Home Forums Horse and Musket Napoleonic Austrian Grenadiers – Mixed German and Hungarian?

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  • #56250
    Bandit
    Participant

    It would seem that my sources agree that circa 1809 the Mayblümel (aka Locher) Grenadiers were formed from the grenadier companies of the 8th Ludwig Infantry, the 22nd Coburg Infantry, and the 60th Gyulai Infantry. To the best of my knowledge, the 60th was Hungarian but the other two were Moravian and outfitted with the all white ‘German’ uniform.

    This surprised me because I’d understood that Austrian grenadier battalions were either German or Hungarian, not mixed. Anyone able to offer any information on the subject?

    Cheers,

    The Bandit

    #56281
    General Slade
    Participant

    Hi Bandit,

    I also thought that German and Hungarian regiments were not combined in grenadier battalions but I have checked in Enrico Acerbi’s ‘The Austrian Imperial-Royal Army 1805-1809’ and his information for Mayblümel / Locher tallies with what you have found.

    Acerbi’s work is on Napoleon-Series and is available here as a pdf: http://www.centotredicesimo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/ACERBI-The-Austrian-Imperial-Army-1805-09.pdf

    If you don’t get an answer here you could try the General de Brigade forum where Dave Hollins posts replies on all matters Austrian.  He has been kind enough to help me on a couple of occasions in the past.

    #56305
    Bandit
    Participant

    General,

    Thank you, I’d looked on the Napoleon Series but had not found the PDF, that will be helpful in general.

    So far it seems the Mayblümel (aka Locher) Grenadiers were the only mixed battalion of grenadiers. I recently did some digging about 1813 (through August) and all the battalions there appeared to be one or the other.

    A few fairly informed people have suggested to me that this may be the one exception.

    Cheers,

    The Bandit

    #56306
    General Slade
    Participant

    It is always nice to find an exception to the rule.  It makes me want to paint up this battalion.  They would look really colourful.

    Incidentally, a while ago I was trying to establish which regiment in a combined grenadier battalion would provide the colour party and I wasn’t able to find any definitive answer.  Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

    Initially, I thought it would be provided by the senior regiment numerically (ie. the lower-numbered regiment). Now, however, I am inclined to think it would be the colonel’s regiment that would carry the standard (and so form up in the centre in the case of a battalion formed of three regiments).

    #56307
    Bandit
    Participant

    I’d actually been of the (somewhat uninformed opinion) that Austrian grenadier battalions likely didn’t carry colors as they’d have been withheld by the parent battalions.

    Russian converged grenadier battalions 1810-1815 were of the same basic model and they did not carry colors. The French converged elites (with a notable exception) were of a different model in that they were generally converged in the field and so would not have colors available but were significantly different since they weren’t formed for a campaign or war time. The grenadier division of 1805 did have colors but not French flags and not Eagles. The Prussian converged grenadier battalions (early war 1805-1807) did not carry colors either as they were left with the parent battalions.

    So that was my working presumption.

    Cheers,

    The Bandit

    #56308
    General Slade
    Participant

    Hi Bandit,

    The Austrians were the exception to the rule.  Their converged grenadier battalions did carry colours.  For most of the period this would have been a spare Ordinarfahne  (the yellow flag) taken from the regimental depot but in 1805, when the grenadiers companies weren’t detached, the grenadiers were the first battalion of the regiment and so carried the white Leibfahne.

    You can find more details here: http://www.warflag.com/napflags/flaghtml/austria.htm

    #56309
    Bandit
    Participant

    Thank you for the enlightening correction!

    Good to know.

    Cheers,

    The Bandit

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