Decent book with squad to company level TO&Es?

[Ivan Sorensen]

Is this a thing that exists? A book that collects a bunch of different TO&E’s at the squad, platoon or company level ?
You can find TO&E for this or that unit or nationality but usually scattered across a million books. It’d be nice to have a fairly collected source.

[Rod Robertson]

Ivan:

I don’t know of any recent print book that offers what you’re looking for and is also reliably accurate. The now defunct bayonetstrength.com website was good for that sort of stuff and there might be some Nafziger publications out there for such low level data.  Somewhere out there, there are cached and archived copies of Gary’s Bayonet Strength TOE’s but I have never found them in their entirety. What I did was to hunt down electronic copies of WWII infantry training manuals to figure out what low level organizations I needed at various points during the war.

Ian Shaw’s “WWII Army Organiisations and Equipment (3 ed.)” by Tabletop Games is set at a higher level than what you ideally want but it can be useful at the company and the platoon level for some forces despite its age. It’s accuracy is sometimes suspect but it is certainly comprehensive.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160425143250/http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/General/site_map.htm

http://www.nafzigercollection.com

Cheers.

Rod Robertson.

[Rod Robertson]

Ivan:

I don’t know why the Nafziger Collection link came out the way it did and I can’t seem to fix it. Just click on “Home”.

Cheers.

Rod Robertson.

[Shaun Travers]

Hello Ivan,

Way back in 2008 I was reading a thread on TMP that mentioned a small booklet called:

The Gamer’s Guide to WWII Small Unit Organizations and TOEs (by Bill Rutherford).

I bought it and use it all the time.  It is a dense (3 columns a pages in what looks like 6 point font!) 32 pages that is a collection of many nationalities company, platoon and section level organisation.

Here is the link to the TMP thread with more info  on the book (about 12th post down – Seattle Gamer):

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=142154

It is available from OldGloy15s but the link in TMP is not longer current.  Here is the new link.  It is still $11.

http://oldglory15s.com/The-Gamers-Guide-5027.htm?categoryId=-1

 

[John D Salt]

Ivan Sorensen wrote:

Is this a thing that exists?

Assuming for a moment that it doesn’t, what would you expect from such a book in terms of

1. Coverage of nationalities
2. Coverage of arms and services (infanty, armour, recce, special forces, arty, &c.)
3. Coverage of period (back to WW1? Forward to Korea?)
4. Level of detail (ranks, weapons, ammo loads)
5. Additional information (terminology in the original langage, tactical formations, tactical procedures)

…and which would you consider most important?

All the best,

John.

[shelldrake]

I have books on WW2 Japan & Germany, know of a WW2 Soviet, but they tend to focus on platoon+ and only brush over the lower levels.

I have on on the VC/NVA for the Vietnam war, can find some on the modern US (it is surprising which military pams you can find only, especially the USMC).

But one book to rule them all and at the publishers bind them, I don’t know of any.

[Hafen von Schlockenberg]

I second Shaun’s recommendation–excellent booklet,packed with exactly the sort of info you’re looking for.

The question is, is there a source closer to you? You might try an email to Old Glory 15s.

Or else be prepared to swallow the shipping charges.

[MartinR]

I still refer to Ian Shaws ancient tome mentioned above. The WW1 data book by Ellis isn’t bad coverage for the whole of WW1.

It would be a monumental task to bring together all the official TO&E for various subunits, even assuming the records still exist and are accurate, let alone whether they were adhered to (e.g. how many Russian tank Destroyer brigades really did have an attached tank regiment?).

Shame the old bayonetstrength site died, Gary made a really good job if it.

The KStN site is interesting, but again, it is patchy and there is considerable divergence in reality.

A more general observation is that in a war involving tens of millions of people where the basic currency was divisions and the small change was battalions, no one at the time was hugely interested in keeping detailed records of what each platoon was armed with, let alone each section.

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

[Ivan Sorensen]

Well, I took a chance on that “gamers guide”. Shipping was 8 bucks so thats not insurmountable.

With any of this info, I find that “good enough” is often as good as it’ll get.
As Martin suggests, it’s likely an impossible task.

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