Home Forums General General A Wargames fenonamumm…

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  • #137513

    With plenty of time for cogitating, I’ve laid one…
    Does this exotic creature exist in real life? A wargamer with no interest in painting and basing figures, building terrain or anything creative attached to our hobby. A bloke who just wants to play wargames, buys everything ready made and painted including figures, and gets to it?

    "Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

    "I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

    #137514
    Mike
    Keymaster

    If you extend that to include women then yes, as I know at least one.
    Just men, not sure.

    #137515

    Cripes, don’t forget yer PC re-trayning Harry, lad…

    Yes Mike, All races, colours, creeds, religions, cults, factions and sexes are included!

    As for myself, ‘just buying it’ would never work. I’ve never used figures I haven’t painted myself. The enjoyment in creating miniature worlds for them to play in is also just as important.

    "Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

    "I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

    #137517
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    I don’t, but not through any ideological position about ‘creativity’.

    Cost would be my main concern – I’ve got  a lot of money tied up in figures – many of which seldom see the light of day – think how silly I’d feel if I had spent four or five times the base cost buying them painted by someone else.

    I am however quite content to buy a board game and play that, no terrain making, no painting, no assembly required.

    There is a creative element to game play even if there is nothing physical to show at the end of the game (unless you class the climactic position as an art form in its own right, however ephemeral?). The act of playing is itself a creative process.

    Are there people who go the whole hog as suggested and just play without the preparatory graft? I’m sure there are.  It depends on your resources and what you want out of wargaming. As a painting collecting thing with a bit of play thrown in or as an adjunct to understanding military history with a bit off fun thrown in? Most of us wander about somewhere in the middle without bothering about it too much.

    I have now officially overstepped my braincell usage limits for the month.

    I shall  go and lie down in a darkened room.

    #137518
    Sane Max
    Participant

    also you might need to extend our Hobby to the RPG people. I know quite a few of them whose total commitment to the artistic side ended when they bought their Pre-Paints from wizzkids. (Or is that Prepaints from Wizz-Kids?)

    But you would expect that. -It’s a real bell curve, one or two at one end who buy, paint, base and varnish their figures, and lovingly place them in a Cabinet to admire and never play with

    And it gets weirder, I don’t think I like painting that much – yet I do it non stop. I paint ‘cos if I don’t I feel funny. (and drink more. and feel funnier).

    And when I think about it, I don’t like gaming that much either. I am certainly rubbish at it, which may be why I am never short of a game. I am the wargames equivalent of the ‘Sure Thing’

    Hang on…. what the hell am I doing this Hobby for?

     

     

    #137523

    That’s funny, I’m the same. If I don’t paint for a day or two i get out of sorts. Then I get painting and get ratty as expectation far exceeds talent!

    "Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

    "I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

    #137524
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    Robin Williams.

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #137525
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    That’s funny, I’m the same. If I don’t paint for a day or two i get out of sorts. Then I get painting and get ratty as expectation far exceeds talent!

    I tried to learn meditation but it never worked. Then it occurred to me that what people say they experience in meditation – floating thoughts, not being attached to them, free form creativity, mindfulness, brain quiet, etc. — is EXACTLY what I think I feel when I paint. So yeah, Harry, my experience is the same: if I don’t paint for a day or two, I get crabby.

    However, I also find that when I do paint, I spend a lot of time just staring at the tings. Anyone else do that?

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #137526
    fairoaks024
    Participant

    Two guys I regularly paint stuff for do that.

    neither of them has ever assembled a model or painted anything.

    I don’t think they are that rare either.

    #137527
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    Also, echoing Sanemax, if I don’t paint…

    Well, back when I was 18, I decided it was no longer “cool” to do kiddie things like game and paint. So I stopped. And that is the one time in my life where I got really, almost uncontrollably, into booze and weed. I decided gaming was healthier and cheaper.

    Before you laugh, this was in the States in the 1980s, remember, before being a nerd was cool and before gaming went through its regenesis as a respectable hobby. And there’s really no tradition of adult male eccentrics in the U.S. Free range crazies, yes, but  normal blokes who do shit like trainspotting…? Not so much. So it was kind of a stigmatizing thing for an adult to be doing, especially a PC lefty veggitabletarian peace marching adult. There were a couple of adults in my gaming circle who were punks, but that was it. Everyone else was either an old hippy, an old Vietnam vet, or the kind of person you find these days hanging out on the Miniatures Site That Shall Not Be Named.

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #137528
    ian pillay
    Participant

    Not for me. The creative part of the hobby is the best bit. If it was already done for me then I guess I would play chess an awful lot more 😉

    Tally-Ho!

    #137529
    Sane Max
    Participant

    “Me and a mate were playing chess once, and he said ‘Let’s make things interesting!’ So we stopped playing chess.”

    I have to assume, I have no idea if I am correct, that there are still people out there who buy those ‘Make You Own Chess Set’ things and paint them up. I bet a lot of them might give proper wargaming a go if they knew it existed.

    But it might corrupt them ‘I say…. In real life horses don’t move in an L-shape – we need to change that rule…’

     

    #137531
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    What do we think of as ‘creative’?

    (I lied about going to lie down).

    Is it the physical production of something? Or is it the intellectual or emotional event in the brain?

    Did the Young British Artists create by thinking and getting someone else to ‘do’? Could the technical assemblers have done without the artist? Possibly/probably. But did they?

    Could the artists have done what the technical people did? Probably not in the case of shark and cow dismemberment but certainly in messed up bed construction (Emin is an excellent draugthsperson as well). But where is the creative spark?

    Is ‘the creative side’ of wargaming confined to painting and terrain assembly? Obviously not – someone had to design, sculpt and produce the figures. If you don’t do that yourself have you abandoned creativity?

    No.

    If you do no physical production does the game make itself?

    No.

    Rules?

    Write your own? Most of don’t. Some of us do a bit.

    Bu the scenario, the decisions we take, the set up, the interactions, are products of creative thinking.

    Is a Rembrandt a Rembrandt if he didn’t grind his own pigments, mix them with the medium, apply the base coat, paint the main areas but only thought of the idea, made the initial sketch and put in a couple of finishing brush strokes?

    Where is the creativity? In the physical actions? In the concept? In both?

    One of the unsung wargamers in literature is Billy Liar*, no toys required; but he ran a country and fought many wars in his head.

    Now there’s creativity.

     

    *Not a role model – he let Julie Christie leave town on her own. Idiot!

    #137532
    Autodidact-O-Saurus
    Participant

    I think they’re called board gamers.

    But then I had to look up ‘fenonamumm’. Couldn’t find anything on dictionary.com. Then said it out loud… doh!

     

     

    Self taught, persistently behind the times, never up to date. AKA ~ jeff
    More verbosity: http://petiteguerre.blogspot.com/

    #137534
    Steve Johnson
    Participant

    Half the fun is painting the figures, scratch building terrain etc. I do know gamers who will buy in pre-painted stuff, but not whole armies, terrain etc. Mind you a friend used to paint two forces for a chap in the US, so maybe he went the whole hog and bought in terrain etc?

    #137535
    warwell
    Participant

    I do buy and paint because what I really want is not otherwise available (at least at a cost I consider acceptable).

    However, if I could, I would just buy everything ready-made so I can focus on gaming.

    #137545
    jeffers
    Participant

    I knew a chap about 30-odd years ago who had two armies – French Nappy and Ancient something (?) – each of which fitted in a steel filing cabinet drawer and was purchased painted. Never saw him supply anything else but he used these figures virtually every club night and was happy to lend them out. Very nice chap and everybody was happy to play with him; he just didn’t like the painting/modelling aspect.

    I love the modelling aspect more than the gaming. Wargaming is a broad church and I think the richer for it.

    More nonsense on my blog: http://battle77.blogspot.com/

    #137548
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    I have a friend that is big into Flames of War and Infinity.  He commissions others to build and paint his stuff as he has limited hand use, but can pick up squad bases and 28mm figures with concentration.  He loves to game, and recently is trying to rope me into playing some boardgames online (he cannot handle the small punched pieces, so this is a godsend to him.  We played Catan and had a good time).  For him, the creativity comes from expressing how he would like his troops to look.  This exactness and verbose bit of instruction has exasperated some painters as, though they are working as a service to the figure owners, an awful lot of them seem to want to do their own thing.  Luckily he now has a “stable” of people he uses whom understand him.

    Dude has just about all of XXX Corps for Market Garden, let me tell ya…

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #137551
    Ruarigh
    Participant

    I have a lot of respect for those who enjoy the painting and building side of things, but I really only see them as a necessary evil. I would happily buy my figures and terrain painted for the most part, if I had the means to do so. My preferred creative element is the construction of stories and scenarios around the games I play. That said, I do occasionally sit down to paint or build terrain and really enjoy it, but those moments are rare.

    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    https://emidsvikings.ac.uk/
    https://roderickdale.co.uk/

    #137587
    Northern Monkey
    Participant

    There a couple of members at my club who never paint their own stuff, they are quite happy to send it all off to be painted, and whilst I don’t dislike the hobby side of things as in painting, creating terrain etc, if I had unlimited funds I would most likely pay someone else to do it all for me especially my 28mm stuff which I hate painting

    My attempt at a Blog: http://ablogofwar.blogspot.co.uk/

    #137603
    irishserb
    Participant

    I gamed with a guy at a convention several years ago, who after the game, struck up conversation about how much he enjoyed gaming, then shared that he would never buy/build/paint, etc.  He said he just goes to conventions and plays, gets to have all of the fun, while the “suckers” do all of the work.  I asked him if that was how he perceived the GMs, he smiled a big smile, said, “yep”, got up and left.  Takes all types.

    As for me, I’m into the whole deal, I paint, build, and play, even master and cast some of my own figs.  While I am okay using someone else’s troops in a game that they are running, I can’t use troops painted by someone else in a game that I’m running.  I must paint my own figs or they aren’t “my” troops.  I even feel that somehow I’ve “cheated” if I buy buildings and terrain pieces manufactured by others, though time constraints force me to do so.  For me, the game is just a part of the creative process.

    #137605
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    With plenty of time for cogitating, I’ve laid one… Does this exotic creature exist in real life? A wargamer with no interest in painting and basing figures, building terrain or <em class=”d4pbbc-italic”>anything creative attached to our hobby. A bloke who just <em class=”d4pbbc-italic”>wants to play wargames, buys everything ready made and painted including figures, and gets to it?

     

    Yep. Me pretty much.

    I hate painting the little sods. Unfortunately ‘er indoors might notice if I wasted more money buying ready painted ready made 🙂

     

    …and I can’t stand Emin’s ‘work’. Saatchi must be art blind*

     

    *it’s like being tone deaf, but different…

     

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #137609
    willz
    Participant

    Very interesting posts.

    I paint my own figures and enjoy the modelling aspect of the hobby and the creative process, though I have often wondered if all I bought was pre-painted armies would it be cheaper in the long long.  My train of thought is buy two armies for the following Medieval, SYW, AWI, Napoleonic WW2.  Say of 6-10 units/battalions each.  You would not have to buy reference books, modelling stuff, paints and all the other paraphernalia we spend money on for wargaming, just buy the pre-painted and made armies, (Also terrain and buildings).

    Which one is the more cost effective? do it yourself or get someone to do it for you?  If I won the lottery I would pay top dollar to have several armies painted for me but would something be lost to me in the hobby not doing it myself?

    If I was coming to the hobby today for the first time would I pay someone to paint all my stuff, I would be very tempted.  As I said I enjoy the modelling and painting side of the hobby and game very little, though I would like to game more.

    Maybe I will do a price comparison on self built and painted and  paying someone to do it for you or I could use my time to paint more soldiers.  Interesting ponders, hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    #137611
    Sane Max
    Participant

    If you get paid enough for your Job, it probably works out cheaper to get them painted for you. That will leave you an enormous amount for free time to….stare at the wall? Play Squash? Take up Morris Dancing perhaps. You could then pay someone else to Morris Dance for you.

     

    We may as well do something as we shuffle toward the grave, painting little toy soldiers is hardly the worst PassTime.

     

     

     

     

    #137613
    willz
    Participant

    Here’s a thought, with the advancement of 3D printing it won’t be many years before we can buy pre-coloured 3D printed figures.  Will the hobby change when you can shop on line for a one off code for a ready to print and play army.  Take it down to your local 3D print shop or do it at home, print, maybe a ink wash, base and your armies ready to play.

     

    #137614
    willz
    Participant

    If you get paid enough for your Job, it probably works out cheaper to get them painted for you. That will leave you an enormous amount for free time to….stare at the wall? Play Squash? Take up Morris Dancing perhaps. You could then pay someone else to Morris Dance for you. We may as well do something as we shuffle toward the grave, painting little toy soldiers is hardly the worst PassTime.

    You can’t Morris Dance at the moment 2 meter rule.

    So we will just have to paint the toy soldiers.

    #137621
    Sane Max
    Participant

    You can’t Morris Dance at the moment 2 meter rule. So we will just have to paint the toy soldiers.

     

    It prevents Morris Dancing? Someone get me a undercooked Bat.

    #137632
    deephorse
    Participant

    If I buy a plastic kit of a Panzer III, assemble it and paint it dark grey, am I being creative?  Someone else designed the real Panzer III, someone else made the master for the kit, someone else produced the kit, someone else designed and printed the instructions I have to follow, someone else decided that real Panzer IIIs were to be painted dark grey and I’m just copying what they did.  So in making my Panzer III (or anything else historical for that matter) am I really being creative, or am I just being led by the nose towards the final outcome?

    I’ve painted my own figures and vehicles, bought pre-painted figures and vehicles, and have had figures I’ve bought professionally painted for me.  I have a batch of B.E.F. and French figures under the professional brush right now.  For me the objective is to get the toys on the table and play out the scenarios that are constantly circling round in my brain.  That is the creative part of wargaming that I enjoy the most.  I think it was Guy Farrish that mentioned this somewhere above, and I am in agreement with him on that.

    Trust science, not the scientists.

    #137648
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    Rather depends which Ausführung Panzer III it is. Later models weren’t panzer grey 😉

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

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