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14/09/2022 at 00:55 #177962
OotKust
ParticipantWithout naming them, a couple of would-be manufacturers of gaming figures seem to not want to at all.
Bad enough figure ranges change hands; then we’re left hanging with time delays and set up problems. Not being able to buy some few significant (and a lot more when they’re done) for over a year means nothing to those who want to see them.
I can’t see figures because they have no pics, though I’m sure they have them as many others are present. Then after all the down time, which could hardly have been positive, they still go on ‘holiday’?
Call me age-ist if you want- but I don’t think enthusiastic retirees as amateurs should be entering ‘business’ if all they want is a hobby chore.
cheers
14/09/2022 at 07:46 #177970Mike
KeymasterI think people deserve better service. The worst service I get when buying online has always been from people selling wargames related stuff. I find that etsy and eBay are often better, maybe due to the feedback/review system?
I have been sworn at, and threatened by one seller who tried to report me to PayPal as a scam artist, even though I had paid for the goods and was the customer. He was so nasty I blocked his IP at my email server to stop his vitriol from coming through. The various people at Paypal I dealt with to get my money back were appalled and have put him on a watch list. Too many reports and they would withdraw their service he was so nasty. Properly drained my energy dealing with him for weeks.
Mistakes happen, but owning them and putting them right quick sharp goes a long way.
14/09/2022 at 08:41 #177980OotKust
ParticipantWow thats pretty bad alright Mike.
Those who attack so quickly are typical perpetrators and dodgers I’ve seen in the past, but never to that level. And to the contrary, over a long period I had some excellent contacts online and others in person locally.
However the trend I’ve suffered leaves a cold shiver with you- why would you do so much to disenfranchise people who WANT TO give you money. And I really want to get these units finished one day.
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dave
14/09/2022 at 09:25 #177983Ian Marsh
ParticipantBad enough figure ranges change hands; then we’re left hanging with time delays and set up problems. Not being able to buy some few significant (and a lot more when they’re done) for over a year means nothing to those who want to see them. I can’t see figures because they have no pics, though I’m sure they have them as many others are present.
As someone who has a few dormant ranges bought from other people, I will say that all of them have defects that need rectifying before being brought back into production. For example, I am currently, if slowly, remaking the moulds for Vexillia’s 15mm Late Medievals because the existing moulds are in terrible condition, with badly rusted locator studs. Plus half of them are made in a rubber that has a high sulphur content and discolours pewter. The production master figures haven’t been cleaned up properly, with quite evident mould lines. The range will cost more to fix than I paid for it. The work is therefore being fitted in between other mould making and casting.
Similarly, I have the old 15mm Oddzial Osmy Napoleonics, all of which have bayonets on the wrong side of the musket to be fixed (rectifying this is very fiddly work). And a 40mm range of Late Dark Ages Saxons none of which have bases, because they were done for a museum and had resin bases (no moulds provided). Plus new photographs for 2,000 codes… particularly for those that don’t have even a poor picture. (I managed to process another 15 yesterday in what was a full day’s work to produce commercially acceptable pictures.) Some of these ranges have also been bought with a view to eventually, not immediately, bringing them back into production after refocusing the business.
At least I know how much work is involved and am still producing figures and fulfilling orders for the main lines. Others buy ranges or businesses and all too quickly are made aware of the work involved and can’t cope. Some even discover that they can’t operate a casting machine properly or cut moulds that work….
Ian
Fighting 15s
www.fighting15s.com14/09/2022 at 09:26 #177984Tony Hughes
ParticipantPersonally I have found most wargaming companies, including the one-person, part-time, operations to be streets ahead in service terms compared to most on-line sellers. There are bound to be exceptions and maybe I’m just lucky that I haven’t had much to do with any of the bad ones you describe.
I do agree that there are small sellers who don’t appreciate the work even a small online business involves and find it difficult to cope if demand exceeds their ability to deliver in a timely fashion. What I can’t agree with is that ‘amateur’ businesses shouldn’t be in the wargaming market. If you exclude them then you’d probably cut the choice in the UK market in half and some of today’s respected names in the industry would never have got started.
Tony of TTT
14/09/2022 at 09:53 #177986Jim Webster
ParticipantJust to second Tony here, in that I’ve obviously been lucky and avoided the jerks and scam artists.
They are doubtless out there.
I can also follow Ian’s comment about the need to get purchased ranges up to speed.
I think one issue is the economics. Most the guys I deal with are ‘microbusinesses’ some of whom don’t have full time staff, mainly because they cannot afford full time staff.
Setting aside scammers and fools, I think we get what we pay for. GW is a fully commercial company, plenty of paid staff, a lot of competent professionals employed.
A ten figure Space Marine Tactical Squad seems to be about £25
Thanks to companies stepping in any buying the moulds etc, I can buy four Napoleonic Royal Marines for £4.60
Yes there’s a difference in materials, size, quality, and the fact that one comes ready assembled and the other comes as a pack of 179 components
https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/
14/09/2022 at 11:56 #178002irishserb
ParticipantI’ve had a few bad experiences over the years, but I have to say that the overwhelming majority of miniatures companies that I’ve dealt with over the years provide better service than the majority of non-hobby companies that I deal with on a regular basis.
I don’t always get what I want, but I would be hard pressed to say that I deserve better from the hobby industry. What does any of us deserve?
No, in my experience, I probably get as good or better service than I can reasonably expect in most instances, and in all honesty, am tremendously appreciative of the companies that have helped to make my hobby possible.
14/09/2022 at 16:22 #178010Sane Max
ParticipantI also want to cast a vote for ‘Most of the sellers I have dealt with have been AOK’ and that was often despite my own efforts to be inept when ordering.
Hell, after Wargames Foundry kept promising me an order had been sent when it hadn’t, they sent me pretty much a complete Macedonian army in 28mm….. and then when the same order arrived again told me to keep it!
I go into the deal with the knowledge that many of these guys are pretty much amateurs at the whole retail lark, and usually cut more slack as a result, but I have not yet lost actual money.
Maybe I am more careful than others, I very rarely deal with individuals I have met on Facebook.
*edit* I have just paid for the Epic 40k rulebooks sight unseen from a chap in Korea….. he seemed very nice on Facebook, i hope this isn’t the transaction that proves me wrong 🙁
14/09/2022 at 16:29 #178011Geof Downton
ParticipantI have on a couple of occasions over the last year ordered stuff which never appeared, and received no responses to my queries. In both cases I had paid by PayPal and was able to reclaim my money through them. I don’t mind waiting, but need to know. I had no communication from the seller (rather than PayPal) in either instance, so have no idea if my orders were even received, so it’s possible that the poor service was from PayPal rather than the vendors.
One who puts on his armour should not boast like one who takes it off.
Ahab, King of Israel; 1 Kings 20:1114/09/2022 at 16:43 #178013willz
ParticipantI have always had very good service from all wargame related transactions carried out on the internet or by dealing with wargaming companies direct. Even buying items in the 7o’s which required writing to the company, sending a postal order awaiting return port for a catalog (which may have had pictures or illustrations). Sending off order awaiting post again. normally this would take several weeks, still even back in the 7o’s companies run by enthusiastic retirees or professionals managed to produce and deliver wargame figures that arrived and they were a pleasure to deal with. Ordering on the internet is even easier today for wargamers by following some common sense rules, always order from a reliable source, I always use Paypal (lots of protection), these days I don’t buy from overseas as HMRC charges too much. It is fairly easy to find photos of your required wargame figures on the internet (somebody always buys figures before me).
We are spoilt for choice with all the figure companies available for us to use.
14/09/2022 at 18:15 #178017Not Connard Sage
ParticipantThis moan has been going on forever.
If I’m dealing with a multinational, I expect better service, and expect to get it.
If I’m dealing with a bloke in a shed knocking out toy soldiers that I want, I would like better service, and if I get it, it’s a bonus.Better that what though?
Now, would anyone like to chase a few more ancient wargaming memes? Is the hobby dying, or why is the stuff I want so expensive?
Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.
14/09/2022 at 18:18 #178018Mike
KeymasterIs the hobby dying, or why is the stuff I want so expensive?
The Hobby TM and or Greying TM?
14/09/2022 at 19:23 #178029Not Connard Sage
ParticipantIs the hobby dying, or why is the stuff I want so expensive?
The Hobby TM and or Greying TM?
Both.
See also; why don’t you take the hobby seriously/why do you take the hobby so seriously, and that lovely old standard “you don’t play toy soldiers the way I think you ought to play to soldiers (i.e. like me) and I’m going to explain why you should” {insert pic of child smoking pipe}
Fun for all the family now the nights are drawing in 🙂
Ah, here it is
Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.
14/09/2022 at 21:17 #178033OotKust
ParticipantAs someone who has a few dormant ranges bought from other people, I will say that all of them have defects that need rectifying before being brought back into production.
Thanks for the input Ian- [its NOT YOU!] I do actually understand all that [and have been on that side of the fence back in 90’s; same time I taught myself hand coding html etc. and assisted/trained mostly free of charge people to learn and use/ repair software glitches for Macintosh.
I think your recognition of problems to ‘correct’ isn’t always as pervasive; in my case I know what I want, and I’m trying to match older ranges too, so some ‘support’ would be appreciated. The previous owner couldn’t have been more helpful for some clutz the other side of the planet. In return I added other things that I might not have otherwise bought from him (quid pro quo?).
>>I also want to cast a vote for ‘Most of the sellers I have dealt with have been AOK’
>> Personally I have found most wargaming companies, including the one-person, part-time, operations to be streets ahead in service terms compared to most on-line sellers.
I don’t disagree with either of these comments and wasn’t my intention to slander all ‘one-man shops’ in the same boat. As for on-line- its merely a presentation point for sales for me; thus if you are going to catalogue, at least do it properly!
Similarly I don’t engage with the mass-produced latest gimmicky ‘complete’ armies that require no effort to accumulate from boxes.
However, benchmark producers like Perrys’, and others, DO a superior job. Witness my recent quick fire order arriving in 12 days !! Superb.
Another ‘old hand’ book business [with staff but apparently no morals] took my money this year, shipped nothing, couldn’t be bothered telling me for a month that in fact they didn’t have the books you could order on-line. Offered alternatives we had to try 6 different titles before I got any value from my ‘purchase’. Even then I felt I was ripped off. That is apparently the level of fraud being committed via credit card charging these days.
And yes I too do go back to postal notes [payment] and letters to the maker back in the 70’s. Of course I could buy Airfix locally, but painting them was such a pain!
cheers dave
15/09/2022 at 08:14 #178037willz
ParticipantAnd yes I too do go back to postal notes [payment] and letters to the maker back in the 70’s. Of course I could buy Airfix locally, but painting them was such a pain! cheers dave
I always found painting Airfix figures a joy to paint, learnt my painting and modelling skills on Airfix figures. All hail Airfix figures😀.
15/09/2022 at 08:26 #178039Not Connard Sage
ParticipantAnd yes I too do go back to postal notes [payment] and letters to the maker back in the 70’s. Of course I could buy Airfix locally, but painting them was such a pain! cheers dave
I always found painting Airfix figures a joy to paint, learnt my painting and modelling skills on Airfix figures. All hail Airfix figures
.
When I read questions like “what glue do I use to stick a plastic model together?” I always smile. Obviously a younger chap asking. 😉
A generation of gamers grew up with Airfix. I bought my first metal figures in 1971. Everything before that was Airfix, including the military vehicles. That Sherman was a bit iffy…:0
Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.
15/09/2022 at 08:46 #178046Sane Max
ParticipantA generation of gamers grew up with Airfix. I bought my first metal figures in 1971. Everything before that was Airfix, including the military vehicles. That Sherman was a bit iffy…:0
Plus ca change – I am rebuilding my epic army and it’s mostly metal proxies and stand-ins – one lad I spoke to on the Net was literally incredulous. ‘Metal wargames figures? You can get Metal Wargames Figures? Why?’
15/09/2022 at 15:29 #178071willz
ParticipantA generation of gamers grew up with Airfix. I bought my first metal figures in 1971. Everything before that was Airfix, including the military vehicles. That Sherman was a bit iffy…:0 Plus ca change – I am rebuilding my epic army and it’s mostly metal proxies and stand-ins – one lad I spoke to on the Net was literally incredulous. ‘Metal wargames figures? You can get Metal Wargames Figures? Why?’
The modern generation huh! “we had a handful of hot gravel for breakfast”😀 when I was growing up.
15/09/2022 at 15:38 #178073Deleted User
MemberI’ve been that asshole customer and I’ve experienced asshole customers but I don’t thik anyone deserve anything. The service provided is what the business wants to provide, if I’m not happy with it I’ll simply not buy there again. Being at the whims of the business can be frustrating and its a lot of why I decided to make my own and only buy minis for inspirations and study.
15/09/2022 at 16:00 #178075Mike Headden
ParticipantThe modern generation huh! “we had a handful of hot gravel for breakfast”
when I was growing up.
Oooh! Well hark at you with your “hot” gravel, Mr hoity-toity.
We had to get up six hours before we went to bed, walk thirty mile, in us bare feet, through t’snow, to work 36 hours a day in’t mill, what we ‘ad t’pay mill owner 6d a day to do, and then we’ d walk back ‘ome, eat a few crumbs of cold gravel and then our mothers and fathers would murder us in our beds. Then we’d get up next day and do it all over.
Tell young folk that nowadays and they don’t believe you!
🙂 🙂 🙂
There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data
15/09/2022 at 16:46 #178077Norm S
ParticipantAs a member of the Airfix generation, I am somewhat amazed at what our little hobby has available for us these days. From over 50 years of postal order to credit card, I have generally come across only good traders and largely appreciate all the support ghat such a niche hobby enjoys. We are lucky. In particular, those traders who give up their weekends for wargame shows – thank you.
15/09/2022 at 23:07 #178084OotKust
Participantbut I don’t thik anyone deserve anything. The service provided is what the business wants to provide, if I’m not happy with it I’ll simply not buy there again. Being at the whims of the business can be frustrating
There’s clearly a disconnect when you cant buy models that you want to match. Yes I’ve been ‘gamed’ by sellers and dont use them ever again and privately steer others away. Like the guys who sell ‘fake’ flags- wrong designs and wording- most of their customers wouldnt give a toss. Why I spent 25 years making and painting my own…
As to the arrogance of doing what they want and not ‘feeding’ the populace, well they will blithely carry on doing that and eventually die and its all gone again.
Service means a lot, and it comes with rewards, in better sales. “People” appreciate being listened too, and reward can be a fulfillment all of its own.
16/09/2022 at 08:56 #178087Mike
Keymasterbut I don’t thik anyone deserve anything. The service provided is what the business wants to provide, if I’m not happy with it I’ll simply not buy there again.
Quite a few fall short of providing the legal bare minimum for the country they operate in.
Customers at least deserve the sellers to operate legally..16/09/2022 at 12:37 #178112Etranger
Participant…..
When I read questions like “what glue do I use to stick a plastic model together?” I always smile. Obviously a younger chap asking.
A generation of gamers grew up with Airfix. I bought my first metal figures in 1971. Everything before that was Airfix, including the military vehicles. That Sherman was a bit iffy…:0
To which the answer is of course Banana oil…
I happily remember those ‘how to convert’ articles in Airfix Magazine & even tried a couple – Foreign Legion into ACW Zouaves & AWI British grenadiers into Napoleonic Austrians. I think there’s a couple still knocking around in the depths of the ‘junk box’.
16/09/2022 at 12:53 #178115irishserb
ParticipantMike Headden, You forgot “uphill”, as in …” had to walk barefoot, in the snow, uphill, both ways…” Or maybe, you didn’t. Maybe you just had it easy!
16/09/2022 at 14:40 #178116willz
ParticipantBrilliant😀
16/09/2022 at 14:42 #178117willz
ParticipantThe modern generation huh! “we had a handful of hot gravel for breakfast”
when I was growing up.
Oooh! Well hark at you with your “hot” gravel, Mr hoity-toity. We had to get up six hours before we went to bed, walk thirty mile, in us bare feet, through t’snow, to work 36 hours a day in’t mill, what we ‘ad t’pay mill owner 6d a day to do, and then we’ d walk back ‘ome, eat a few crumbs of cold gravel and then our mothers and fathers would murder us in our beds. Then we’d get up next day and do it all over. Tell young folk that nowadays and they don’t believe you!
Brilliant😀
16/09/2022 at 14:44 #178118Guy Farrish
ParticipantEtranger: Banana oil?
Hardening off plasticine conversions on figures (hats, plumes, packs etc before milliput) and maybe stiffening soft plastic (bayonets for example) before painting but I never stuck a model together with it. (maybe that’s why NCS’ Sherman looked wonky?)
Nothing to do with bananas by the way – just smells of them – sometimes used as an artificial flavouring, though I never ate my Airfix figs so can’t say if it tastes okay.
16/09/2022 at 15:23 #178121Not Connard Sage
ParticipantEtranger: Banana oil? Hardening off plasticine conversions on figures (hats, plumes, packs etc before milliput) and maybe stiffening soft plastic (bayonets for example) before painting but I never stuck a model together with it. (maybe that’s why NCS’ Sherman looked wonky?) Nothing to do with bananas by the way – just smells of them – sometimes used as an artificial flavouring, though I never ate my Airfix figs so can’t say if it tastes okay.
Nope, NCS used Humbrol Polystyrene Cement. In a foil tube, like toothpaste.
I’m allergic to nanas
:p
Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.
16/09/2022 at 17:28 #178127Guy Farrish
ParticipantWell you learn something new everyday (not your allergy to bananas NCS), but apparently ‘Banana oil’ is isoamyl acetate or amyl acetate, which does dissolve polystyrene, so would stick Airfix kits together.
But not melt the figures which weren’t polystyrene.
16/09/2022 at 17:48 #178129Not Connard Sage
ParticipantBTW, the Sherman was just iffy. One of those ‘it’s Sherman-like so it’ll do’ models that Airfix were wont to produce – see also their Tiger and Panther, or…just about any military vehicle they punted out. 🙂
Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.
16/09/2022 at 18:12 #178130Guy Farrish
ParticipantYes, I was being flippant about the wonkiness
– I’d never considered trying to glue models with banana oil.
Airfix’s relaxed attitude to prototype representation didn’t bother me when I started making them.
More worrying was the collection of a perfect set of fingerprints on most models courtesy of overenthusiastic squeezing of said ‘toothpaste’ tube of cement.
By the time I realised the problems (and I’ve read loads of fascinating excuses why – Bovington examples that had settled on their suspension was a good one) I was switching to 1/300 and many Airfix had bitten the dust as air rifle targets Mk1.
16/09/2022 at 18:39 #178134Deleted User
Member@OotKust @Mike
The way I see it businesses deserves the customers they cultivate. I don’t “deserve” better service, its a nice added value but as a consumer its up to me to research the product and providers before deciding who I want to do business with.I think to me the word “deserve” feels too demanding.
16/09/2022 at 23:11 #178138OotKust
ParticipantI think to me the word “deserve” feels too demanding.
You may be correct to a point, however I’m not a self-pretentious yuppie or GenZ expectantly awaiting everything being handed to me on a plate or on demand.
The societal norms have been well and truly broken by the ‘entitled’ classes demanding whatever they want. Hence former rock stars/ celebs/ wealthy going to jail, or committing suicide themselves, because what they were doing was found to be ‘unreasonable’ in social context, regardless of laws. You only have to look at the idiotic results of US leadership to see how blatently perverted ‘reasonable’ has become.
And the most unfortunate side effect of technolgy acceptance and availability is the notion that everything you see is the truth. When clearly snapshots cannot define the full story, yet people are persuded, indeed the gullible, conned. The innocent also get affected by such malice or deceit being perpetrated. But I digress…
All I’m suggesting is that those who broker themselves as ‘merchants’ should, reasonably, make available their wares and profer such support as pictures [!] so you don’t have to answer idiot enquiries when the product is not clear.
cheers… normal transmission may now resume ____
17/09/2022 at 01:37 #178144Etranger
ParticipantBTW, the Sherman was just iffy. One of those ‘it’s Sherman-like so it’ll do’ models that Airfix were wont to produce – see also their Tiger and Panther, or…just about any military vehicle they punted out.
Apparently they measured up bits of various Shermans, not realising that there were different versions, which explains that and a lot of the other Frankentanks that they produced. Their later kits eg the Crusader were much more accurate. Did Airfix listen to their customers?
FWIW I never used banana oil either, just the ordinary model glue. There was one brand of those which did have a strong ‘orangy’ smell, which was a bit offputting.
17/09/2022 at 07:31 #178146Mike
Keymaster17/09/2022 at 08:01 #178147Alex
ParticipantI’ll just chip in here that if a seller wants me to give them a slice of my hobby money, they need two things:-
a picture of the item in question
a website that works properly and has a properly integrated shopping cart
After that, if service/a product is poor and not explained to me (eg. A period of illness in a one man band) then I will happily tell the world and its dog about how crap that company/their product is.
Alex (Does Hobby Stuff)
practising hobby eclecticism17/09/2022 at 09:06 #178163Jim Webster
ParticipantI’d second the need for a picture, but I’m perfectly happy to phone, talk to the chap and put in my order 🙂
After all the seller is the chap who hopefully loves the figures and can give me ideas about stuff I never noticed on the website. I’ve done this many many times with Irregular Miniatures 🙂
https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/
17/09/2022 at 12:24 #178166Alex
ParticipantIf I’m having to phone the website has failed its purpose.
Having to deal with phone calls also costs a business more than online transactions in terms of time – time much better spent getting photos taken and uploaded!
Alex (Does Hobby Stuff)
practising hobby eclecticism17/09/2022 at 12:33 #178167Jim Webster
ParticipantI’d rather talk to a real person than faff about paying through a website. Especially when our broadband is so slow it can take a long time for the pages to load.
And talking to the guy lets me know what’s coming, and sells me stuff that isn’t even in production 🙂
It might take more time but it always means I spend morehttps://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/
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