21/10/2022 at 10:21 #179324Brian HandleyParticipant
This topic probably only applies to 1/144 scale moderns ,post about 1600 for the UK) when enclosed fields became mpore of an issue.
Hedges have always been a problem in our games. Much of Northern Europe has lots of hedges. That means that if you are trying to get somthing like realistic terrain you also need lots of hedges. That’s fine and it lets infantry behave correctly but its a pain to lay on the table. The first picture is of some terrain we are putting on at FIASCO, its a bit shy on hedges but its fine for a show. Laying out this much hedge in straight bits is a pain when you need to conform to typical bends in the road and takes ages.
I created an integreated hedge system of procribed straight hedge length to simplify setting up of lots of hedges but to be honest it did not speed up laying much.
This terrain was set up really fast however, by using an articulated hedge system. That is a 1/144 hedge that has pivots every 50mm so it can easily conform to curves. If its a fraction too long just add a wider bit of road area, not uncommon in the real world so no need to sort fro the correct length every time.
The other issue is gates and the second picture is a gate section that slots between sections of articulated hedge again giving fast set up and a bit of flexability on length.
This topic proably only applies to 1/144 scale. At 1/300 you could use pipe cleaners so you have the ultimate flexible hedge. At 1/72 and above the amount of hedge required falls dramatically as the area you represent drops dramaticaly or real terrain is no longer reflected for various reasons.
You may ask why now, well to be honest without a 3D printer to mass produce the hedge sections is would be a massive pain to make. As it is the 1/144 scale hedge is too small for 3D printed pivots so cut down dressmakers pins were required and even that was a pain.
Ps as a guide ther is about 20ft of hedge in this picture which is half of an 6′ by 6′ board.
The next step is to make yet more hedge but this time taller so large vehicles like tanks are completely hidden by the hedge.
So what is your opinion?
(Edit: Seeing as Dad completely failed to ask how to add the images properly, as they’re hosted on my account, I took the liberty of imbedding the images properly for him. – Aotrs Commander)21/10/2022 at 10:27 #179325MikeKeymaster21/10/2022 at 10:35 #179326MikeKeymaster21/10/2022 at 12:18 #179330Don GlewweParticipant
So what is your opinion?
Layout/table setup: Seems a decent idea. Depends, I think, on how easy it is to vary the lengths of the ‘chains’ – if fiddling with pins to make the joins is required I’m not sure the gain in flexibility is worth the trouble? …dunno
Visual: The individual stock pieces look too “wall-y” to me – perhaps a healthy layer of irregular flocking would help? The articulated, faceted nature of the pieces also contributes to the un-natural feel – though, tbh, it does work with the overall tiled theme of the tabletop.
This topic probably only applies to 1/144 scale. At 1/300 you could use pipe cleaners so you have the ultimate flexible hedge. At 1/72 and above the amount of hedge required falls dramatically as the area you represent drops dramaticaly or real terrain is no longer reflected for various reasons.
Confused a bit – Is this to do with ground scale or figure scale? Seems like the latter which strikes me as odd for the era gamed, but then I’m well across the odd-line, so… ; )
https://brawlfactory.net/21/10/2022 at 12:39 #179332Brian HandleyParticipant
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, the picture should have been.
Mike my links did not go to this I checked, so not sure where you got the DBM fortress from ???? It is one of mine I admit it, Lockdown does stange things to folk.
You still need some diffrent lengths of hedge but nowhere near as many hence why its faster. Dropping links out would defeat theo bject.
The issue with ground scale/figure scale.
At 1/144 you need a lot of hedges to make realistic northern Europe terrain assuming ground scale about 1mm represnets 1m.
Assuming you keep something like the same figure to ground scale at 1/72 vs 1/144 you need 4 times less hedge. If you keep the ground scale the same as for 1/144 it looks daft, the fields would be about the same size as the tank. So less hedge required.
Fantasy games like Rapid Fire do not have linear firing ranges hence none linear groundscale. Its therefore inpossible to accurately reproduce a real maps and hence Pick-up games terrain is by definition fantasy and typicaly does not feature that much hedge so again the advantage is less. If you fought on real terrain at 1/72 or bigger there are rare occations where the terrain is verry dence and lots of hedges woiuld be required. However these are very unusual and often don’t suit 1/72 players who want 1 tank to several as such terrain is really only infanry only.21/10/2022 at 13:17 #179334Guy FarrishParticipant
I quite like those. Not sure the fiddliness of the pin hinge system would be worth it for me but I like the way it follows the curves of the road.
One thing about Northern Europe needing lots of hedges – depends which bit of Northern Europe. Britain, definitely, Normandy certainly, many other parts of France and Netherlands, not so much and and North German plain definitely not.
Your initial links both went to the gate picture – I scrolled through you photo album to find the other hedge pictures and the dbm fortress was a bit further along the stream.
Best wishes for FIASCO.21/10/2022 at 14:33 #179336Darkest Star GamesParticipant
I think it’s pretty clever, certainly helps with quickness of layout/take down and a more natural meandering of the hedges. Probably easier to store as well. I’m detail oriented and prefer my hedges/bocage a little fluffier, but that’s as easy as glue and flock. Looks like this will work a treat for you!
"I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."
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