6mm Sword-and-Planet?

[Rhoderic]

All the talk about microscale gaming on TWW is starting to influence my hobby preferences. I was just having another look at the various 6mm sci-fi and fantasy ranges out there when the thought struck me that a lot of them would be bloody excellent for a Sword-and-Planet setting – something along the lines of Barsoom but with a greater variety of races and civilisations. A setting where a select few quasi-magical sci-fi technologies like handwavium-powered firearms, open-topped skimmers/gravsleds, airships and lightweight stronger-than-steel body armour (but not tanks, guided missiles, robotics, fighter aircraft or any of that) exist alongside archaic martial practices like rank-and-file battle formations, cavalry, warbeasts, 15th-19th century-style artillery and close combat with swords/spears/axes and shields.

The ranges from Microworld, Dark Realm and Steel Crown / Onslaught together offer a very wide selection of suitable figures. Some 6mm historicals could also be turned to that purpose. 1/1200 Aeronefs from Brigade Models could be converted into 1/300 skimmers and small airships (BTW, Brigade Models is planning to release Martian/Venusian Aeronefs later this year).

Has anyone commenced on a project like this already?

Any suggestions for what a project like this might look like, more exactly? With such an abundance of figures, which would be the best ones to start with? What would the factions be?

[Alexander Wasberg]

Well, to be honest I hadn’t thought of it before you mentioned it.. but now I can’t get the idea out of my head! A friend and I was once working on making a 15mm not-barsoom, so I suppose it’s similar enough.

Between the ranges you’ve mentioned you have all the diversity you need to make a number of different civilizations.

Were you thinking this as a skirmish project with a dozen or so models per side, or did you intend a full-on mass battle type thing?

I think that for starters you would have to decide how “true” you want to be to the source material, do you want to re-create barsoom, or do you just want something similar?

Since you got me thinking, an initial plan might be something like this:

let’s start with two factions that’s fairly different from each other maybe some Magi-tech alliance of humans and elves (you can call the elves something else) and a opposing force of very tech-heavy humans.

The Magi-tech faction could be constructed using some microworld elves for mage-characters, you could use some Baccus6mm medieval knights and pikemen/swordsmen for regular soldiers, Onslaught Stygian barges for magical skimmers. You might make some magic-tech crystal/energy rifles from some musket-armed units with a small crystal-like shape at the end of the barrel. The Microworld dark elf riding lizards might fit in this faction as well..

The techy humans can be constructed with baccus6mm SYW or ACW models for most firearms-carrying troops, smiliar era cannons and some Aeronefs from brigade for skimmers. SYW/renaissance pikemen and swordsmen for meleé troops.

 

This is just a rough idea of the top of my head, but I’d love to discuss this further 🙂

http://lasersandbroadswords.blogspot.com My project blog

[Rhoderic]

I probably wouldn’t stay true to the ERB source material. Red Martians of the style I want are one thing that’s kind of missing (I’d want them to look like the 28mm ones from Bronze Age and Tin Man) but I can live without them given all the other suitable figures available. That said I do believe Michael Lovejoy sculpted some big four-armed aliens in 6mm at one point, but I don’t know which company they were for. I only saw the sculpts on his website years ago – never did see them in production.

I envisage a world that maybe has the slightest whiff of a “saturday morning cartoon” feel to it. That is to say, a planet that has lots of non-human races scattered about so as to allow all available, suitable figures to be used. Several almost-human races (along the lines of the blue-skinned fellow that’s my avatar), some zoomorphic humanoids (mainly of reptilian, avian, insectile and simian natures), and maybe some centauroids, four-armed bipeds, humanoids of considerably-bigger/smaller-than-human size and the like. There could be a few dominant civilisations and prominent barbarian/nomad races, with the remaining races being more like mercenaries, vassal tribes and incidental allies. Were VSF humans to land on the planet with colonialist intentions, many of these less prominent races would probably side with them.

The thing that sparked this idea in my head was the realisation that there’s quite a profusion of alien riding beasts in 6mm. I’d love to include some of those. To that end, one idea I’m toying with in my head is a faction that’s pretty much Eldar Exodites transplanted into a sword-and-planet setting, perhaps with a bit of a Bedouin/Tuareg aesthetic mixed in. Some sort of lizardmen or insectmen could be good adversaries. The critical difference to 40K-style science fantasy is that there would be no tanks, warbuggies, warbikes or anything of that sort rolling around, nor jet fighters/bombers performing air strikes, artillery firing at targets they can’t even see, drop troops performing orbital insertions, etc. Colonialist VSF-tech Earthlings might come later.

As for scope, I suppose “big skirmish” would be a good start, perhaps with a view to making bigger armies later. But come to think of it, a smaller skirmish scope could be a nice way of testing the waters.

All of this is still hypothetical, though.

[Alexander Wasberg]

I thought it sounded vaguely saturday morning cartoon-ish.. And that’s a good thing in my book!

If you wanted to start out at not-eldar exodites vs some sort of lizard or insectmen, you could go with the dark realm kraytonians mixed with microworld lizardmen for saurians (they have some sweet lizard riders as well ), while you have microworld kreen and perhaps some of onslaughts not tyranids as bug people. The exodites could be anything you fancy, depending on how exotic you want them to look. Some different historical humans, maybe with a lizard mount or two could work, as could microworld dark elf models.

 

I think you are better off starting with a small skirmish for testing 🙂

 

http://lasersandbroadswords.blogspot.com My project blog

[Stroezie]

Why? Why did I have to read this thread?
Its bad enough both Angel Barracks and Microworld games have anounced their intentions to release a bunch of post apocaliptic figures now I have to add this to my list of future projects to 😉
Love this idea, I’ve always been a fan of the Don Lawrence comics Trigan Empire and Storm, something like that seems like it would make an awesome project to me.
At skirmish level, what rules would you use? Something like 5 Parsecs from Home or Rogue Planet perhaps?
Oh and I agree, the more aliens the merrier.

[Alexander Wasberg]

You know you want this, give in and join the hivemind, together we will come up with crazy things!

on a more serious note, I’d probably try using five parsecs or maybe rogue planet. I have considered starstrike as well, using 4 to 5 man units with a few individual heroes on each side.

http://lasersandbroadswords.blogspot.com My project blog

[Rhoderic]

Stroezie wrote:

Why? Why did I have to read this thread?

BWAHAHAHAHA! Another thrall for the empire of sandals and rayguns!

Rules, I have no idea about. Haven’t really been following developments on the rules front for the past few years.

By the way, I just noticed Onslaught’s upcoming Aztec-style space lizards (previewed on their front page). They look practically tailor-made for a project like this.

If I do proceed with this project, my main concern will be how to modulate the balance of primitive and high-tech weaponry. I imagine the Exodite-style nomads having fairly advanced firearms (and armour), but does that mean I want them all using firearms? None armed only with swords or spears/lances? Also, at some later point I might want to add an Empire of the Apes using Microworld’s Wildland Alliance figures, but unless I convert them they will only have primitive weapons. So do I want bows and arrows to be able to compete with magi-tech firearms in this setting? Maybe some sort of magi-tech explosive-tipped arrows…

[Alexander Wasberg]

On the issue of balance I think that bows and arrows can easily contend with magical firearms. Obviously firearms tend to be more destructive, but given their relative rarity in such a setting bows and crossbows tends to be much more common and therefore much more economical to field in greater numbers.

So in my mind, a force like the exodites would be fewer in number, with firearms and some meleé weapons as well, all in superior quality to for example a less advanced tribe of locals, who might have a number of bows and assorted meleé weapons, but will be more numerous.

This sort of balances the superiority of better training and gear against numbers, which works fine for big games in my experience. For small skirmish you would most likely have the added layer of different skill levels to help balance things as well.

An arrow fired by a skilled archer is most likely as deadly as a laser-beam fired from a magi-tech gun, barring some cases.

http://lasersandbroadswords.blogspot.com My project blog

[Rhoderic]

That’s a good justification, Alexander. I’ve decided to go ahead with this project, at least so far as doing some test paints and conversions. I probably will do some converting of individual 6mm figures, though. I’ve got this idea in my head of converting some Dark Realm Andrayadas infantry – the ones with the bulky armour and giant shoulder pads – to be carrying spears and big shields (taken from other 6mm figures to make things easy on myself). They’d be some sort of elite guard for an as-yet-undefined imperial civilisation. Later on some Onslaught Avians may get a similar treatment (swapping firearms for crossbows or primitive melee weapons) and some Microworld Orangutans may get the reverse treatment (swapping bows for firearms).

Meanwhile, I’ve been looking for more skimmers and airships. Here are some ideas I have:

I’ve already mentioned the Brigade Aeronefs, but their Iron Stars VSF spaceships may be even more suitable for conversion. They have cool-looking fins. Obviously they’ll need converting into open-topped vehicles, though. Or I may just take the fins and put them on other models.

Kallistra has a “Ratmen Air Balloon” in 10mm. I’d omit the balloon itself (which is a ping-pong ball that doesn’t come with the model anyway).

A couple of Irregular’s 6mm fantasy flying machines look perfect.

The Stygian Barges from Onslaught have also already been mentioned.

The Darkest Star Grav Rafts/Sleds could look the part with a change of crew and some artsy exotic details added.

Various rocketships from Hydra’s War Rocket range would be excellent for converting into open-topped skimmers and aircraft (personally I’d remove the rocket engines, and I imagine the Zenithian ones might look best upside down).

Spartan Games has some interesting ships.

Tin Man has an interesting little skiff in 28mm that would be a great basis for a conversion.

Recreational Conflict has something similar in 15mm (hidden away in the 28mm Lead Bones Pulp section).

And some 18mm flying craft from Martian Empires.

Anything I’ve missed?

[Etranger]

There’s the Star Wars Tatooine Desert Skiff of which a number of different models exist in various scales. EG http://mightyjabba.com/2010/05/06/micro-machines-action-fleet-battle-pack-6-dune-sea-desert-skiff/

[Rhoderic]

For airships/skimmers of a weirder and more exotic sort, the following could be good bases for conversions. To be clear, I’m talking about some fairly heavy converting here (they have to look more like airborne boats than the grav tanks, fighters and dropships they are in their unconverted state). Some might also be best turned upside down.

Ultimately, though, there’s a lot of suitable miniatures out there if only one is willing to go to the effort of converting. A bit of a rabbit hole, this.

[Angel Barracks]

A little known secret is that I will cast up things for people as a service.
But they must be able to be cast from resin and have a flat bottom, as I use simple one part moulds.

So things like buildings or hover vehicles with flat bottoms or indeed say skiffs could in theory be cast up by myself in resin for a reasonable price.
This may or may not help with ooooh shiny syndrome…

[Alexander Wasberg]

Rhoderic: I think you have nailed the best pieces I could find as well, so I’d start with some of the simpler vehicles, like the martian empires one; minimal conversion needed there.

I really like the idea of the andrayada guard, I might just try something like that myself at some point 🙂

 

@AB: yeah Michael, offering to support our habit is helping a lot with the oooh shiny 😉

 

 

http://lasersandbroadswords.blogspot.com My project blog

[Fredd Bloggs]

Hmmm nice idea, we at  http://www.rapierminiatures.co.uk do some classical fantasy in 6mm that you might be able to use in the setting as well.

[Rhoderic]

Fred: I have some 6mm samples from Rapier already (and although I find them to be more like 7mm, I’m happy with their quality), but thanks for chiming in! While I have your attention, do any of your Sea Peoples (which aren’t pictured on your website) have Sherden-style horned helmets?

I’m starting to think that I may be prepared to do some converting at some later point for the sake of making a force that at least somewhat resembles Barsoom-style Red Martians, as long as I keep the conversions simple – in other words, mainly swapping heads/headgear. Baccus makes Mahdists and Zulus with rifles. Swapping their heads for ones wearing ancient-style helmets of a suitably decorative and exotic appearance could get me close enough. Another thought is to get some of the Rapier Trojans and convert the ones holding spears at 45 degrees to be holding firearms instead, but that’s a bit more complicated.

[Stroezie]

So, has anyone else done anything sword and planet yet?

So far I’ve started on an Alien Planet jungle board

Painted some Dark Realm Kraytonians ( and ordered some more)

Although after re-reading  this thread I will most likely be converting a number of the heavy armored ones to spear carriers and dropping out the heavy weapons.

And I built a little 3 man flier (don’t know which faction i’ll use it for though)

I’ve also been looking at Onslaught minis Avians for a possible second faction. I’m thinking of maybe putting them in a howdah on top of one of Rebel minis spider bugs.

For a possible human faction I’ve been pondering maybe doing something with Baccus miniatures early 18th century Ottoman Turks or great northren war Poles.

So, what do you think?

And also what do you have?

 

[Mike]

Quick question, should this be in the sci-fi forum, rather than the fantasy?
Or am I missing something subtle?

[Stroezie]

Well, Sword and Planet as a genre is more or less defined as science fantasy so this thread could belong in both.
Might gain a little more traction in scifi imo but as it was originally posted in the fantasy section I thought it best to continue the discussion here.

[Mike]

Ta-da.
I will go and read it again now.

😀

That flyer looks sharp!

[Stroezie]

Painted up the airskiff

All in all pretty pleased with how it came out.

I’m goining to make at least 2 or 3 more of these and then start thinking about building someting similar but one or two sizes larger.

 

[Mike]

Gordon’s Alive!!?

That is very cool.
I am going to speak to AB about something like this…

[Alexander Wasberg]

Very nice!

http://lasersandbroadswords.blogspot.com My project blog

[Stroezie]

Tried out an alternate color scheme on my next skiff.
I havn’t decided yet if my human faction is going to be a desert dwelling (arab/tuareg) or more of a mediteranian (roman/greek) culture.

Any opinions or idea’s are welcome.

 

 

 

 

[Angel Barracks]

I am thinking they are tops from cartons?

I think the red with a gold base and the blue with a silver base, or maybe both with a grey base?

[Stroezie]

Angel Barracks wrote:

I am thinking they are tops from cartons?

Right in one go AB 🙂

I think I’ll try both with a grey base and maybe do the fins in yellow and white.

[Stroezie]

KLATU  VERATA  THREADO!!! 

 

Sorry for the threadomancy folks but I was wondering if anybody besides me and Rhoderic would be interested in this kind of stuff.

The reason I ask is that, in a bid to bring a bit more focus to my modeling, I’m seriously considering starting my own 6mm sword and planet miniature and terrain line.

Initially I would like to start by remodeling some of my existing scratch built terrain and vehicles like the flyers above to make them fit for resin casting.

I also have some more idea’s for buildings and a larger flyer.

If I can get that off the ground I’d like to get some of my own miniatures cast starting with some alien races and then later some human adventurers.

A few pics to give you an idea

Wow, that last pic is really bad quality

What do you think guys would there be a market for this?

[jagannath]

Love all this – I think the more ‘pulpy’ sci fi out there the better really… I really like your buildings and I’d definitely buy a few packs of some minis like your tentacle blokes if they were cast up.

http://www.bladesandblasters.com

[Angel Barracks]

I don’t know to be honest.
I suspect there would be a market, whether it would enable you to make a profit from it I am not sure, I feel the best first steps would be the buildings rather than anything metal spin cast.
If you want to pick my brains you know where I am.

 

😀

[Anonymous]

Trying to keep things compact but thought I would put in a “Great Idea!” Comment.

Other than legacy figures I am staying in the 15/18mm to 3mm range for all my future gaming.  This sounds like an excellent project.

[Rhoderic]

I find this idea very energising for me personally. But given the “niche-ness” of the products, I suspect it would have to be a vanity project / labour of love that wouldn’t recoup the outlay. At least, I for my part would only ever start producing 6mm sword-and-planet items with the assumption that the personal satisfaction I’d derive from it would be the principal reward, and that it may just end up costing me money. If I had the money I might just get into something like this myself, but currently I definitely don’t have it.

It probably doesn’t need pointing out, but some of the items you’ve displayed wouldn’t likely be mould-friendly. So there’s considerations like that to take into account.

At any rate, your enthusiasm is infectious 

[Alexander Wasberg]

I like the idea, 6mm sword and planet is really cool. As previous posters have pointed out however, I don’t think it would become a huge commercial success due to the niche market of both 6mm sci-fi and VSF or sword-and-planet. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t go for it though!

I make some terrain and mechs out of resin for my own use, and as Rhoderic says personal satisfaction is a good reward in and of itself.

I just have to say that those alien octopods are the coolest, as I’m sure most people will agree 🙂

http://lasersandbroadswords.blogspot.com My project blog

[Stroezie]

Oh I wasn’t thinking of getting rich off of it, or even earning a living from my sales, It would definately be as you say a vanity project.

More of a way to focus my creative juices and keep me from meandering all over the place and only ever half finishing anything.

On the other hand, if nobody but me would be interested in it I might be better of looking for an other way to motivate myself.

Also part of the fun for me would be learning how to build/sculpt things for casting and then eventually learn to cast in resin and maybe even drop/spin casting in metal. As you said some of the minis above would rip the molds to shredds.

[Mike]

I think the resin alien buildings would work, not much in the way of alien structures out there.

[Rhoderic]

Mike wrote:

I think the resin alien buildings would work, not much in the way of alien structures out there.

Including the ones with all the beams sticking out of them? You’d know better than I, but my instinct is to avoid casting them with the beams as long as that. Which is a shame, really. Those buildings look awesome.

On another note, there might be something to be said for making buildings that could equally well be interpreted as low-tech or “cultural throwback” ones in a sci-fi world (eg. Dune, Star Wars or Nausicaä) or as belonging in a non-traditional fantasy world (eg. Tékumel).

Stroezie, if you’re still prepared to go ahead with something like this being aware of the up-front outlays, then I am totally with you.

EDIT: Realised seconds after posting, when you (Mike) said the alien buildings would work, you were probably referring to the general aesthetic and commercial attractiveness of them, not to whether they’d be suitable for casting as-is. Sorry 

[Mike]

Rhoderic wrote:

EDIT: Realised seconds after posting, when you (Mike) said the alien buildings would work, you were probably referring to the general aesthetic and commercial attractiveness of them, not to whether they’d be suitable for casting as-is. Sorry

 

Indeed, shorten them or make them rounded bumps and you are good to go.

[Stroezie]

Shortening the beams would indeed be one of the things that need to be done to the buildings.

I’m also thinking about adding on a thicker skin of greenstuff/milliput so I could add some bubble windows and rework the entrances a bit.

I’m making some new flyers taking care to leave no small pinholes during construction and I’ve modified the design a little to get rid of most of the undercuts.

As to the minis, I have a pretty good idea of what I have to do when next I sculpt some tentacle dudes to make them more caster friendly but anyways that would definately be a long term project so I still have time to learn more.

On a side note, I’ll tell you a few of my trade secrets, the jet exhausts on the fliers are .144 airrifle pellets and the landing gear/anti grav pods on the bottom are plastic half beads for scrapbooking. Both of these are dirt cheap and easy to source. Would you mind if you ordered a model and got a resin cast of the main body together with these items which you would then have to glue on yourselves?

[Angel Barracks]

Stroezie wrote:

Would you mind if you ordered a model and got a resin cast of the main body together with these items which you would then have to glue on yourselves?

Assuming it said comes as a kit or in X pieces, not in the slightest…
For me it offers more conversion possibility.

[Stroezie]

Ok, so I’ve finished the first sculpts of my remastered chephalopods, the main difference being the supporting tentacles which are now solidly under the head/body and which have gone up from 4 to 6 for a total of 8 tentacles making them true octapods instead of sextapods 

Disclaimer:I tried giving the greens a black wash so they would show up better on the pictures, bad idea, editing software to the rescue.

first two melee armed sculpts

Two ranged

And a leader with a headdress and tentacle band denoting rank

What do you guys( and galls) think?

Also, if you are not a 6mm skirmish nutter like myself, how many different sculpts of a certain type would you expect/want in a basic pack?

Cheers,

Stroezie.

[Mike]

Stroezie wrote:

Also, if you are not a 6mm skirmish nutter like myself, how many different sculpts of a certain type would you expect/want in a basic pack?

Maybe a squad leader and two infantry (one firing and one walking) in a basic pack.
Then a pack of special troopers?

[Guy Farrish]

Love these! (But you know I am a fan of wiggly armed things.)

As for numbers – well they’re octopods and I’m a big fan of even numbers in squads, so 4. A leader and three pbi. And like Mike said a separate heavy/odd weapons pack.

[Author]

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