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  • #87941
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Recently whilst on FB I saw a post from a company promoting their Kickstarter.
    Someone commented on that post with ‘Meh’.

    I thought that was a bit uncalled for myself.
    Then I discovered the person who made that remark owns a small games business.
    This made me wonder if he would approve of people saying Meh whenever he announced a new product.
    Maybe had the company solicited feedback, then Meh would have been less annoying, but even then it would still not be helpful.

    This will no doubt lodge in my mind and I will be unlikely to order from the Meh man.
    The company was trying to sell some product, presumably to pay the bills and put food on the table.
    Why would you go out of your way to potentially upset someone and maybe have a negative impact on their ability to buy food/pay bills/etc.

    What good does it actually do?

    Anyway, how do negative comments (for the sake of it) from one company about another company make you feel, are you less inclined to buy from the one that makes the snide/unpleasant comment?
    Do you not care?
    Something else?

    #87947
    Tony Hughes
    Participant

    ‘Meh’ probably has some meaning in today’s parlance but, to be honest, I wouldn’t even have realised it was a critical comment.

    Why worry about what illiterate idiots post Mike ?

     

    #87949
    OldBen1
    Participant

    Oh the Trolls. It’s so easy to be nasty when your staring at a computer and not at someone’s face.

    I’m always positive, even with stuff I don’t like, or should I say prefer.  No one seems to understand that the more miniatures out there the better.  15mm has really exploded in the last 5 years, mostly because companies continue to sculpt and expand ranges.  That’s good for me, and good for others as well.  Tons of variety is awesome, especially when looking for obscure miniatures.

    Art is always subjective, the same with sculpting miniatures.  I think that most of the old fantasy sculpts are kind of ugly, but they have a certain charm.  I’m not going to buy them, but I can understand their appeal.

    I think where it becomes troublesome is when it pits companies against each other, especially on a public forum.  Based on some of the craziness on the TMP site, it seems a little yucky.  Small individual companies should be supportive of one another.  The only way to improve is through testing and generally positive feedback.  A Meh is the worst, passive aggressive comment ever.

    I feel like this forum has given me a bit of a window into how a company works.  It’s fun to see how Crom’s Anvil has grown from a small idea, to an actual company.

    #87950
    Ruarigh
    Participant

    I prefer not to buy from companies that make negative comments about other companies’ products. It seems to be a wider symptom of the interwebs that people feel that making negative, non-constructive comments is an acceptable mode of discourse, and I generally try to avoid places where people are like that. Life’s too short, and those people really should knock it off with those negative waves.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Ruarigh.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 2 months ago by Ruarigh.

    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    https://emidsvikings.ac.uk/
    https://roderickdale.co.uk/

    #87957
    Mr. Average
    Participant

    Yeah I’m all for competition but we can all be cool about it. It makes me not want to deal with people when they act negative or dismissive because it establishes a pattern of negative behavior among their peers, which I always fear will spill over to customers.

    I recall someone posting about Horizon Wars and another designer posting something to the tune of “I’m unimpressed. Look at MY game instead!” Which was a huge turnoff.

    #87958
    McKinstry
    Participant

    I simply don’t bother with companies/individuals that slag off others and to be fair, most small outfits in this hobby are generally run by nice fellows so the odd bit of competitive snark is an aberration and a rare one at that.

    The tree of Life is self pruning.

    #87960

    ‘Meh’ probably has some meaning in today’s parlance but, to be honest, I wouldn’t even have realised it was a critical comment.

    Origin?

    #87962
    Norm S
    Participant

    This drives to the heart of being a responsible poster. Whether it be malicious or unthinking, an unjustified comment can really hurt a business.

    #87966
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    There are dealers/companies that have treated me badly that I will not buy from again.  If asked I will tell you which ones.

    #87970

    I once dealt with a book seller face to face and was very rudely treated. I used to make it a point to buy a book from them when I went to shows and was set to spend $100 which consisted of 1 game and 1 book.  Of course I set my purchases down, walked away and never purchased from them again.  I don’t even give the booth a sideways glance.  Finally, I returned the “favor” 10-fold by telling 10 people about the incident.  Strangely, at least five of them had similarly been treated rudely by the same company.

    So to answer your question, name and shame 10 fold is what you will get out of it from me if you cross me up like that.  😉  That is how rude treatment would work anyway.  I probably would be more like you, Mike, and just put that company on the ignore list for shilling negative comments like that.

     

    John

    "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    --Abraham Lincoln

    #87972
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    Well generally I agree, and modern ways of business sometimes leave me speechless.

    However – what did he/she mean by ‘meh’ ? Was it a comment at perceived poor workmanship? Was it a comment on the promotion of such work through kickstarter? (I have serious concerns myself about the methodology, too tedious to go through here but with worries about the affect on both the potential manufacturer and the supporter/investor). Or was it some other facet of the promotion about which we know nothing?

    Now, I would agree the comment was pretty useless, because it tells me nothing about what ‘meh’ means in general to the individual making it, or in this particular case to what it was referring. It may have been a rude, pointless and uncouth dismissal of another manufacturers work. On the other hand it may have had some validity, but either way I can’t tell. Brevity is great but not to the point of being completely opaque.

    #87975

    Well generally I agree, and modern ways of business sometimes leave me speechless. However – what did he/she mean by ‘meh’ ? Was it a comment at perceived poor workmanship? Was it a comment on the promotion of such work through kickstarter? (I have serious concerns myself about the methodology, too tedious to go through here but with worries about the affect on both the potential manufacturer and the supporter/investor). Or was it some other facet of the promotion about which we know nothing? Now, I would agree the comment was pretty useless, because it tells me nothing about what ‘meh’ means in general to the individual making it, or in this particular case to what it was referring. It may have been a rude, pointless and uncouth dismissal of another manufacturers work. On the other hand it may have had some validity, but either way I can’t tell. Brevity is great but not to the point of being completely opaque.

    I’m not really sure the what exactly was meant is all that useful.  Meh means, essentially, “Mediocre” or “Underwhelmed.”  That, in itself, is enough to show that the person was trying to be insulting.  at that point you can just stop listening to what the person says.

    John

    "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    --Abraham Lincoln

    #87977
    Ivan Sorensen
    Participant

    I get super concerned about commenting on other peoples games, because I don’t want to look like I am slagging off the work of others while trying to flog my own games.

    So I try to phrase everything as constructively as possible or as a “This game has this mechanic, which you may like if.. and may not like if..” sort of thing.

    It helps that its rare I genuinely dislike a game though.

    Nordic Weasel Games
    https://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/5701/Nordic-Weasel-Games?src=browse5701

    #87996
    irishserb
    Participant

    There are a few venders/manufacturers that I don’t buy from, after they displayed a lack of consideration for someone on the internet.

    Context is important, and the inflection in our voice can be lost when we type. So, I try to give the benefit of the doubt, but yes, being rude in a post can lose my business.

    #87997

    May I humbly, respectfully & politely suggest that we (collectively) may be over reacting?

    I must admit I didn’t find “meh” to be overly rude. Whilst perhaps best not written, it probably only indicates a lack of interest.

    And anything stronger…..well, people can be rude for a variety of reasons: the proverbial bad day boiling up, for instance.

    I certainly can overlook the occasional jibe & unless there’s a pattern or a darker reason (eg trying to undermine a competitor’s business), probably best to ignore. Or for subsequent commentators to challenge. “You may find the models to be “meh” but I think they’re dynamic & fill a gap in my collection. I for one will be wholeheartedly supporting this Kickstarter……” etc

    I really hesitate to write this as I know it’s the mantra of the extreme Right Wing, but maybe we need to harden up a little? Not everyone needs like everything. I hate brussel sprouts for instance. I’d tend not to spring this on a BS farmer but if it slipped out, surely he should comfort himself with the knowledge many like the unpalatable, little mutant cabbages even if I find them a little ‘meh’.

     

    donald

    #88004
    Mike
    Keymaster

    may be over reacting?

    Possibly but if people were potentially damaging your ability to earn money by bad mouthing your work, would you be that unconcerned?

    Not everyone needs like everything.

    Absolutely, but not everyone needs to know what people don’t like.

    There are plenty of things I don’t like, but I don’t go out of my way to tell artists their work is meh just to provoke a reaction.
    It seems to be a simple lack of basic manners.

    EDIT: It is possible I am ‘too close’ what with the company that was meh’d being an advertiser here.

    #88017
    Ruarigh
    Participant

    I must admit I didn’t find “meh” to be overly rude. Whilst perhaps best not written, it probably only indicates a lack of interest.

    It may well only indicate a lack of interest, but there’s no need for a person to write it. There’s too much negativity in the world as it is. If someone is unimpressed by something, then they should just move on and not comment, unless they have some constructive criticism to provide that could improve the product. Responses like “Meh” belong in the same rubbish bin as all those comments that respond to “Tell me about X scale figures” with “Don’t bother with X, use Y instead because X is rubbish”. It just sends the signal/noise ratio in the wrong direction. When the response comes from a manufacturer about another manufacturer’s product, then it sends a bad message about the first manufacturer. The respondent may well be having a bad day, but they really need to remember that they are representing their brand whenever they post in public. I’ve never really understood why people feel that it is acceptable to post negative responses without providing constructive criticism alongside them. It just feels like people enjoy tearing others down for the sake of it.

    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    https://emidsvikings.ac.uk/
    https://roderickdale.co.uk/

    #88032

    I take on board what everyone is saying & acknowledge that there is much truth in what has been written. I seem to be in a minority of one.

    However, it does concern me this gentleman is being universally damned for merely using a 3 letter word. Empathy demands we know something behind its use before we rush to judgment. And that we give people mercy.

    I don’t really know if it is the result of the power & practices of Social Media but the world seems to want to act as judge, jury & executioner. And tout de suite at that.

    I’m afraid on this issue, I’ll have to stay in that fairly lonely minority.

     

    donald

     

    #88033
    Mike
    Keymaster

    I don’t really know if it is the result of the power & practices of Social Media but the world seems to want to act as judge, jury & executioner.

    It is not just social media. If he said it to the guy face to face and I saw, I would still think it rude.

     

    #88034
    Ruarigh
    Participant

    However, it does concern me this gentleman is being universally damned for merely using a 3 letter word. Empathy demands we know something behind its use before we rush to judgment. And that we give people mercy.

    That’s a fair point. We do owe people some empathy and mercy, but I suspect that people were commenting more on general usage rather than on this specific case. I wonder if, in this specific instance, there was any follow-up on the comment to ascertain the intent behind it. I also wonder if the deployment of a 3-letter word response may be considered to be treating the original poster with due empathy and mercy.

    I don’t really know if it is the result of the power & practices of Social Media but the world seems to want to act as judge, jury & executioner. And tout de suite at that. I’m afraid on this issue, I’ll have to stay in that fairly lonely minority. donald

    It’s a sad fact that the anonymity of the keyboard does rather seem to lend itself  to saying things that one would not normally say to a person’s face. I don’t think it increases how judgemental people are, but I do think it increases the willingness to express judgemental opinions.

    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    https://emidsvikings.ac.uk/
    https://roderickdale.co.uk/

    #88049
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    Ochoin – you aren’t in a minority of one.

    To make it clear I wouldn’t buy from a business that was rude.

    However the particular incident that triggered the conversation is to me at least ‘nuanced’. To me ‘meh’ indicates indifference or ennui rather than hatred or dislike. I wouldn’t use it for the very reason that its meaning is unclear and open to interpretation. And as the user on this occasion appears to have been a commercial rival to the kickstarter I would be a bit dubious about taking the comment as entirely neutral.

    But in general terms I can’t believe that a policy of ‘no comment’ unless it is a positive comment makes sense. That reduces online interaction to meaningless mush. I don’t want people to be rude about my efforts but I’d rather someone said they thought my putty pushing, for example, needed work on crisp lines and smooth surfaces (which it certainly does) than just say ‘oh lovely’ without thought or meaning (very happy to receive nice comments of course! But I’ll live with sensible criticism). And surely someone is allowed to say that they don’t think a particular set of rules, figures, terrain etc is for them if asked? As long as they explain why and don’t go off the deep end in their criticism?

    #88050
    Tony Hughes
    Participant

    I agree with Guy on this one.

    Any business should encourage sensible comment and even criticism – and be prepared to change where that shows concern in their customer base or to explain where they feel they are right.

    My grandmother’s adage of ‘If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything’ is just useless over-politeness and inappropriate in these circumstances.

    What IS needed is restraint by all members of a discussion group so that any contributor feels safe to criticise where they feel it is fair to do so and then take part in a civilised discussion if others disagree. Just like it is here !!!

     

    #88077
    GeoffQRF
    Participant

    <p style=”text-align: left;”>I’m in a similar boat with Ivan.</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>As a customer and consumer I may have an opinion, I may feel like I like or dislike something, and may even have reasons for doing so. Whether or not they are justified is a different discussion. The modellers eye perhaps gives me a slightly different perspective on how things are made, perhaps partly because I look st them and think, “that’s not quite right”, or “I’d have done xxx instead”.</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>However at the same time I can’t get away from the fact that I am also a manufacturer and, to some, a competitor. As such any comments I may make over whether I like or dislike a competitors model is automatically seen as coming from the manufacturing me rather than the critical eye of me as a modeller and consumer.</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>I got myself into a bit of trouble with that recently elsewhere, where an ex manufacturer decided to have a go at me over a post I had made, and another individual (I can’t call him a customer, I don’t think he’s ever actually bought anything from us) decided that was a good opportunity to try and tell everyone what awful models we make. It generally makes little difference to us commercially (in fact ‘any news and all that’ means more people come to see for themselves and sales usually go up – sex sells, but so does a little controversy) but it can raise the blood pressure a notch. Thankfully mine is incredibly low :-)</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>That said, ‘meh’ is pretty useless as a comment. I would say that the author is probably underwhelmed. It doesn’t interest him. In which case why bother commenting at all. It’s a big of the social media influence where we feel a need to comment, like, dislike or add a photo of a cat, almost as if just yo show the world (or at least Cambridge Analytica) we are still here.</p>

    QRF Models Limited
    www.quickreactionforce.co.uk

    #88081

    I won’t do business with someone I perceive as rude. There are too many other sources for any product to endure a bad experience, too. I’ll go elsewhere.

    But I don’t think a ‘meh’ comment is all that rude, either. I don’t think it reflects on the product or the manufacturer–just on the commenter’s reaction to it. It just didn’t hit that person’s sweet spot. I’ve been in that position many times and I’ve used ‘meh’, face to face. No rudeness intended. It’s just not for me. Nor do I believe the vendor took it as an insult.

    Being a manufacturer means you have to put your product out there. It’s not going to be just what everyone wants. If you can’t take an occasional shrug of the shoulders in regard to your product, process or even your personality, then you’re a bit to0 sensitive to be dealing with the public. Shrug it off and go on. You’ll find other customers. There’s a market for everything these days. It’s just a matter of finding it. And if you can’t find the market, tweak your product. Maybe a ‘meh’ comment can be converted to a ‘Wow!’

    Self taught, persistently behind the times, never up to date. AKA ~ jeff
    More verbosity: http://petiteguerre.blogspot.com/

    #88084
    Noel
    Participant

    I avoid buying from people that are consistently rude.  Once in a while isn’t a big deal.

    We all have bad days.

    I have a friend who owns a hobby shop.  He is a great guy, looks out for his regular customers, tries to be welcoming and helpful for new people, sends customers to other local stores if he knows they have something in stock that he doesn’t. Sometimes he is having a bad day and says something inconsiderate.  He has lost customers over that and he is aware of it and he regrets it for the lost relationships as well as the income.

    He used to employ this guy who didn’t like a popular product line.  This employee would bash the game in front of customers.  He found he had a lot of stock he could no longer move as those people went elsewhere.

    People will react to the things you say or write.  You have to be careful or it will cost you.  But retailers and manufacturers are still just people, too.

    #88085
    Ivan Sorensen
    Participant

    Oh, in a retail store I had a guy aggressively berate me for buying WW2 British figures.

    Same guy would give my wife crap for paging through an RPG book while waiting for me, while a bunch of kids were literally taking cell phone photos of pages of D&D books and putting them back on the shelf.

    Didn’t go back.

    Nordic Weasel Games
    https://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/5701/Nordic-Weasel-Games?src=browse5701

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