Ancient Wargaming and Terrain (or lack of it)

[James (olicana) Roach]

For years, I used the 2 x 2 foot static grass tiles by TSS for my base board. There was the static grassed green side, of course, but I painted and stippled the blank side in household emulsion to do a ‘desert arid terrain’.

Works just fine. You can see both sides of the tiles in the pic below. It also shows the green side squexed for Commands and Colors. These days, I use a big green rattle can sprayed snooker baize for my ‘normal’ green table because it makes doing big hills easier.

 

 

My whoring and daubing:
http://olicanalad.blogspot.co.uk/

[Simon Miller]

I have a set of green flocked boards that I use for Northern Europe and another set of dusty grey-brown boards (my Zama boards) that I use for the south.   The minis are on grey brown bases with clumps of grass and look OK with both.

re Trebian above, I was taking pics today of the Lake Trasimene area with a future game in mind.   by the lake, there were many more Italian girls in bikinis than I had expected to see from accounts of the battle.  ;-).   Also far more trees on the hills.  Unless the terrain has changed (always possible) it would have been very easy to conceal a dozen Carthaginian armies in the area, and very easy for them to approach the road under cover.  There would also have been a substantial marshy shoreline with reed banks behind the Romans.  A terrain-rich battlefield!

[Steve Burt]

Bruneval raid, showing how the grass tiles can be used to form a depression and a coast area

Desert terrain (in this case, Safi, 1942), again with coast line

And finally winter terrain (Vaagso raid).

 

The flat tiles and edge pieces are pretty versatile

[Trebian]

Simon,

Understand your problems. Did anyone object to you photographing their girlfriend?

As for the masses of terrain, – it’s exactly the sort of place a smart general would not chose to fight against a good opponent, – unless he’s laying the ambush!

Trebian

 

 

 

[Patrice]

Steve Burt wrote:

the cats took it as an invitation for one to go under the cloth while the other pounced from the top. This is not so good for the terrain

Obviously. Cats are not so good for the terrain.

So I did try another idea:

…use the cats for terrain.

But then you get another problem: it’s not so good for the miniatures.

“AAaaargh, an earthquake!”

 

 

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[Frog]

Good one, Patrice!

 

I can’t even begin to count the number of miniatures I have with a cat hair permanently varnished onto them.

Bunch of monkeys on your ceiling, sir!

[Howard Whitehouse]

Bravo!  Kudos!

I do all my own stunts.

[kyoteblue]

Ah cats….My cat Fred has no interest in my figures but does like to sleep on my hills if I leave them out…

[Frog]

My cat Lucky (my avatar) likes to chew the bristles off of paint brushes.

Bunch of monkeys on your ceiling, sir!

[Kitty Hay-Whitton]

Offhand…the Sambre, Trasimene, the Jaxartes, the Hydaspes, Thermopylae, Granicus, Heaven knows how many hill and valley actions in the retreat of the Ten Thousand, Ilipa, Baecula…certainly many armies loved an open field (my wife asks nothing more than a light cavalry force and an open plain), but there were a few exceptions over the millennia.

[Sane Max]

‘Holy Thread Necromancy Batman!’

I don’t like TOO Much terrain, my old head always struggles remembering ‘Do AUX move normally in woods? Can those cavalry even ENTER the wood?’ but that’s largely ’cause I play too many different systems I think.

[ian pillay]

Mick Sayce wrote:

Teutoberger Wald had a few trees scattered about if memory serves.  ; )

😂 I was thinking the same thing.

Tally-Ho! Check out my blog at…..
http://steelcitywargaming.wordpress.com/

[Tony S]

Many years ago, due to a horrible lack of opponents (as in, none) I would enter DBA tournaments just to face a real human.   It was first edition, and if I recall correctly the terrain rules were very loose and relied somewhat on both players being gentlemen or women.  You’d think Barker would have thought that assumption through a bit more, having done WRG Ancients since time immemorial.

I found it interesting when I placed lots of terrain, especially in the middle of the board, because I like that in a wargame.  I found that players didn’t know how to handle such complications.  Seems most of the tournament players like open spaces, where their maximized armies (admittedly more difficult in DBA given the lack of points to exploit) could function.  Woods and bad going would usually be in the corners.

I quite like the challenge that terrain brings to a battle – gives it character!

[Cyrus]

Terrain that looks good does make a game more interesting but a lot of tournaments suffer from the dreaded green felt or lurid green boards!

[Rod Robertson]

Wow, this is an old thread! Terrain is often viewed as an impediment to smooth gaming in ancient battles. I like challenging games where terrain shapes the battlefield. It’s a great equaliser for armies which have lighter and more irregular troops dominating their forces. I like having significant terrain features in some part of the central space of a wargames table. It gives my Elamites a fighting chance against my Assyrians, Babylonians and Skythians. It gives my Iberian Spanish a chance against my Polybian Romans. Terrain is good.

Cheers and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

 

[Kitty Hay-Whitton]

I find Iberians need little help from terrain against republican Romans!

[Rod Robertson]

Kitty Hay-Whitton wrote:

I find Iberians need little help from terrain against republican Romans!

Kitty Hay-Whitton:

This I have not found, at least using DBx style rules. Spanish Auxillia and Psiloi do not fair well in open ground against Roman Legionaries and their allies, in my experience. What is your “secret sauce” for success/survival with the Iberian Spaniards in open ground?

Cheers, be well and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

[Phil Dutré]

Terrain density and specific rules also are closely linked. Most rulesets are written with the assumption that there will be a certain terrain density, although this is rarely mentioned explicitly.

Ancients wargaming – apart from the historical context – is/was heavily influenced by DBx, which regulated terrain (at least in the tournament format) very strictly.

[Kitty Hay-Whitton]

It’s been my experience that the cavalry outnumber the Roman stuff, so flanks are usually menaced, skirmisher foot evade legionaries and carve up Roman light foot, and the scutarii are in with a pretty good chance of breaking through. When the Romans win, and it does happen, it’s about using terrain themselves to receive charges while on higher ground or with flanks resting on a village or stream, and their better responses to commands. But I don’t play any of the DBx family any more, and haven’t for years, so that may be relevant.

What the Hell, they’re both armies you can love even when they lose.

[Tony S]

Ancients wargaming – apart from the historical context – is/was heavily influenced by DBx, which regulated terrain (at least in the tournament format) very strictly.

Can’t argue with that, although I’d suggest that it goes back further, and that all the WRG Ancients rules influenced a lot of their contemporary rulesets.

But I’d say that DBA (except for the first edition) and DBR actually create more realistic tables than most, because of their random placements.  Again, historical refights excepted, I’ve noticed over the years that where players simply put a table together, it usually ends up symmetrical and “fair” because neither player wishes to take advantage.

The  Phil Barker sets can produce some really interesting terrain, which can heavily influence both the initial deployments and the battles themselves.  I’ve sometimes simply used the DBA terrain rules to create a table for use in other games.

[MartinR]

I mainly play CnC Ancients, Lost Battles, or scenarios using the OBs and terrain from Lost Battles.

Plenty of terrain in those scenarios, depending, and where there isn’t, a bit of scatter terrain goes a long way.

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

[Paul Howard]

Does anybody know where to get 25mm scale bamboo forests? I understand that both India and Russia, as well as China and Japan have lots of bamboo, and my Han, Mongols, Scythians, Ninjas, and Revolting Peasants would all appreciate being able to maneuver and ambush with them.  Also, since bamboo, rice straw, and gourd fields were important for other reasons.

 

[Mike]

Paul Howard wrote:

Does anybody know where to get 25mm scale bamboo forests?

Is this article any good?

LINK

[Rod Robertson]

Kitty Hay-Whitton wrote:

What the Hell, they’re both armies you can love even when they lose.

Kitty Hay-Whitton:

You are so right there!

Cheers, be well and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

[Rod Robertson]

Paul Howard wrote:

Does anybody know where to get 25mm scale bamboo forests? I understand that both India and Russia, as well as China and Japan have lots of bamboo, and my Han, Mongols, Scythians, Ninjas, and Revolting Peasants would all appreciate being able to maneuver and ambush with them. Also, since bamboo, rice straw, and gourd fields were important for other reasons.

Paul H.:

Each bamboo shoot is about 6 cm long and you get 120 shoots per package.

Cheers, be well and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

[Rod Robertson]

Ahh, the link above is not to the page I wanted. This shows 8-12 cm bamboo shoots. I dunno what happened.

[Kitty Hay-Whitton]

Pretty bamboos, but I don’t see them on the steppes for the Scythians.

Modellers may like to know that the stems can be the familiar slightly ochre-tinted yellow, or a strong green.

[kyoteblue]

I need the bamboo for Viet Nam…and WW2.

[Kitty Hay-Whitton]

You stupid woman! Can you not see zat ze bamboos are to ‘ide from ze Gestapo officers? Michelle and I were just testing zem!

[Author]

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