Cold War Gaming?

[irishserb]

I discovered a couple packs of GHQ 1/285th scale micro-armor at a local shop in 1982, and quickly became an avid Cold War gamer.  A small handful of Soviet and American tanks rapid expanded into hundreds, and later into thousands representing five NATO and three Warpac nations.  Rules included at least a game of nearly everything in print, but within that first year, I began adapting a homebrew WWII set to the modern era.

I also collected a small number of 20mm Americans, East Germans, and Soviets, scratch-building some APCs to use with them in the early 1980s. I think the figs were called “Firefight 20” from Modelers Mart.  Through the 1980s, I played about an even split of WWII and Cold War games, and continued to do so until early 1990s.  During the 1980s, Cold War era games were a common sight at regional conventions, being almost as frequent as WWII events.

With the break up of the Soviet Union, Cold War gaming gave way to the modern post Cold War tabletop.   Interested opponents became more scarce, and my Cold War gaming slumped by the mid 1990s.

I have remained a fan of Cold War games, playing the occasional game in micro-scale, and had intended to expand into 15mm since discovering Quality Castings around 1987.  It would be another decade before the internet would bring QRF to my attention.  As it would turn out, only in the last couple of years have I been able to field any sort of Cold War forces in 15mm.

Now, with the impending arrival of Team Yankee, I feel the youthful excitement of the Cold War game rekindled.  I am planning on repainting some portion of my micro-armor, probably adding a little, and look forward to expanding my 15mm collection for games that focus more on infantry, than armor.

So, I am curious, how many of you have been, continue to be, or are going to become Cold War gamers?  What forces, scale, rules?

[kyoteblue]

I had some 6mm back in those dim dark days and used the GDW Team Yankee board game for rules..But I could never love 6mm the way I do 15mm so gave the 6mm away and started getting 15mm. Now with FOW Team Yankee coming out I already have enough armor to get a game in on the day I get those rules….I need Infantry thou.

[Nick Turner]

20mm and 6mm, 20mm needs so much more space but the models are lovely. A minimum of 12 x 6, a few AARs of the Gyros Teller series at this blog:

http://corporal-schmitt.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/gyros-teller-part-iv.html

I am also working on a 6mm project of the same series, all based on my time in the mid 80s with HQ 33 (UK) Armd Bde, especially Ex Crossed Swords.

1986 Crossed Swords – Datenblatt

[Rod Robertson]

Irishserb:

Like you, I have Cold War kit and figures in 6mm and 15mm. At the 6mm level I have regiments/brigades of kit for Soviets, Czechs, Poles, Americans, British, French, Germans, Dutch, Austrians, Chinese and of course Canadians. In the 1980’s and early 1990’s my buddies and I played Cold War micro armour battles using WRG, OMG and various incarnations of Challenger rules. Oddly, I have no infantry for Cold War as we used cardboard counters to represent the sections and teams of infantry, rather than the poor infantry miniatures from back in the day. If I get back into large scale gaming in the Cold War then I suppose I will have to start buying and painting 6mm infantry in large numbers and frankly that scares the crap out of me.

At the 15mm level, I have companies of Soviet kit and reinforced platoons of NATO kit, both figures and vehicle models. This is a project just recently embarked upon, so I have a way to go before everything is assembled, primed, painted and based. I am really looking forward to this but not being a big fan of FOW rules, I am looking for a set of rules for individually based infantry and vehicles to use in up to company scale attacks. I have hopes for Too Fat Lardies I Ain’t Been Nuked Mum and maybe a Cold War version of Chain of Command. Ideally what I would like to find is game mechanics similar to Easy-Eights’ BGWWII in modern form. That would be cool!

I smiled when I read about Modellers Mart, as the one in Clearwater Florida was where I got much of my original micro armour from, for both Cold War and WWII. Likewise, Quality Castings was my go-to supplier for WWII vehicle models in 15mm. So there has been quite a bit of parallel evolution going on both north and south of the border!

I also want to say I think your own line of 15mm vehicle kits are marvelous and I will thank you once again for a job well done. I know you are on hiatus for a while, but if you ever make the decision to jump back in, please tell me, as there are a few more models I’d like to get from you!

Cheers and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

[Sparker]

Yes similar stories to yours above really. Lots of experience in 6mm back in the day using Challenger 2000 or WRG Modern rules, but after 1989 a dearth of opponents so my activity long ago faded away, just the occasional solo 20mm game when inspired by Nick’s amazing Gyros Teller series of games, but nothing of significance.

So really very excited about the impending Battlefront Team Yankee project, I already have a large and varied range of 15mm figures and vehicles from a variety of sources so have something of a head start. Perfectly happy with the Flames of War ruleset myself – I know that intuitively it seems that rules so easy to play, so popular with ‘da yoof’, and with such a bent toward tourney play, must have something wrong with them! But actually, a little like ‘Black Powder’, once you’ve played a few times and analysed the outcomes taken in the round, at the holistic level they do consistently give credible outcomes.

Like ’em or loath ’em, I do think the net effect of BF’s Team Yankee will be to popularise a genre that has long been in decline apart from a few stellar outposts such as Nick’s efforts, and I think this can only be a Good Thing!

I will also be watching Ironfist Publishing’s purported ‘BattleGroup NORTHAG’ project with interest, again a rules system which consistently delivers credible results. It may be that, like my WW2 gaming, the BattleGroup rules become my default 20mm set and Flames of War my 15mm set…

http://sparkerswargames.blogspot.com.au/
'Blessed are the peacekeepers, for they shall need to be well 'ard'
Matthew 5:9

[Mike Bravo Minis]

I’m looking forward to what is coming out for it in 28mm – may even join in myself and jump on/try to create the bandwagon.  (Currently looking at some proposals for Dutch troops, oddly enough.)

If TFL come through with their non-Afghan modern variant of CoC, that’d generate more love for the genre too.

This may be me projecting my own aspirations, but some modern gaming that isn’t assymetric advance-to-ambush should be popular.

Dan

Mike Bravo Miniatures

[Rod Robertson]

Would it be presumptuous of me to suggest we create a thread for posting scenario ideas for Cold War games? I have lots of ideas and I’m sure everyone else here has great ideas too. Whaddya think?

Cheers and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

[kyoteblue]

I like the idea !!!!

[Mike Bravo Minis]

thirded!

[Iain Fuller]

I first started with 20mm and WRG rules with an old mate from school then I went to my first club in the mid-80’s where we played a lot of Challenger using 6mm (I bought OMG as well Rod but could never convince anyone to have a bash – did you ever get a game of it played?).

Since rekindling my interest in wargaming a few years ago I’ve dived back into 6mm using FFT3 which I really enjoy and are the standard set down at the club, I’ve got an Austrian Bgde plus my alt-history Poles/Nigerians with next up being a Soviet force and then either Belgians or Dutch.

For some reason the whole Team Yankee thing is beginning to right hack me off, it comes across sometime as if Cold War gaming is just being invented and it has left me about as underwhelmed as when ‘Big Sam’ took over the Hammers!

[irishserb]

Mike Bravo, The idea of 28mm figs for this period intrigues me.  Particularly as a recent 15mm modern game lead to a very involved and extended infantry fight, that became a bit tedious at 15mm.  It is probably the first time in more than 25 years of 15mm gaming that the infantry struck me as being tedious to handle.  I think age may be catching up with me a little.

Rod, Love the scenario idea.

Iain, Despite my excitement at seeing the recent Cold War  interest, I have to admit to having somewhat mixed feelings about Team Yankee.  I’m not a big fan of the FOW marketing approach, and didn’t adopt their rules, which basically eliminated me from playing WWII with other gamers, once the rules became popular.  The rules simply dominate local shops, conventions, and groups, nearly to the exclusion of all others.  But, I am hoping that the spike in interest catalyzes the production of new minis from all manufacturers of the period.  Maybe, I can finally get East Germans again (in 15mm, as opposed to my old 20mm figs) and QRF has been adding some interesting vehicles from some of the NATO nations.

[Shaun Travers]

I was a Cold War gamer for about 6 months in 1980-1981 as a teen.  but I recently have dug out my 6mm British, acquired some Soviets and played a few 6mm Cold War with Tank Wreck!  A dabbler with 34 years between games!

[CAG 19]

You can count me in for some CW action. I have just started collecting in 15mm to add to my existing skirmish level stuff as well as having a large amount of 6mm forces for Soviet, Brit and WG.  Plenty of terrain as well

[Sparker]

We’ve got us a convoy! Cold War gaming is back!

http://sparkerswargames.blogspot.com.au/
'Blessed are the peacekeepers, for they shall need to be well 'ard'
Matthew 5:9

[Barks]

I like a bit of Cold War. I’ll go 15mm, but 6mm or smaller is really cool.

My blog: Wargaming with Barks

[Rod Robertson]

Breaker, breaker Sparker. We’re passing 01 and we’re 5 X 5, so that’s a big 10-4, out!

[Mike Bravo Minis]

which period gets the most love, 70s, early 80s, late 80s? I’m having uniform headaches…

[willz]

Been there, done it,  lived it, loved it.

[kyoteblue]

I got 3 of Irishserbs Brads put together and 3 Zvezda Brads to do, then paint them all.  Still need to order some infantry.

[Nick Turner]

In answer to Mike Bravo, has to be mid 80s, because I was there! The 60s should not be forgotten, especially seeing Sparker’s game, with the thought of Conquerors as well.

[Sparker]

Yep I’m with Nick on this one – Mid 80’s for me:

1. Good mix of gear changing over within armies: UK Chieftain/Chally1 and FV432/Warrior; US M60/M1, M113/Brads, W Germans and clients can have Leo 1s or 2s (still not made up my mind with I prefer aesthetically) and the GSFG had a handful of T-80s.

2. The quasi historical framework is there for you, Gen Sir John Hacketts WW3, within which you find all the relevant novels, Red Army, Chieftains, The Red – Black – Green Effect, and of course Team Yankee which is the basis for the first Battlefront ruleset.

3. Good soundtrack in the 80s, including the classic Nena’s 99 Luftbalon!

3. Its when I was wearing (temperate) DPM!

http://sparkerswargames.blogspot.com.au/
'Blessed are the peacekeepers, for they shall need to be well 'ard'
Matthew 5:9

[William Jones]

Not a lot going on, a nice peaceful day, so catching up reading old threads and trying to get caught up on where things are now.  Lots of good stuff in the back pages!

Anyway, to the question:

Korean War, 15mm: Definitely doing a large, 15mm Korean War historical project, perhaps modestly branch out into an alternative history with the UN, MacArthur or both pushing past the Yalu and newer and better equipment coming in.  Stalin IIs and IIIs versus M-47 Pattons and so on.  Maybe.  Big commitment, planning to use BKC or CWC rules.  Sabre Squadron for some smaller actions.  Task Force Smith for example.

Korean War, 20mm:  Probably 20mm Korean War with Crossfire rules or something more skirmish and ambush oriented, and a white wargame set in the snow.  Will violate history by using the tiger paint jobs on US tanks from Operation Ripper in the Spring of 1951.  Mostly the point will be to play very small unit operations.

Vietnam 20mm or 15mm:  Rules will either be Giac My or The Men of Company B.  Which rules set will dictate scale.  One or the other, not both.

Tankety-tank!  Clankety-clank! 6mm:  Rules will be Sabre Squadron.  Very torn on what historical conflict(s) if any.  Six Day War and Yom Kippur War are appealing (would have to do YKW in 15mm because Khurasan Egyptians) but feels a bit like a narrow and constricting approach.  More inclined to do some hypothetical conflicts such as PRC invasion of Taiwan ca. 1960s, PRC v. India, Pakistan v. India, Turkey v. Syria or Israel, or just ‘green and tan’.  Saw a great line about Khakistan on another thread; that would be fun.  1950s – 1970s.  Modest scale.  Looking more for intensity than sprawl.

 

[MartinR]

My Cold War stuff has generally been 6mm or 15mm, but  few years back I took the plunge into 2mm multibased stuff for large actions.

My on going WW3 campaign is set in 1981 as I instantly glaze over once the supertanks appear in the mid 1980s. The game is regulated using SPIs BAOR board game.

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

[Alvin Molethrottler]

I didn’t set out to be a Cold War gamer, when I got my collection we called it Ultra-modern. Fast forward 25 years or so and apparently those self and same figures now constitute a Cold War collection lol

I do modern and ultra-modern in 6mm now using Brigade Commander but before that Tankwreck and before that whatever Bruce Rea Taylor’s rules were called…

[Iain Fuller]

Having just played my first couple of games of Chain of Command I am also hoping that a Cold War adaptation is in the pipeline as it will be all I need to justify buying some of those lovely Elheim figures!

[Alan Millicheap]

For several years I’ve been doing 1985 in 6mm using Cold War Commander – I have a fair sized chunk of the Belgian 1st Corps and have just started on some Soviet opposition

[Rod Robertson]

 

To All:

I have been inspired by bishnak’s 3mm Bat. Reps. and have decided to try something new. Does anyone use operational level micro or pico armour games to generate tactical situations which they then play out in 10-12mm, 15mm, 20mm, or whatever larger figures and vehicles as new and separate games? I am in the process, the very slow process, of putting together company and combat team sized forces in 15mm and I am thinking of using my old 6mm micro armour to play large scale battles and then take snap-shots of parts of the large battles to run as tactical games afterward. Does anybody ever do this? I am interested to find out what others have done. I am thinking also of doing this at my gaming club, where we have a major 6mm battle in month one and then cherry-pick a few good tactical situations to fight out over the next two to three months. Feasible or just unnecessarily complicating matters?

Cheers and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

<span style=”font-family: ‘times new roman’, times, serif; font-size: 8pt;”></span>

[Iain Fuller]

Rod, that sounds like a great idea although wont you have to ‘pause’ the larger 6mm game to await the result of the  smaller scale actions?

Don’t want to seem like I’m putting out the negative waves as I really like the concept!

 

[Spurious]

Cold war… that seems like a thing I do. 

[Rod Robertson]

Ian Fuller:

I think that would bog down the process. What I envision is playing out the whole large scale game using fast-play rules like WRG Modern Combat and then revisiting local tactical battles/skirmishes as stand alone games. The stand alone games would not determine the outcomes of the large scale game as that would be too cumbersome and slow. I have already tried to fight tactical battles to determine out comes in bigger operational games with WWII micro armour and then 15mm’s and it took forever to resolve.

Cheers and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

[John D Salt]

The Cold War has always been my second favourite period after WW2, mainly because it was the war I trained for.

I have enjoyed especially the WRG modern rules in various incarnations, and in boardgames SPI’s “Firefight” and GDW’s “Team Yankee” and “Test of Battle”.

High on my list of things I don’t have time to do is an updated version of “Firefight”, stealing all the good ideas, but moving to 100m hexes, making the types of vehicles that can be used much more general, and making infantry easier to handle by lumping it into sections. One thing I have done is to re-write the Firefight anti-vehicle CRT so that the basic attack rating reflects hit probability, and a second attack differential reflects armour penetration. I have also revised the soft attack CRT so that weight of fire is directly proportional to probabilities of killing or suppression, and worked out some rules to enable consistent rating of SA or IF attacks depending on the mix of weapons or number of rounds used.

Because I am visualising a counter-based game, where it is pretty cheap to add a few more battalions’ worth of stuff, I thought it would be fun to have all the scenarios capable of being played over any of ten different time periods. The map and victory conditions woud not change (route-opening detachment and advance guard, task is to clear a route from A to B in X turns) but the orders of batle would be specified in general terms (Warpac engr pl, recce pl, tank pl and MR coy(-) vs NATO recce coy(-), say) and the specifics of the forces would depnd on the year being played and the WARPAC or NATO nation chosen (OK, not much difference for the WP apart from age of kit, but NATO could be Be, Br, Ca, Fr (some years), Ge, Ne or US).

The time periods would be chosen to correspond to particular “flashpoint years” when international crises of one sort or another made war seem more likely:

1945 Operation Unthinkable
1948 Berlin airlift
1953 East German rebellion
1956 Hungarian uprising
1962 Cuban missile crisis
1968 Prague Spring
1973 Yom Kippur War
1979 Invasion of Afghanistan
1983 Able Archer
1989 Fall of the Wall

With 3 to 6 years between periods, each includes the introduction of a few items of new kit or organisation, without changing beyond all recognition. Still, I think the possibility of varying years and nationalities in the same basic situation would give each scenario a considerable amount of replay value.

All the best,

John.

[bishnak]

Rod Robertson wrote:

To All: I have been inspired by bishnak’s 3mm Bat. Reps. and have decided to try something new. Does anyone use operational level micro or pico armour games to generate tactical situations which they then play out in 10-12mm, 15mm, 20mm, or whatever larger figures and vehicles as new and separate games? I am in the process, the very slow process, of putting together company and combat team sized forces in 15mm and I am thinking of using my old 6mm micro armour to play large scale battles and then take snap-shots of parts of the large battles to run as tactical games afterward. Does anybody ever do this? I am interested to find out what others have done. I am thinking also of doing this at my gaming club, where we have a major 6mm battle in month one and then cherry-pick a few good tactical situations to fight out over the next two to three months. Feasible or just unnecessarily complicating matters? Cheers and good gaming. Rod Robertson. <span style=”font-family: ‘times new roman’, times, serif; font-size: 8pt;”></span>

Hi Rod,

I’m going to do a similar thing, but at a higher level. I plan to use the old West End Games “Air & Armor” board game to do high end tactical / operational manoeuvre involving brigades and divisions. Then when the board game generates a suitable battle, then ‘zoom in’ and play out the battle in either 6mm or 3mm, depending on size.

the board game has individual units moving, attacking and defending in multi ‘step’ groups. A ‘step’ is a strength element basically equating to a company. So battles can be up to multi-brigade per side (I’d do these in 3mm, using FFT3 or 5CBC rules), down to actions involving individual companies (I’d do these in 6mm or even 15mm using FFT3 at 1:1, or FOW TY, or 5CCC).

The A&A boardgame is really an excellent game with some great mechanisms, and should generate some really interesting games.

bish

bish
http://tinytanks3mm.blogspot.com.au/

[Rod Robertson]

bishnak:

This sounds very interesting indeed! I look forward to reading the reports on your blog. Thanks again for your inspiring posts and lovely photos. You, Just Jack and others keep me going when life tries to block me from doing this hobby so your efforts and sharing are most appreciated.

Cheers and good gaming.

Rod Robertson.

[Darryl Smith]

It was Cold War that got me into miniatures. Saw a demo of Tacforce at Miami, by my now long time gaming friends The G Dog and Dances With Clydesdales (their monikers on the site that shall not be named). Started cutting classes to head down to the Boardwalk, a hobby shop (still going strong with boardgames and modeling, but no miniatures) in Cincinnati. Would drool over that case of CinC for some time. I started collecting West Germans. Knew nothing about their organization or weapons, so I started buying a ton of modern rules to get some framework. We gamed a lot with WRG, and as young folks do, we put WAY too many vehicles on the board and would take hours upon hours to play. This morphed into other areas of gaming, and we came back to the Cold War period (we called it moderns then) when Combined Arms came out.

Now I have some 1/285th scale Arab-Israeli War to pint (got rid of those Bundeswehr some years ago), and I keep looking at 15mm Cold War period, but more in “colonial” settings. We the recent spate of 15mm Cold War figures out there, I do now own a platoon of Dutch, and plan to get some East Germans for some winter scenarios.

I do have Korean War air miniatures, and had some 10mm land forces, but let those go to create some focus (which I fail at every time). I have a few Eureka North Koreans. Wouldn’t mind doing land war Korea, but that is a future project.

Buckeye Six Actual
https://ambushedinthealley.blogspot.com/
http://foragecaps.blogspot.com/
http://germancolonialgaming.blogspot.com/

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