Home Forums Horse and Musket General Horse and Musket Anyone for Rebels and Patriots?

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  • #107951
    Avatar photoOB
    Participant

    I’ve been looking forward to the release of the Rebels and Patriots rules and while I waited I did a little preparation.

    Bedouin

    Mamluks

    As you can see there’s not much North American about these lads but the authors of Rebels and Patriots believe they will work well outside of their intended theatre.

    Demi Brigade

    So I thought why not Napoleon in Egypt?  These are biggies (18mm) from Lancashire Games.

    https://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com/

    OB
    http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

    #107952
    Avatar photokyoteblue
    Participant

    Great looking figures, I have 2 copies of Rebels and Patriots on order and French and Indian wars figures ready.

    #107959
    Avatar photoOB
    Participant

    Cheers KB.  I’ve high hopes of Rebels and Patriots I’ll use them for the US Mexican War and the Crimean War too.

    OB
    http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

    #107960
    Avatar photokyoteblue
    Participant

    Thought about going back and doing some ACW as well. But I just ordered the Cruel Seas starter..

    #107974
    Avatar photoOB
    Participant

    I’ve got a bag of Battle Honours ACW which are too big to fit with my QRF ACW armies.  Very nice figures though.  I’ve also got some Papal Zouaves that don’t look like the originals but with a little work could do for Canadians at Ridgeway.  Size wise they match with the Battle Honours ACW.  So that’s a thought.

    OB
    http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

    #108002
    Avatar photovtsaogames
    Participant

    I read one AAR of a French and Indian War game. http://25yearsofminis.blogspot.com/2018/01/play-testing-rebels-patriots-new.html

    A large band of Mohawks charged French regulars in a strong defensive position, were repulsed and charged again, breaking through. Those are cinematic Indians. The usual tactics of actual woodland Indians were to ambush if they could, otherwise snipe from behind trees until the enemy showed signs of distress and then charge. They would also attack individuals and small groups who were reloading. If they started taking heavy losses they would call it a day. They rarely charged troops behind cover, or even steady troops in the open. When they attacked forts (mostly during Pontiac’s Rebellion) it was usually a surprise rush.

     

    I haven’t read the rules. Other rules of the LR brand are lots of fun. I just get picky about how woodland Indians are represented on the table.

     

    Lovely work, OB.

    It's never too late to have a happy childhood

    #108009
    Avatar photoOB
    Participant

    Yeah, I think it’s best to field Woodland Indians as good quality skirmishers in Rampant style games.  Non of the tribes could afford significant losses of manpower.

    I gamed Monongahela with Pike Man’s Lament and got an enjoyable afternoon and an historical result.

    OB
    http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

    #108023
    Avatar photoGone Fishing
    Participant

    As a side note, I’ve been eyeing those Lancashire Games Mameluke models for a long while and yours are some of the first painted pics I’ve seen of them. They look great!

    #108027
    Avatar photoOB
    Participant

    Much appreciated.  I’m painting the French camel mounted infantry at the moment I’ll post a pic here when they’re done.

    OB
    http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

    #108146
    Avatar photoJay T
    Participant

    I’m curious about them, but I did find some of the other Osprey rules a bit simplistic, and frustratingly unbalanced.

    Or perhaps it was me not the games….

    https://miniaturewar.games - My Mostly Historical Blog

    #108181
    Avatar photovtsaogames
    Participant

    The rules that are variants of Dan Mersey’s “Lion Rampant” rules (which these are) have a good reputation. That said, some of the other Osprey rules do not. I have not played the others or many of Dan’s for that matter. I hope to remedy this by playing Men Who Would Be Kings (colonial) later this year.

     

    Edit: all of Dan’s rules that I’ve seen are large skirmish rules, with maybe 4-6 units per side. The treatment is cinematic rather than simulation and fairly simple, rules sometimes tongue in cheek. I’ve seen comments om Amazon by players who expected rules for large battles and were disappointed. Figure on 40 – 100 figures per side on the table.

    It's never too late to have a happy childhood

    #108193
    Avatar photoJozisTinMan
    Participant

    I plan on using them for Partisan actions in SC a la Francis Marion and Thomas Sumter.  Should be perfect.

    odd that folks would expect big battle rules, that is not what it says on the tin.

    odder still, I am doing it in 6mm…

    http://jozistinman.blogspot.com/

    #108203
    Avatar photovtsaogames
    Participant

    …I am doing it in 6mm…

     

    Hmm, should be able to play that on a very small table. Or use ranges that are in true scale with the figures, 3mm = 1 yard.

    It's never too late to have a happy childhood

    #108206
    Avatar photoJozisTinMan
    Participant

    I was inspired by the 6mm skirmishing on the Roll a One blog, for example see: https://rollaone.com/2017/05/29/pruth-campaign-skirmish-action-in-6mm-using-pikemans-lament-part-4-the-swedes-another-game-and-rebasing-the-fiw-stuff/

    I am am going to just play at 1/2 scale on a 2’ x 3’ area.

    http://jozistinman.blogspot.com/

    #108267
    Avatar photoOB
    Participant

    Got my copy of Rebels and Patriots yesterday and have now had a read through.  There’s a lot there and all of it looks as though it will work on the table.  So far there’s only one tweak I want to make which is to allow two units of skirmishing Mamluk cavalry to combine to produce one unit of Mamluk shock cavalry by the simple expedient of lining up next to each other.  Not bad for a rule set that majors in the North American theatre.  I’d be inclined to do the same thing for American Indians to mimic the  Comanche circle or, on foot, Woodland Indians successful sniping leading to a rush.

    Although this is billed as a skirmish set it isn’t what many of us would consider by that term.  For a start the figures fight by unit not as individuals and secondly there can be a fair number of figures on the table even at the basic 24 points a side level.

    As an example here are units for the Crimean War with their R&P unit cost and traits as you can see you can get the equivalent of brigade size games for your 24 points.

    Rebels and Patriots

    Russian line infantry, poor shots, aggressive, large unit @ 5 points.

    Cossacks, light cavalry, ‘Green’ @ 3 points.

    Skirmishers @ 2 points.

    It’s common enough to use 30 or 48 points a side so it’s not really a traditional skirmish as we once knew it.

    Overall I’m impressed with what I got for my money and think Rebels and Patriots will do just what I hoped.  I’ll likely have more to say after a first game but so far I’m happy.

    For Jay above I don’t think these rules would disappoint you.

    The figures above are all from Lancashire Games.

    OB
    http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

    #108288
    Avatar photovtsaogames
    Participant

    The Lion Rampant stable (of which this one) is about small battles, Kleine Krieg rather than single-squad skirmishes where each figure has their own stats. The smallest components are units of 6 – 12 figures (sometimes larger). Each is activated (or not) by the score of two dice, with better troops being easier to activate. Throw in simple firing, morale and melee rules, presto.

    It's never too late to have a happy childhood

    #108352
    Avatar photoTwoGunBob
    Participant

    I will certainly be giving these a tickle with my 54’s (when they are done) as I’m a big fan of the Rampant series. Read through the rules and I think a lot of people that have the complaint with ending a turn when you fail an activation will be happy. That’s the most common gripe I get at conventions when I put on Dragon Rampant. I’ve read through the rules a few times now and it certainly be bent, twisted, broke and unit profiles are open to lots of historical interpretation and reinterpretation but I think it’s going to give a fast and fun game that will shine as you track your commanding officers path to death or glory.

    #108359
    Avatar photovtsaogames
    Participant

    I think a lot of people that have the complaint with ending a turn when you fail an activation will be happy.

     

    That changed with Men Who Would Be Kings.

    It's never too late to have a happy childhood

    #108363
    Avatar photoOB
    Participant

    I was thinking that as well as being a fun set of rules for those of us who have being pushing lead for decades Rebels and Patriots is a very cost effective way of getting into the hobby.  Two sides and the rule book is likely well within the financial reach of most folk and mostly game can be as ‘historically accurate’ as you care to make it.

    In the lead up to the publication of R&P I bought Papal and Garabaldini 15mm figures in the QRF sale 20% off so it didn’t cost much to have enough for two forces of 24 points each.  The whole ‘Rampant’ thing reminds me of DBA in that respect.

    OB
    http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

    #108423
    Avatar photoGraham Harrison
    Participant

    My copy is on order, well just dispatched actually. I’m dusting off my 28mm F&IW collection in preparation.

    If I go for any new periods for this it will probably be in 10mm.

    #109087
    Avatar photokyoteblue
    Participant

    My copies have come in and I should pick them up from the store tomorrow evening.

    #109147
    Avatar photokyoteblue
    Participant

    I now have both my copies and will be reading over them in the coming week. Huzzah!!

    #110743
    Avatar photoOB
    Participant

    I’ve posted Rebels and Patriots stats for the Mamluks, Bedouin and Cairo Janissaries on my blog should it be of interest.

    Mamluks

    http://youdonotknowthenorth.blogspot.com

     

    OB
    http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

    #110777
    Avatar photokyoteblue
    Participant

    They look good, thanks OB!

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