Tagged: warhammer 40k
07/07/2020 at 02:41 #139836Jacob StauttenerParticipant
It is that time of the cycle again. Games Workshop is coming out with a new edition for their Warhammer 40,000 game with a brand new (and jam packed) starter set.
I left Warhammer long ago in favour of the more affordable options in Indie and Historical gaming. The reason for this was straight up price alone. I never really fell out of love with the models or rules, but instead looked at other games and thought, “I can afford those much better.” Now that GW announced their Indomitus Launch Box for The New 40K, I find myself looking at them again.
In this post, I ponder about whether I want to jump onto the GW bandwagon again. I also discuss whether covering GW could be used as a tool to attract more readers to my site – Must Contain Minis. Come on over and give the article a read through.
Feel free to post comments either here or on the website. If I see good comments here, I will post them over on Must Contain Minis too.
Check out my gaming blog about Indy and Historical Games
https://mustcontainminis.com/08/07/2020 at 23:05 #139969Tony SParticipant
I never really got into GW’s core games of WHFB and 40K, not because of the price, but because of the rules. Never appealed to me, and I tried multiple editions multiple times. I started playing WHFB actually, as a kid with my brother because they were the only miniature rules we knew about. Even then, while he used orcs and dwarves, I used Romans. (Back then, you could design your own troops so historical for me thank you very much)!
Since then, even though I’ve played a few other editions of WHFB and 40K, the rules – in my opinion – just got worse. They started stripping out the interesting bits (like boar’s head formations) and dumbing it down. Note I didn’t say “simplifying”. There are a lot of rules I really enjoy that are simple, but simple does not necessarily mean simplistic. Many simple games require a lot of thinking, decision points and strategy, which is one of the things what I enjoy about gaming. Dumbing down a game merely makes it easier to learn. GW got very good at tarting up the rules, to give the impression that there is strategy involved, but I never noticed any hint of strategy while playing. (Caveat – I didn’t play very often, so I probably missed a few details). But for me, strategy does not mean planning the perfectly points optimized (and possibly beardy) list the night before. Strategy for me involves a certain amount of calculated risk amidst a lot of uncertainty. Again, I play and enjoy historical, so uncertainty is the hallmark of all real warfare. Fog of War and Clausewitzian friction not only is realistic, but creates tension and excitement in a game.
In the last 40K game I played of the latest edition, I was appalled to learn that a single figure (well, a single quite impressively sculpted, painted and priced figure to be sure) rolled a veritable bucket of dice, maybe thirty? Can’t remember the exact figure, but after rolling them, the player got to reroll any ones. And apparently it hit on a 2+. Go do the probabilities – statistically speaking, you are virtually guaranteed to roll the same result every time. That, and the complete lack of friction and fog of war meant the game was just too predictable for my tastes.
And yet…and yet…GW is so damn prevalent in gaming, and I admit a lot of the figures look great, and while I am at my core an historical gamer, I love reading SF and occasionally playing a miniatures SF game. So the solution for me was to play the non-core games. Like Battlefleet Gothic, or Epic:Armageddon, or Bloodbowl, or Necromunda. The latter for me demonstrates the other thing I like about gaming. Necromunda is – in my opinion – a bad tactical one-off game. Just stripped down 40K (at the time – this was the first edition). But add a campaign – which ALWAYS improves ANY game – that created a narrative, a large group of friends and it was a wonderful time. The key point for me was a group of friends having a great time. And honestly that’s why I game. Winning or losing; bah. It’s about meeting and having fun with some friends.
I’m quite lucky in that my group of friends that I game with, also enjoy history and by and large the style of game I like. If they only enjoyed the GW core games, then I’d probably have a lot of 40K and Fantasy armies.
But as they mostly don’t, I’m able to avoid playing them. And saving a ton of money is a nice side benefit. Do you know how many figures I could buy for $600, which is what you say the box contents are worth!? Even if I bought them from Warlord, who recently decided to overprice their figures, I’d still get a ton of historical armies!
For yourself, I’m sure traffic might increase a bit, although you’d be one of many such GW fan sites. and perhaps you would interest, or even show some GW players what the rest of the gaming has to offer. Bolt Action would be an easy jump as it is pretty much the same basic engine as the old familiar GW mechanics…and just the random die draw to determine player order might enough to really intrigue them. Then you could shock them with Chain of Command, or the turnless, rulerless Crossfire!09/07/2020 at 01:24 #139973Andrew BeasleyParticipant
To be honest – not yet.
In a few months you will have to shell out more cash to get the updates after spending more cash to get the current Psychic Awakening rules to update the current codex for your army. I would wait till the ‘phone app (or tablet or web) is out as then the rules should settle down a bit and the bugs worked out. It has always taken a few tournaments to show the ‘killer’ army build that has always plagued the games – with luck GW can correct these electronically quicker than the paper ones have done so far.
If you want to play a few games with minimal expenditure the look at Necromunda or Kill Team – the first is a little more limited on teams where as the latter lets you build lots of skirmish armies at low (well for GW) cost to find the one(s) you like. I would start with the Kill Team core rule book from eBay and a few (maybe 20 at most) proxy figures to get your head around the rules and try different teams out.
You do not need the specific figures, bases, magazine, scenery, dice, cards, cases, paints or flock to get a feeling for the game as long as you can remember what figure is what (the dreaded ‘counts as’ rule) and DO NOT spend more on the elites and commander rules sets – they push you more to the old 8th edition than I could recommend at the moment. At worse you could get the 2019 Kill Team annual that balances a few points BUT the FAQs are FOC on the WWW (wow have a TLA or two).
One thing you have to understand – the big figures (both price and size) dominate the foot troops – its a hero based game even in 9th and that’s why I like the smaller rule set.
You may find posts on da’interweb questioning if Kill Team will survive long term – GW stated that some new things would come out at some point BUT I think it will die a death as it stands because of the small combat patrol rules in 9th. They need more figures = more profit but I’m guessing its still got a good year to 18 months left in it.09/07/2020 at 01:27 #139974Andrew BeasleyParticipant
If I see good comments here, I will post them over on Must Contain Minis too.
With agreement from the author I hope
You have my agreement for this thread if my ravings are of use.09/07/2020 at 01:45 #139975Tony SParticipant
With agreement from the author I hope. You have my agreement for this thread if my ravings are of use.
What he said!09/07/2020 at 01:50 #139976LogainParticipant
Well there is nothing wrong with supporting GW. I, like you abandoned GW long ago because I couldn’t afford the hobby. Now I too play mostly historical and indie games. But I still like the art and some of old games like Space Hulk and Epic.
But like Andrew said above GW has always had great starter sets with tons of high production value components … but it’s designed to get you purchase a lot more expensive products down the line.
If you really like the models go for it.
If you have a lot of potential opponents it would let you play with go for it.
If you don’t mind using them for other games/settings and want to take advantage of the value go for it.
Otherwise invest in something else!09/07/2020 at 10:20 #139983Phil DutréParticipant
Once I was a fan of GW. Not anymore. I don’t have anything against GW, but I’ve simply outgrown them.
Being a fan of GW games is a lot of work: you have to keep up with all the new published materials, worry about the proper miniatures, worry about the “official” rules etc. If you thrive in that sort of wargaming eco-system, you should do it.
On the other hand, if you don’t care for engaging 100% in the GW ecosphere, then why bother? It’s not as if their rules are the pinnacle of wargames development. There are currently far better games out there.
Most wargamers I know (granted, all middle-aged) have grown to a stage in their hobby where they know what they want. They use rules from publisher A, use figures from manufacturers B, C and D, etc. They don’t care anymore about what one specific publisher says you should or shouldn’t do. It’s your hobby, you’re in control, and you decide on what you do and don’t what to use.
Tiny Tin Men Blog: http://snv-ttm.blogspot.com/
Wargaming Mechanics Blog: http://wargaming-mechanics.blogspot.com/22/07/2020 at 05:32 #140820Jacob StauttenerParticipant
Thanks for all of the comments guys. Learned my lesson earlier. I am not going to port these over to MCM.
For me, I think I am going to skip the new boxed set and keep my eye on what they are doing. I am wondering if there will be a regular starter that is more affordable. For now, I have a box of Space Marines to come in for me to test out building and I have a bunch of stuff coming in from Wargames Atlantic.
There is so much out there, but for some reason GW catches my eye every time they release a new starter box of some sort. After 40K, the next thing that might catch my eye by them is the Old World recreation of Warhammer Fantasy.
Check out my gaming blog about Indy and Historical Games
https://mustcontainminis.com/22/07/2020 at 10:58 #140838ThomastonParticipant
Should you feature GW minis to gain more traffic? I don’t know, but I agree with Tony S that you will be another drop in the ocean of websites featuring contents for GW, and a new comer at that. There are bigger, more focused, well established websites and forums that exclusively cover GW. You might gain some traffic but also consider that your existing visitors might also get drawn into GW minis and the smaller companies might loose out to the spiffy, shiney minis GW shovel out each month.
Considering these minis are push fit and not the usual posable ones, and they were probably designed in 3D, the overhead is low until you get to production. The high cost might be because it’s limited run, but recently they’ve anounced it will be made to order since it was sold out so quickly. At the same price of course.
These days I see GW as a sink hole, it draws you in with pretty miniatures but there’s little substance or longivity in the rules. Chances are if you’ve bought into 8th ed, you’ll have to make the decision to continuewith 10th ed and a new updated codex and new minis in a few years time.
I like one of the comment in your link about using Grimdark Future instead. Since you’ve already orderd some minis, it seems like the best way to go and you still could feature a review of the minis without buying into the whole system.
Tired is enough.
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