023 at 14:55 #187781willz
ParticipantWhilst on the mould subject check out the number of clay molds on Etsy, I have not look through many but I bet there will be items we could use for gaming / modelling. https://www.etsy.com/uk/market/clay_molds
not sure i want to get into making these but its prob worth looking into
I am with you, too many project temptations.
28/06/2023 at 15:58 #187782Guy Farrish
ParticipantOrc Diplomat perhaps?
NB These will under no circumstances enhance your LoTR gaming but the 75 years on one may inspire a scenario?
28/06/2023 at 20:37 #187791Andrew Beasley
ParticipantAm I wrong to find the description of a figure as ‘Orc Barbarian’ a little disconcerting. By definition if you have to label some orcs as barbarians it must mean that some aren’t. I want the orc philosopher, the orc gentleman of leisure, and the orc wine snob 🙂
IIRC, the Orcs series of books [Wikipedia] by Stan Nichols has smart orcs, skilled medics and it’s the humans that are destroying the land…
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