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  • #28654
    Lagartija Mike
    Spectator

    Two quick questions from a period novice: can anyone point me toward material about the French Revolutionary Army (beyond Osprey), and what period is it most appropriate for play, 18th Century or Napoleonic?

    #28655
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    what period is it most appropriate for play, 18th Century or Napoleonic?

     

    Depends. You doing First or Second Coalition?

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #28664
    Lagartija Mike
    Spectator

    The First Coalition. I always imagine them marching in vaguely criminal deshabille. Beyond the Ottomans and a nodding acquaintance with the uniforms of the Spanish Bourbon and Austrian troops I know zero about the period.

    #28673
    grizzlymc
    Participant

    Great, I am waiting for someone to point me at a reference which explains exactly what desbande meant and how it shocked the 18th C armies of the coalition.

    #28679
    General Slade
    Participant

    When I tried to find information on the period it seemed a bit thin on the ground.  Uniforms of the French Revolutionary Wars by Philip Haythornthwaite (published by Blandford) is okay but it is one of those books that tries to cover a lot of ground and so may not give you the detail you need.  L. and F. Funcken do a book on the uniforms of the revolutionary wars.  I haven’t seen it and I think it is only available in French (and is likely to be expensive).  I know these days the Funckens attract some flak on the accuracy front but in the absence of anything more up to date I would get hold of it if I could afford it.

    #28681
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    Well if you want uniform plates, there’s Knotel and Loyer, as well as those mentioned above. Should be Googleable…

    There’s Phipp’s ‘Armies of the First French Republic’ for the history. It’s in 3 volumes, out of print, and expensive.

     

    …and I must give Stu at Maverick a plug for the flags

    http://www.maverick-models.com/fr_rev_france_1791.htm

    http://www.maverick-models.com/fr_rev_france.htm

     

    Bit of a Cinderella period, being sandwiched between the SYW/FIW and the doings of the Little Corporal.

     

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #28685
    Etranger
    Participant

    Eureka have a superb (and growing) range of Revolutionary war French in 28mm and plans to do their enemies in similar depth. I’m tempted by them despite my strong allergy to the Napoleonic era (or at least some of its adherents).

    #28702
    Lagartija Mike
    Spectator

    Thanks, I’ve already ordered the Phipps and Funcken titles, as well as a monograph by Forrest on the soldiers in poltical and social context. I’ll check out Eureka shortly and, now, the problem is to provide them with an equally colorful opponent.

    Etranger, I sympathize with your aversion to Napoleonic culture (PAYMASTERS OF DEATH versus BUTCHER OF EUROPE sh#t!) but there’s something about the anarchic nature of the early revolutionary armies that appeals to me

    #28703
    sheepman
    Participant

    A French Demi Brigade, 1793:

    French Rev is the crossover period between the 18th Century and Napoleonic types of warfare so you need to find or adapt a set of rules to cope with both. I use General De Brigade as a basis. First anyone interested must research the period they are into, whatever that period is. You cannot adapt a set of rules unless you know how the participents manouvered, fought and supplied their men. I would sugest ‘The Art of War of Revolutionary France’ by Paddy Griffith as a starting point but there are many more too numerous to mention.
    Figure ranges, Eureka, lovely compleate range but expensive. Elite very nice, Trent Miniatures, Old Glory 1807 French Naps with bicorn (if you ignore the shorter coat tails).
    Have a look here for info and pretty pictures.
    Dave.

    'The higher up the tree the monkey goes, the more of it's arse you can see'.
    To bosses everywhere!

    http://thenorthumbrianwargamer.blogspot.co.uk/

    #28706
    Lagartija Mike
    Spectator

    Thanks Dave I was just about to ask about rules.

    #28707
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    Thanks, I’ve already ordered the Phipps and Funcken titles, as well as a monograph by Forrest on the soldiers in poltical and social context. I’ll check out Eureka shortly and, now, the problem is to provide them with an equally colorful opponent.

    You could do the Guerre de Vendee. Saumur, Lucon etc.

     

     

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #28724
    Lagartija Mike
    Spectator

    The Vendee looks interesting but I’m not sure what the Royalist troops would look like.

    #28732
    sheepman
    Participant

    Riever Castings 17th cent Monmonth figures:

    With some Old Glory AWI militia thrown in for luck, should have clogs on but what the heck!

    Dave.

    'The higher up the tree the monkey goes, the more of it's arse you can see'.
    To bosses everywhere!

    http://thenorthumbrianwargamer.blogspot.co.uk/

    #28733
    Lagartija Mike
    Spectator

    Seriously, I love those.

    #28735
    MGB
    Participant

    Forgive my forwardness but I have set up a blog largely devoted to wargaming the French Revolutionary Wars 1793-1802. While I refrain from promoting my ‘house’ rules I hope it has some value in encouraging interest in the late 18th century. Here is the link http://skg3wargames.blogspot.co.uk/
    and a photo just uploaded. Regards, Michael

    #28741
    Lagartija Mike
    Spectator

    Michael, thanks I’ll check it out shortly. Looks like a great resource.

    #28762
    Patrice
    Participant

    I’m not sure what the Royalist troops would look like.

    They were peasants in their usual clothes. Search “Vendée”; or “Chouans” for Brittany.

    Some troops can even be dressed in red uniform for the Quiberon landing 1795.

    Royalist officers were often dressed in interesting fashion.

    Riever Castings 17th cent Monmonth figures:   With some Old Glory AWI militia thrown in

    Good ideas.

    http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
    https://www.anargader.net/

    #28805
    McLaddie
    Participant

    I think it would be a mistake to think of the Revolutionary wars, 1792-1800 as being covered by either 18th Century [SYW] or Napoleonic rules.  You miss some important things going with the either/or approach just as you would by trying to decide whether the ACW is better covered by Napoleonic or FPW rules. It really was a combination of both operational and tactical approaches for both sides of the conflict, a transition period.

    If you are looking for books on the period dealing with tactical development, Paddy’Griffith’s book is very good, though the actual amount of The Art of War of Revolutionary France 1789-1802 that deals with tactics  is fifty pages out of 300, though organization and operational methods are covered in another 50 pages.  The Military History Press has a very expensive work using Phipps entitled Napoleon’s First Campaign 1796-1797 with many Rocco illustrations.  The old 1st Empire magazine had a number of extensive articles on the Revolutionary period you might be able to find.

    John Lynn’s book, Bayonet’s of the Republic is an indepth study of the Army of the North 1794 that gives great insights into how the French fought during that time.  Nafziger also provides a number of translated works on the Revolutionary wars, including studies written by Archduke Charles and other participants.

    Unfortunately, the actual battles aren’t covered very well. Obviously, Napoleon’s Italian campaigns get the most coverage.  Bernhard Voykowitsch did a study of the Castiglione 1796 campaign from the Austrian perspective which is very good, but out of print. He was going to have a series of books, but from what I understand never did.  The book gives a great deal of information useful to a wargamer including maps and tactical explanations. It provides some indepth information on how the Austrians fought…and it wasn’t a SYW rehash.

    Oh, and if you are interested, I have an extra copy of Uniforms of the French Revolutionary Wars by Philip Haythornthwaite you are welcome to.

     

     

     

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by McLaddie.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by McLaddie.
    #28814
    Lagartija Mike
    Spectator

    McLaddie, thanks! I’ve already gone on an amazon binge and it’s in my first order but I appreciate it! I need to look into Lynn’s book.

    #28827
    grizzlymc
    Participant

    Get thee behind me Satan!

     

    But then it’s only three books, how much harm could a little extra reading do?

     

    I wonder what I could do in 6mm?

     

     

    #28837
    McLaddie
    Participant

    Cows in Heaven!  Bernhard Voykowitsch’s book Castiglione 1796 is a whopping $90 on Amazon.

    #28838
    McLaddie
    Participant

    I wonder what I could do in 6mm?

    Between Baccus and Adler, you can find everything you need. [The Devil made me write this…]

     

     

    #28840
    Lagartija Mike
    Spectator

    McLaddie that’s nothing. Academic or special interest books go for crazy money. I’ve paid upwards of 500usd for obscure Dumbarton Oaks mesoamerican titles.

    #28845
    grizzlymc
    Participant

    It would be a terrible thing if the dark lord were to tell me how to do those pitchfork toting civillians in 6mm.

    #28859
    Etranger
    Participant

    Heroics and Ros MECW19 peasants in arms might pique the devils interest….

    #29982
    Lagartija Mike
    Spectator

    My ratbag Revolutionary French are slowly coming in and awaiting the brush. Now I need to decide on manufacturer(s) for their Austro-Papal-Veneto-Piedmontese opponents.

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