Home Forums Horse and Musket American Civil War Design problems with river hexes

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  • #108279
    Norm S
    Participant

    My Hexon terrain uses ‘in hex’ river features, but I am having problems getting my rules t reflect how smoothbore armed units that can only fire 1 hex, can engage with units on the other side of the waterway, which is essentially 2 hexes away, even though the waterway (Bull Run) is know to be narrow enough for smoothbore fire to reach the other side.

    I have done a blog post, more really to highlight the problem of trying to shoe-horn new rules into existing systems.

    LINK
    http://battlefieldswarriors.blogspot.com/2019/01/tf-on-design-problems-with-rivers.html

    #108284
    Grimheart
    Participant

    Possibly the easiest solution would be to treat river hexes as a zero hex for calculating fire range?

    Interest include 6mm WW2, 6mm SciFi, 30mm Old West, DropFleet, Warlords Exterminate and others!

    #108285
    Norm S
    Participant

    I think that may be a solution, but to prevent anomaly, the fire would be best shown with the fire actually coming from the river hex itself to preserve fire arcs.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by Norm S.
    #108292
    Norm S
    Participant

    Some wise words from one of the commentators to the blog, proposes treating crossable and non-crossable under the same mechanics … up to the point that a unit wants to actually charge / move across the water and exit the far bank.  This allows 1 unit to enter the water hex and would not offend the principles of the current rules.

    #108306
    MartinR
    Participant

    Those Hexon hexes are often big enough to stuff a unit or two onto the actual river Bank. I also made up a load of river sections from plastic  which conform to the hexsides so I can do hex edge rivers if I need to.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #108325
    Norm S
    Participant

    Martin, I remember seeing those hexside pieces and should really do a set myself, however, these rules are for sharing, so in some ways, I am obligated to go with the user having the least path of resistance, which is probably Kallistra’s own river sections.

    #108347
    Fredd Bloggs
    Participant

    Make your basic range, 2 hexes….

    #108348

    At some point you have to let the word “game” take over and let the chips fall where they may.  If the river is uncrossable, I’d not allow a unit to occupy the river hex.   So what if they can’t shoot across.  They have smooth bore muskets.  They are supposed to be inferior to rifled muskets.  If you are worried about getting shot at without reply, then back up a hex.  Let the enemy come to you.  Artillery can also remedy a hopeless situation like this.

    If the river is crossable, then units entering the hex are assumed to be in the process of crossing the river and are at a disadvantage.

    I really don’t like the 0 range hex.  It feels kind of a forced, one off rule.

    Finally, if you REALLY want to be able to shoot across the river, add one to the range of the musket and the rifle.   I think you will still find you are in the same situation, this time with the rifle armed unit standing an extra hex back, out of range of the musket armed unit.

    Hope that made some sense. 😉

    John

     

     

    John

    "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    --Abraham Lincoln

    #108350
    vtsaogames
    Participant

    John makes sense. I don’t know Hexon hexes but I did game test for SPI (Simulations Publication Inc) back in the day. Their solution was to have streams and rivers run along the hex-side rather than in the hexes. That would nullify the problem, if it can be done in the first place.

    This too shall pass

    #108470

    Running along the edge of the hex would be ideal.  However, Hexon tiles all have rivers running through the hex.  Thus the conundrum.

    John

    "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    --Abraham Lincoln

    #108472
    Tony Hughes
    Participant

    We tried hexes, a mate was convinced he could make them work and they would be so much easier than measuring.

    After about a dozen attempts in various periods he gave up. This kind of problem came up in one form or another every time. If you solved one issue it caused another issue under difference circumstances and so on.

    I’ve never seen a system that is anywhere near the tactical level that doesn’t take abstractions of facing, moving and range beyond what I’m prepared to accept.

    Tony of TTT

     

    #108473
    Norm S
    Participant

    Thanks all. I came to a workable solution that didn’t bring bring additional pressure on existing rules and also accomodated 2 hex deep (wide) rivers. essentially one side (only) can occupy a river hex, as with other terrain, whether crossable or not, determines what it or others can then do. Rules governing hex occupation and musket ranges are not brought under any pressure and peculiar things do not start to happen by advantaging the smoothbore or disadvantaging the rifled musket.

    Outside of that, I pretty much take the point of all that is said above, including Tony’s reservations, though as a long time hex and chit gamer, hex play is mostly intuitive for me … though not particularly pretty!

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 3 months ago by Norm S.
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