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  • #97399
    Avatar photoMike
    Keymaster

    Just saw an advert for a motorised skateboard with space for a golf bag, to make your golfing more efficient, immediately I thought, why would you want your hobby to be more efficient?
    Then I wondered what that even means…

    I think I like sometimes doing stuff the old fashioned way.
    Some of my 15mm buildings were made very inefficiently, I hand carved each brick and then built them brick by brick.
    Much easier to have used some embossed plasticard for sure, but I liked doing it that way, it felt better.

    I am pretty sure my painting could be more efficient too.

    Anyway, do you ever think about making your hobbying more efficient?

    #97402
    Avatar photoDeleted User
    Member

    There’s an old Isaac Azimov story that has a potential invasion force approaching earth & threatening destruction “unless you are efficient”.

    It turns out “efficient” means society is run by computers.

    So, in our hobby, efficiency might mean use of computers.

    I store my army lists & OOBs on my hard drive, as well as scenarios & maps I’ve used & may use again.

    I have a couple of rule sets on my IPad for reference during a game.

    I print flags & unit identifying labels on my printer.

    And I peruse the offerings of various manufacturers online & send them orders via email, using Paypal.

    I think I am very “efficient”.

     

    donald

    #97403
    Avatar photoWhirlwind
    Participant

    Anyway, do you ever think about making your hobbying more efficient?

    Sure, in the sense of getting the most of what I want to get from the hobby from the least expenditure of time and effort.  I don’t want to buy stuff that I will never get round to doing anything with it.  I don’t want to spend a lot of time painting models and making terrain that I never use.  I don’t want to have so much stuff that it gets in the way and I never get round to using it because I have 20 things ahead of it on the list.  I like to find ways to paint stuff as quickly as possible to a standard that pleases me (but not below that).  I don’t want to keep games and rules that I know I won’t particularly miss if I never play them again.  Does that count?

     

     

    #97408
    Avatar photoRhoderic
    Member

    Ways I consider myself efficient:

    • I’ve rationalised my painting style to a consistent, adequate tabletop standard that dispenses with all highlight layers but one.
    • I’ve started keeping spreadsheets to keep track of projects and miniatures.
    • I often plan my purchases to get the “starting pits” finished for various projects I know I want to do at a later time, so I don’t have to worry about miniatures having gone OOP once I actually need them.
    • When buying and making terrain and scenery, I do it with an eye to having it be multi-use in terms of scale and settings.

    Ways I consider myself inefficient:

    • I experiment a lot with terrain-building techniques, with the full intention of throwing the pieces in the garbage before they’re ever finished. They’re just for figuring out the best way to do things for later.
    • I similarly experiment with colours on figures which I then strip again. While I have my painting style well formalised, I still constantly struggle with colour choices. No matter how much I try, I don’t seem to have an artists’ eye for colours or a good grip on colour theory.
    • I have way, way, way too many projects. I know I do. But I don’t care. I’m happy this way.
    • I also buy quite a lot of newer miniatures that are not in probable danger of going OOP any time soon. I just want to have them and to support manufacturers that keep growing the hobby, even though the more “efficient” thing would be to divert my entire budget to snapping up miniatures I want that are in danger of becoming unavailable in the near-ish future.

    So, a mix of both.

    EDIT: To answer the original question of whether I think about ways to make myself more efficient, I don’t anymore. I’ve rationalised everything I want to rationalise, and any remaining ways of making myself more efficient entail sacrifices that I feel would compromise my enjoyment of the hobby too much. But I won’t backtrack on the rationalisations I’ve already made, such as with my painting method.

    #97410
    Avatar photoNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    It’s a hobby, there are no deadlines. I leave efficiency at work, my hobbies are a glorious, disorganised muddle.

    Which is just how it should be.

    🙂

    Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

    #97411
    Avatar photokyoteblue
    Participant

    I’m all over the place…

    #97417
    Avatar photoPrivate Snafu
    Participant
    • I similarly experiment with colours on figures which I then strip again. While I have my painting style well formalised, I still constantly struggle with colour choices. No matter how much I try, I don’t seem to have an artists’ eye for colours or a good grip on colour theory.

    Do you have a color wheel?  That helps me a lot.

    ___________________
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    https://sites.google.com/site/miniaturemachinations

    #97430
    Avatar photoDeleted User
    Member

    If only I could work less and play more I’d be more efficient at my hobbies. I hate having to take time off sculpting and paint to eat, shower and all the other nasty stuff. But yeah, work just eats into my time everyday.

    Come to think of it, browsing this forum and replying is also making me inefficient.

    #97431
    Avatar photoRhoderic
    Member
    • I similarly experiment with colours on figures which I then strip again. While I have my painting style well formalised, I still constantly struggle with colour choices. No matter how much I try, I don’t seem to have an artists’ eye for colours or a good grip on colour theory.

    Do you have a color wheel? That helps me a lot.

    TBH I’m not 100% clear on what precisely a colour wheel does, in an advanced sense. But I’ve seen them around and have often meant to delve into the matter.

    #97432
    Avatar photoAutodidact-O-Saurus
    Participant

    I’ve found that I remove frustration from the hobby if I am organized. There’s nothing more frustrating than feeling like I want to work on Persians (because I’ve noticed that horrible, horrible Alexander the Great movie is available on Netflix) but #~*$&! I can’t find them! Consequently, when I feel like working on a particular set of figures I consult a spreadsheet where I log all my figures and in which drawer they are stored. I also get frustrated if I never get anything finished. So for now I’ve set my goal of getting a couple Basic Impetus armies completed. I’ve scaled down the size of my projects to avoid that particular frustration. Is that efficiency? Or is that just optimizing my enjoyment? Take your pick!

    Self taught, persistently behind the times, never up to date. AKA ~ jeff
    More verbosity: http://petiteguerre.blogspot.com/

    #97433
    Avatar photoThaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    Heaven’s no! The hobby is my excuse to be gloriously inefficient!

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #97438
    Avatar photoMartinR
    Participant

    I find a certain degree of efficiency helps me get the most out of the limited time I have available for painting and wargaming.  This mainly relates to how I organise stuff for storage and transport, as well as the project management aspects of buying, building and painting.

    Work and real life may be chaos, but my little lead and plastic guys are very models of agile product development and lean manufacturing processes., both of which give me more time to read and play.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #97440
    Avatar photoPrivate Snafu
    Participant
    • I similarly experiment with colours on figures which I then strip again. While I have my painting style well formalised, I still constantly struggle with colour choices. No matter how much I try, I don’t seem to have an artists’ eye for colours or a good grip on colour theory.

    Do you have a color wheel? That helps me a lot.

    TBH I’m not 100% clear on what precisely a colour wheel does, in an advanced sense. But I’ve seen them around and have often meant to delve into the matter.

    Get one. You will spend less time getting the colors wrong.  Search Color wheel on Amazon.  Should come up in the first few results.

    You can spin it around to play with different combos that look good.

     

    ___________________
    http://moveshootassault.blogspot.com
    https://sites.google.com/site/miniaturemachinations

    #97453
    Avatar photodeephorse
    Participant
    • I similarly experiment with colours on figures which I then strip again. While I have my painting style well formalised, I still constantly struggle with colour choices. No matter how much I try, I don’t seem to have an artists’ eye for colours or a good grip on colour theory.

    Do you have a color wheel? That helps me a lot.

    TBH I’m not 100% clear on what precisely a colour wheel does, in an advanced sense. But I’ve seen them around and have often meant to delve into the matter.

    Get one. You will spend less time getting the colors wrong. Search Color wheel on Amazon. Should come up in the first few results. You can spin it around to play with different combos that look good.

     

    I too was wondering what use a colour wheel would be in my painting?  I play exclusively historical games, and so I can’t see what a colour wheel would give me that my extensive (and collected at vast expense!!) library wouldn’t.  A colour wheel doesn’t know the colour of any tank or uniform, and using colours that look good rather than look accurate is not the direction I want to go in.  Granted, if your interests are Sci-Fi or Fantasy etc. then a colour wheel may help you, but it’s not for me.  Sorry Private Snafu.

    Play is what makes life bearable - Michael Rosen

    #97458
    Avatar photoRhoderic
    Member

    I too was wondering what use a colour wheel would be in my painting? I play exclusively historical games, and so I can’t see what a colour wheel would give me that my extensive (and collected at vast expense!!) library wouldn’t. A colour wheel doesn’t know the colour of any tank or uniform, and using colours that look good rather than look accurate is not the direction I want to go in. Granted, if your interests are Sci-Fi or Fantasy etc. then a colour wheel may help you, but it’s not for me. Sorry Private Snafu.

    For me, part of the problem is maintaining “consistency of tones”, especially with figures that are supposed to look more down-to-earth, such as historicals and pseudo-historicals. I often end up with paintjobs where, to me, one or two colours seem to stand out as representing a different “colouring style” / palette than the rest of the figure. I like a certain mellow come-togetherness in my ideal paintjobs, though I can’t always achieve it.

    I’m not sure whether a colour wheel can help me with that particular problem (maybe, maybe not), but I’m convinced enough to try one out anyway, just for getting those nice combos on figures of a more fantastical style.

    Looking at the “master” painters of this hobby (the Kev Dallimore, Steve Dean, LAF type), it seems to me that even when they’re painting historical figures such as swashbucklers, interwar adventurers, samurai or feudal knights, they have an eye for picking colours that complement each other perfectly. I don’t just mean hues, but also saturation and other considerations like that. I’ll probably never master palettes like they have.

    #97465
    Avatar photoPrivate Snafu
    Participant

    The color wheel was extensively used for me to paint these guys.  It can’t be used alone.  I first researched what fabric colors where available then created the schemes based on what I thought would be the frequency of the fabrics and colors.  The color wheel helps with picking the eye pleasing combos from the period colors available.

    Read about them here: http://moveshootassault.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2018-02-03T01:11:00-07:00&max-results=1

    These guys benefited from the wheel as well.  I’m terrible at color theory but there are ways to overcome it.

    Here: http://moveshootassault.blogspot.com/2015/04/woodland-warrior-villagers.html


    @deephorse

    You don’t need to be sorry.  If you play historicals, such as myself, most of the time there probably is an Osprey that gets you most of the way there plus Google images.  But if its something that is lost in time or vague then you will still have a lot of decision making to do.  Rhoderic’s comment was not really about when you had all the colors already determined such as standardized uniforms.

    I swear by the color wheel.  It has taken my painting to places I had only wished for.  Here is a WIP.

    ___________________
    http://moveshootassault.blogspot.com
    https://sites.google.com/site/miniaturemachinations

    #97467
    Avatar photoRhoderic
    Member

    Ooh, I remember being especially taken with the colours on those Saxons the first time you posted that photo, Snafu. They have precisely the kind of palette consistency I’ve been talking about. I’m definitely getting a colour wheel now.

    Apologies to Mike if this is somewhat off-topic. In a way, though, I think it’s still on topic as colour wheels can very much be efficiency-maximising tools, at least for people like myself who have a tendency of spending too much time experimenting with palettes, and stripping paintjobs when the palette ends up looking a bit “off”.

    #97470
    Avatar photoNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    Straying even further off topic, the one thing about uniforms is that they aren’t. Just sayin’ 😉

     

    Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

    #97475
    Avatar photoRhoderic
    Member

    Straying even further off topic, the one thing about uniforms is that they aren’t. Just sayin’ 😉

    I’ve painted all of one figure in what’s supposed to be feldgrau. I know feldgrau isn’t just feldgrau – I’ve seen that photo we’ve all seen of the many feldgrau tunics arrayed next to each other, each a different colour. Even so, my figure’s uniform just turned out too… chic. An overly saturated teal, like. I might have been using a teal paint from a fantasy-oriented range (it certainly wasn’t called “feldgrau”, as I don’t own any paint so specific), but I did grey it down heavily by mixing in quite a bit of black and white. Still misjudged the degree of colour-saturation. This is what I mean by my not having an eye for these things, at least not while mid-painting.

    If anyone is wondering, I don’t only have saturated fantasy-oriented paints, I also have plenty of VMC, CDA Military/WW2 and other unsaturated, historical-oriented ones.

    #97481
    Avatar photoPrivate Snafu
    Participant

    Uniforms always seem easier to paint because you can usually find lots of nice pictures and blogs where people give their formulas.  Tints, Tones, Shades of early Persians who could really say?  I suspect most folks paint too colorfully.  I don’t blame them or mind.  It looks good on the table or display. I doubt heartily all the fancy and intricate shield designs of the dark ages where the norm.  Archaeologists and historians tend to dig up a relic and that gets modeled as standard when we really don’t know the frequency of what the common soldier looked like.

    Monochromatic schemes are fun to paint and forgiving.  Went too light or dark in a spot, no problem, its a shadow or a glint of light.

    One last thing.  When you use the color wheel you are not only trying to make each figure have a harmonious color scheme but you want to be harmonious with the feller he/she is standing next to or grouped with.  The unit above is designed to be in the orange to yellow-orange to yellow analogous scheme while the individual figures have a mixture of schemes some as analogous some with various complimentary schemes.   You’ll see when you get the wheel.

    Let us know how it turns out.

    ___________________
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    https://sites.google.com/site/miniaturemachinations

    #97483
    Avatar photoNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    I can’t really see Erik saying to Wulf, “Don’t stand next to me in the shieldwall, we ‘re not harmonious. Your grey-blue tunic will clash horribly with my russet red leggings” 🙂

    Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

    #97485
    Avatar photoGuy Farrish
    Participant

    If only Mr ‘I’ve got a red shield and I’m going to use it whatever you say’ had listened to Erik: clash clash clash!

    shield wall

    #97488
    Avatar photoPrivate Snafu
    Participant

    Red-orange is the complimentary color to blue green so the shield does not look out of place.  If you throw in the yellow then its close to a red/yellow/blue triad.  There will always be the guy who has no style.

    ___________________
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    https://sites.google.com/site/miniaturemachinations

    #97489
    Avatar photoRhoderic
    Member

    If only Mr ‘I’ve got a red shield and I’m going to use it whatever you say’ had listened to Erik: clash clash clash! shield wall

    My problem is usually more like this:

    Garish shield

    …OK, maybe not quite that extreme, but you get the point.

    #97492
    Avatar photoPrivate Snafu
    Participant

    One possibility is that you are not thinning your paint enough.  If you put it all on in one layer then if it’s the wrong tint/tone/shade you have to repaint.  If you put it on thin you can correct.  Of course when it comes to efficiency thinning paints or basically more work on painting decreases it.  Laffer curve.

    What you need to do is get it right the first time, so I would suggest also picking up “Pocket Guide To Mixing Color”. I don’t use this much because the shading comes more naturally to me, but I wouldn’t be without it.  Both the color wheel and guide together shouldn’t run more than a single Osprey.

    Sorry for the complete Hijack, Mike!

    ___________________
    http://moveshootassault.blogspot.com
    https://sites.google.com/site/miniaturemachinations

    #97495
    Avatar photoMartinR
    Participant

    I rather think Ragnar “descendant of Odin” is always going to have a different coloured shield to everyone else. He’s also the only one with a crust punk dreadlock hairdo.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #97505
    Avatar photoNorm S
    Participant

    I see efficiency for me would be best served by reducing my on-line presence by say an hour a day and doing something ‘real’ with my wargaming instead, such as getting some kit glued up, primed and making better progress with painting.

    So less ‘flop down time and more ‘doing stuff’.

     

    #97526
    Avatar photoPhil Dutré
    Participant

    Hobbies should not be efficient. That’s what jobs are for 🙂

    #97531
    Avatar photoDarkest Star Games
    Participant

    I am probably the least efficient hobbyist.  It’s rare for me to finish a full project (parts of, yes!) and it always seems just when I have made time to paint, etc, something important comes up (like one of the kids just HAVING to go to the mall or she’ll just DIE…).  It’s the interruptions that kill the progress.

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #97533
    Avatar photoRuarigh
    Participant

    Efficiency? Yeah, I’ve heard of that. If I were more efficient, I might be more engaged with wargaming as a hobby. I’m proper off it at the moment, and part of that is because I keep failing to finish projects. It’s amazing how actually finishing one project gives you the impetus to get on with the next.

    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    https://roderickdale.co.uk/
    https://emidsvikings.ac.uk/

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