Home Forums General General Do I Really want to Pay More For Wargames Figures?

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  • #148093
    Thomaston
    Participant

    I wonder if Games Workshop read this forum. Found out they’re giving away free minis each month in their store.
    Found out about the news here.

    Then again it’s only the big companies that can afford to do this to draw in new blood. I’m going to see if I can pop by and pick one up, purely for research I swear.

    Tired is enough.
    R-rated narcissism

    #148161
    Ian Marsh
    Participant

    so why the frick is the difference between average and good miniatures prices often a 50 percent price increase? It doesn’t cast me any more to cast a good miniature, than a crappy miniature

    Production cost is more than casting. Sculpting costs for better figures tend to cost more than for poor figures. One of my sculptors charges double what the other does. I eat these costs myself due to the low number of figures I release. If however I was producing a lot of the nicer sculpts I would look to cover my costs by charging more for the nicer sculpts. For example, say 5 figures a year of the better style would cost me £200 more to commission, I can swallow that cost myself. 10 figures a month of the better style however would be nearly £5000, not a cost I can afford to ignore.

    Also, VAT. Hello an extra 20%. Fighting 15s, for handy example, is VAT-registered and so its current offerings are more expensive to UK customers, but the comparative price to customers outside the VAT regime is good: 15mm Gladiator Miniatures are 42.5p inc VAT but about 35.5p ex VAT. The madaxeman podcast (I listened to the lot) doesn’t really compare like with like on prices because it’s an entirely UK-centric view. I’d deregister for VAT if my 12-month rolling turnover dropped low enough, but it wouldn’t change the price to non-EU customers or to EU customers from 1 January.

    Of course, I use to sell AB Figures at 70p inc VAT (58.3p ex VAT, better than the current 65p ex VAT) and had absolutely no trouble shifting them. I repeatedly got accused of price gouging, I assume by people who looked at the flat price in Australia and didn’t factor in overseas delivery at 16%-20% and VAT at 20%. And royalties in the UK of 40% for licensed castings (AB works differently from almost every other manufacturer, because the sculptor, Tony Barton, continues to earn from his figures when they are sold, guaranteeing him an income when he is no longer able to sculpt). Why are AB Figures so much more expensive? Royalties. Royalties that keep a very talented 15mm sculptor alive and producing. Factor out those royalties and AB Napoleonics could sell for around 40p.

    In the podcast, IIRC, I’m quoted as saying the main cost of a figure is not the material its made from. It’s true. Even using pewter at 2.4p per gram, there’s only 5p of metal in a 15mm ancients foot figure: use a cheaper metal and it’s less than 3p. Resin at 1.5p a gram and 1/8th the density of pewter will get material costs down to under half a penny. Those PSC plastic ancients, therefore, are still hugely more than their actual material cost. It’s the need to make a living that decides the price. Some businesses have lower outgoings and don’t have to price products to support a huge empire of shops and staff or to meet the expectations of investors, or to support the costs of just a small industrial unit. If you’re able to run your business from home and save industrial unit rent of thousands of pounds a year, you can sell your products cheaper.

    There are figure ranges at costs and qualities to suit everyone. Buying the most expensive, best-sculpted figures may be a complete waste if you haven’t the painting skills to do them justice. Block-painted dipped figures will look similar no matter the figure quality. Really broke? Then there are paper figures – but don’t expect a metal miniatures manufacturer to listen to anyone wax lyrical about them. 🙂

    Ian
    Fighting 15s
    www.fighting15s.com

    #148191
    Shahbahraz
    Participant

    Ok, so I appreciate I may be the exception here, but I am someone who for 20 years has been cash rich but time poor. (At one stage I went to get a mortgage, and the bank manager looked at my income and my savings and asked me; horrified.. what I spent it all on..  to which my answer was ‘whatever I feel like’) – and many of the gamers out there have a high disposable income.

    To me, the cost of figures, etc. is incidental, the limiting factor for my hobby is the time to paint it (I like to paint my own figures), and time and opponents to play. So I can get 20% off manufacturer x in a sale, and pay less than whatever for a figure.  But…  I am going to be investing a LOT of my time painting those. By the time I get them on the table, the figure cost is only a trivial part of the overall cost in my time/money equation.

    So generally I will happily pay the premium to get the figures whose style I like. So for ancients in 15mm… does Xyston do it? No? Corvus Belli? Battle Honours? – and will I need to chop bits off and work with greenstuff?  Similarly with all my WW2 or 28mm AWI, Ancients and Napoleonics. The overall cost of the figures disappears over use.

    I do agree to some extent, about hobby producers, I don’t think overall they hugely depress pricing, simply because most have only limited ranges, so if I want to do washer women of the war of Jenkins Ear, ok. If I want to do AWI forces in 28mm, then I will pick a producer with a) a comprehensive range, b) great sculpts c) reliabity d) longevity. a) and b) are interchangeable to some extent, provided the figure ranges are broadly compatible.

    The one cost that grinds my gears is postage. I know it’s outwith the control of most producers, but it means I have dismissed US producers. I am not prepared to make an order for £100 and pay an extra £40 for shipping and then £25 for customs/import processing.

    --An occasional wargames blog: http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.co.uk/ --

    #148232
    Cerdic
    Participant

    Well, this has been an interesting read.

    The simplistic answer to the title question is: some do, some don’t.

    At the end of the day it is all market driven, isn’t it. There are a myriad of business strategies used and there seems to be a space for all of them. On my blog, for example, I have listed over 200 manufacturers of 28mm historical figures alone! I haven’t even looked at the 28mm sci-Fi/fantasy types, the 20mm, the 15mm, the 10mm, the 6mm etc etc…

    Summat for everyone!

    My personal opinion is that the tightwad tendency does seem to be over-represented among wargamers. My other hobbies include cycling and old cars. You should see how much some of those people spend on their hobbies!

    #148242
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    Are many of us tightwads? Or is the truth that if we had the cash we wouldn’t be buying toy soldiers …. we’d be down at Tanks R Us buying a nice second-hand Jagdtiger and trying to smuggle it into the garage without our other half noticing? 🙂

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

    #148245
    Shahbahraz
    Participant

    Nah, those Jagdtigers don’t hold their resale value. In all seriousness though, having recently done the SoA survey on hobby expenditure for the year, how many of us are actually honest with our spouses, and with ourselves, on what we spend?

    --An occasional wargames blog: http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.co.uk/ --

    #148246
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    Living on my own these days there is no need to hide the spend from anyone, self included.

    In times gone by, I bought from trader’s sales (GW had some spectacular sales in times gone by) and bring & buy stalls, painted and played with stuff then sold it on at a profit to fund the next round of buying.

    Despite being quite up front about what I was buying and despite regularly paying off “red” bills by selling stuff, my other half regularly assumed I was spending far more than I was.

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

    #148247
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    Well, this has been an interesting read. The simplistic answer to the title question is: some do, some don’t. At the end of the day it is all market driven, isn’t it. There are a myriad of business strategies used and there seems to be a space for all of them. On my blog, for example, I have listed over 200 manufacturers of 28mm historical figures alone! I haven’t even looked at the 28mm sci-Fi/fantasy types, the 20mm, the 15mm, the 10mm, the 6mm etc etc… Summat for everyone! My personal opinion is that the tightwad tendency does seem to be over-represented among wargamers. My other hobbies include cycling and old cars. You should see how much some of those people spend on their hobbies!

    I rather resent the implication that I’m tight. I may have more disposable income than some (and far less than others), but that doesn’t mean I’d be overjoyed at paying even more for 50g of casting metal in a vaguely humanoid shape.

    I have, or have had, expensive hobbies too. I’ve probably spent much more on motorbikes and guitars than I ever will on miniatures, but that’s not the point.

     

    The part of your post that I’ve bolded suggests that there is money to be made from selling little metal men, otherwise there’d be fewer people doing it. 😉

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #148248
    Shahbahraz
    Participant

    200 companies? yes, but an awful lot of those are one man or woman operations, who do not make a living from it.

    The number of multi-employee wargames figures manufacturers would be what 50 at most?

    --An occasional wargames blog: http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.co.uk/ --

    #148253
    Thuseld
    Participant

    I am not tight, I just know what I can afford and what I can’t afford. So I have learnt patience. My lead pile is probably like a speck of dust compared to many of you out there, but it keeps me going, and it grows slightly each year, but never more than 100 6mm figures a year that get bought and remain unpainted.

    #148290
    Cerdic
    Participant

    Connard, you are clearly in the ‘not a tightwad’ camp! But you must admit that there are a fair few wargamers, especially on the Internet, who whinge about spending an extra twenty or thirty quid.

    My point about other hobbies is that, in my experience, there seems to be more…eagerness to spend money on something flashy.

    But yeah, there are a lot of people selling wargaming stuff so somebody somewhere is buying it!

    #148425
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    I agree, had I known what I know now I would not have sold 6mm sci-fi skirmish, nor 15mm fantasy skirmish. I would be selling 28mm, probably historicals in order to make at least minimum wage.

    Will you look to get into selling 28mms when circumstances allow?

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #148428
    Mike
    Keymaster

    No, no funds to start that sort of carry on!

    😀

    #148435
    Shahbahraz
    Participant

    What I would like is a broker. Someone who knows the hobby and has contacts. So for example, I would love to to commission a range of figures. I started looking into it two years ago, and the complexity of organising it myself put me off. As I said I am time poor, but I can scrape together cash.

    So my ideal would be someone who could match me to a sculptor, a caster and a retailer, organise it all, and I put up the cash, take my figures and retain a small residual in the range sold by someone else.

    One of the real arguments for paying more for better figures is that they have longevity…  standards and styles change, so what was an acceptable figure in 1990 is often not an acceptable figure now, but the Anthony Barton sculpted Sasanians I bought in 1995 or so, still stand comparison with current offerings. The same could not be said for many 1990s figures. Again; if I am going to spend 100s of hours with paintbrush in hand, then I want the army to look good on the table in 10 years time as well as today.

    --An occasional wargames blog: http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.co.uk/ --

    #148446
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    no funds to start that sort of carry on!

    Well, maybe one day it will come in scope for you!

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #149504
    Derek H
    Participant

    One of the real arguments for paying more for better figures is that they have longevity… standards and styles change, so what was an acceptable figure in 1990 is often not an acceptable figure now, but the Anthony Barton sculpted Sasanians I bought in 1995 or so, still stand comparison with current offerings. The same could not be said for many 1990s figures. Again; if I am going to spend 100s of hours with paintbrush in hand, then I want the army to look good on the table in 10 years time as well as today.

    I’m quite happily playing games with a load of Minifigs 15mm Napoleonics I bought almost forty years ago.   Not the best looking figures I own, but they’re painted and they look just fine on the table.

    #149526
    deephorse
    Participant

    One of the real arguments for paying more for better figures is that they have longevity… standards and styles change, so what was an acceptable figure in 1990 is often not an acceptable figure now.

     

    I don’t buy this argument either.  My gaming interests have always been primarily WWII in 20mm, and my purchases have (until recent times) centred upon the German Army.  My German figure collection consists mostly of FAA’s product, bought when FAA were still based in Britain.  So, and I’m guessing here, they were probably obtained in the mid to late 1980s.  They stand comparison with almost any figures available today.  I also have a collection of Volkssturm which I think are Drews Militia.  They too are every bit as good as anything I could buy now.  And then I see notifications of new releases from Company X, or Company Y (apologies in advance if there are such companies!) where I struggle to see any similarity to a human being.  Arms are too long and bent in the wrong place.  Poses are sculpted which no human could possibly adopt.  Body proportions are all wrong.  Yes, there are cracking figures produced now, AB, Adler, Blitz/Battlefield (before they ceased – but ably continued in style by Simon’s Soldiers), but there’s also some dross being turned out masquerading as 20mm WWII.

    Trust science, not the scientists.

    #149531
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    Apologies, I may be misunderstanding something here, but Shahbahraz is agreeing with you, isn’t he?  He is saying in the past there were some figures worth buying which stand the test of time (like your FAA) but there were some that were not; and that these figures that do are more often than not on the pricier side?

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #149532
    Shahbahraz
    Participant

    One of the real arguments for paying more for better figures is that they have longevity… standards and styles change, so what was an acceptable figure in 1990 is often not an acceptable figure now.

    I don’t buy this argument either. My gaming interests have always been primarily WWII in 20mm, and my purchases have (until recent times) centred upon the German Army. My German figure collection consists mostly of FAA’s product, bought when FAA were still based in Britain. So, and I’m guessing here, they were probably obtained in the mid to late 1980s. They stand comparison with almost any figures available today. I also have a collection of Volkssturm which I think are Drews Militia. They too are every bit as good as anything I could buy now. And then I see notifications of new releases from Company X, or Company Y (apologies in advance if there are such companies!) where I struggle to see any similarity to a human being. Arms are too long and bent in the wrong place. Poses are sculpted which no human could possibly adopt. Body proportions are all wrong. Yes, there are cracking figures produced now, AB, Adler, Blitz/Battlefield (before they ceased – but ably continued in style by Simon’s Soldiers), but there’s also some dross being turned out masquerading as 20mm WWII.

     

    You’re making my argument for me. Buying good quality figures at the time has ensured they have longevity. You could have bought cheap rubbish figures and not wanted to put them on the table now. You surely wouldn’t argue that overall the quality of figure sculpts has on the whole, improved hugely over the years?

    --An occasional wargames blog: http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.co.uk/ --

    #149533
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    Well call me an old stick in the mud, but there’s no bloody way I’m buying and painting replacements for the figures I’ve collected over 50 years. I shall just have to carry on being ashamed to put them on the table.

     

    Not.

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #149534
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    I’ve got some Peter Laing West African Frontier Force (Askaris) figures I could let you have if it would help?

    #149535
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Well call me an old stick in the mud,

    #149537
    Shahbahraz
    Participant

    Well call me an old stick in the mud, but there’s no bloody way I’m buying and painting replacements for the figures I’ve collected over 50 years. I shall just have to carry on being ashamed to put them on the table. Not.

    My understanding of the forum rules is that it would be unacceptable for me to call you ‘an old stick in the mud’, but perfectly acceptable for me not to disagree with you, when you call yourself that? 

    And I have no shame, so I wouldn’t be ashamed, but I might well have figure envy if my opponent has far superior quality figures…  sort of like having strip 15mm Minifgs when your opponent has the contemporary ‘Jacobite Miniatures’ 15mm Napoleonic Wurttemburgers.*

    It’s for you to decide whether you want to upgrade those minis. I used to have an army of Mikes Model’s Ottomans, and I lovingly painted them, fancy horse barding and all, but I wish the later and much improved Essex Ottomans had been available.

    *Incidentally, still available from https://elitewargamesandmodels.com/product-category/15mm/15mm-napoleonic/wurttemberg/

    --An occasional wargames blog: http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.co.uk/ --

    #149538
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    I’ve got some Peter Laing West African Frontier Force (Askaris) figures I could let you have if it would help?

     

    That’s a very kind offer, Laing were crap in the 70s 🙂

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #149540
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    That’s a very kind offer, Laing were crap in the 70s 🙂

    But they were very cheap (especially with club discount) so you could field far more, easy and quick to paint and from normal gaming distance looked fine.

    They look even better these days, now my eyesight only seems to work at a distance of either one to two feet or at over a hundred yards! 🙂

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

    #149544
    Derek H
    Participant

    It’s for you to decide whether you want to upgrade those minis.

    “Update” the best part of a thousand  figures that do their job perfectly well?    You have to be joking.  I have better things to do with my hobby time.  And they’re old friends that bring back many happy memories.

    I never understood why people even considered buying Peter Laing.  There was a time when they did periods that weren’t available elsewhere.  But you could only ever tell what they were meant  to be by reading the label on the packaging.

    #149554
    General Slade
    Participant

    I never understood why people even considered buying Peter Laing. There was a time when they did periods that weren’t available elsewhere. But you could only ever tell what they were meant to be by reading the label on the packaging.

    I bought them because I wanted to try 15mm figures and the adverts in Military Modelling cunningly didn’t include any pictures.  Boy was that a waste of pocket money.

     

    #149564
    Shahbahraz
    Participant

    Yeah, but we all know you’re a cussed old bugger. See you at VL4

    --An occasional wargames blog: http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.co.uk/ --

    #149939
    MC_Delicatessen
    Participant

    Ok, so I appreciate I may be the exception here, but I am someone who for 20 years has been cash rich but time poor. (At one stage I went to get a mortgage, and the bank manager looked at my income and my savings and asked me; horrified.. what I spent it all on.. to which my answer was ‘whatever I feel like’) – and many of the gamers out there have a high disposable income. To me, the cost of figures, etc. is incidental, the limiting factor for my hobby is the time to paint it (I like to paint my own figures), and time and opponents to play. So I can get 20% off manufacturer x in a sale, and pay less than whatever for a figure. But… I am going to be investing a LOT of my time painting those. By the time I get them on the table, the figure cost is only a trivial part of the overall cost in my time/money equation. So generally I will happily pay the premium to get the figures whose style I like. So for ancients in 15mm… does Xyston do it? No? Corvus Belli? Battle Honours? – and will I need to chop bits off and work with greenstuff? Similarly with all my WW2 or 28mm AWI, Ancients and Napoleonics. The overall cost of the figures disappears over use. I do agree to some extent, about hobby producers, I don’t think overall they hugely depress pricing, simply because most have only limited ranges, so if I want to do washer women of the war of Jenkins Ear, ok. If I want to do AWI forces in 28mm, then I will pick a producer with a) a comprehensive range, b) great sculpts c) reliabity d) longevity. a) and b) are interchangeable to some extent, provided the figure ranges are broadly compatible. The one cost that grinds my gears is postage. I know it’s outwith the control of most producers, but it means I have dismissed US producers. I am not prepared to make an order for £100 and pay an extra £40 for shipping and then £25 for customs/import processing.

    I came back to post pretty much this. I usually ignore everything said on Madaxeman’s podcasts*… but I didn’t really identify with the cost-consciousness-per-figure riff. The one thing about cost that gets my goat is crazy shipping pricing. I understand it’s a pain to pack these minis, but it’s a bit odd to pay a large shipping cost that is maybe only 20% actual postage cost – when the items come in unlabelled bags, unprotected, reused box etc. It doesn’t quite fit.

    On the actual cost-per-figure, for me, it’s right down at the list of priorities – well after this long list. Every time I look to order, I juggle all these things. And the manufacturers that tick most of these are much easier for me to buy from… most of these are pretty obvious through my 15mm ancient/medieval lens, but I’ll cite some for the craic…

    • general look – do I like the look of them (Khurasan good, Irregular, sorry)
    • does the website show me enough of the figure/s that I can actually tell what they look like (lots of good sites, Museum Z should show the figs, Xyston thumbs are too small, amazing what a good lightbox could do for some of the sites, Museum old blanks are frustrating)
    • pose variation – are there pose variations (Xyston good, Essex not so)
    • does the website show me the pose variations so I can actually tell if there are any (changing a hat vs an actual pose) (FIB good, Essex vague, Legio could be clearer considering how well most are presented)
    • am I inspired – show me what they look like painted (Xyston fail but so many searchable, Legio good but patchy, FIB fail)
    • if there are add-on shields/weapons – show me them because I want to know if they are pins or actual sculpts (this is a new bugbear of mine, lots of pins recently from Donnington and Legio)
    • unit mix – troops types – do they fit the list/s (where are the swords FIB, Xyston and Legio good, of course Essex has so much)
    • range – can I buy enough unit types to justify the postage (Baueda camps great but where are the shield maidens)
    • compatibility – figure sizing (obvs Xyston debate)
    • compatibility – shield size (obvs Museum hoplites, still the weirdest sculpts I have seen, love them though)
    • compatibility – weapon size (those chubby FIB spears frighten me)
    • pack size – can I buy without wasting loads (oh FIB what are you thinking)

    So, all of that is so much more important to me than whether a 15mm inf is 30p in the Museum sale or 80p after duty and shipping from the US (though that postage hurts). In the end I also like to share orders around and support all the manufacturers!

    *The Madaxeman pod is great. I’m addicted. Sadly.

    #149946
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    Apologies, I am again missing something in this thread.  If you are price insensitive, what does the postage matter? Because you can’t recoup postage costs if you sell them on (although I don’t think anyone has mentioned resale value as a reason so far)?

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #149950
    MartinR
    Participant

    Apologies, I am again missing something in this thread. If you are price insensitive, what does the postage matter? Because you can’t recoup postage costs if you sell them on (although I don’t think anyone has mentioned resale value as a reason so far)?

    I try to avoid selling anything if I can avoid it, which is why I’m still using figures and vehicles I first painted back in the 1970s. I like a bargain when it comes to wargaming, always have done and I don’t particularly care if figures are “good” or not. Once they are painted and based they all look the same anyway.

    I spend far more on re enactment stuff than I do on wargaming. I think it is the DIY ethos of wargaming which appeals, and DIY means cheap.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #149952
    Shahbahraz
    Participant

    Postage costs are just that, extraneous costs. I don’t mind if a manufacturer makes an extra 5p or whatever, they employed a good sculptor and cast good figures, they get my money. Paying a stack of cash to DHL, UPS or a customs agency, not so much. Resale value irrelevant.  I don’t sell figures, with the exception of two times when I was planning to move between continents.

    --An occasional wargames blog: http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.co.uk/ --

    #149953
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    Postage costs are just that, extraneous costs. I don’t mind if a manufacturer makes an extra 5p or whatever, they employed a good sculptor and cast good figures, they get my money.

    I don’t really get this, since it is the same money either way; and more, presumably that means you are now paying the manufacturer of the good figures nothing at all (who in the small hobby market will notice the absence) in order to spite UPS (who won’t notice your action in any way).

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #149959
    Shahbahraz
    Participant

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    Because UPS et al are big companies, who won’t notice my actions on an individual scale, but will notice when people stop using them in the aggregate. The same goes for HMRC, the Post Office and all the other shareholders lining up to take a slice.

    --An occasional wargames blog: http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.co.uk/ --

    #149963
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    It’s fascinating where ideas run once you release them into the wild.

    First – apologies to Madaxeman et al. I hope this has driven some listeners podcastwards, and it was not meant in any way as a personal (or impersonal) attack. I have an urge to join in discussions that interest me and my initial post was intended as a (slightly) more measured response than my urge to hurl toast at Radio 4’s Today programme each morning.

    Second – My main point was simply disbelief at the idea I should be feeling an obligation, to actively want to pay more for figures to somehow support a mythic Grail search for the perfect figure.

    Once in a new car showroom the salesman played his main introductory ‘what am I going to bother showing this guy’ question -‘How much do you want to pay?’ His face fell somewhat when I said I didn’t want to pay anything, I wanted him to give me the top of the range model for nothing. We worked towards an acceptable trade off between our positions from there.

    I know I have to pay for things but I didn’t want to pay more for a vehicle than I had to, nor did I feel any moral obligation to inculcate that feeling. I feel much the same way about toy soldiers. I will pay for the figures I want, I don’t want to haggle someone down below a reasonable price, but I see no reason to develop a desire to pay more to enable people to pursue some mythic ideal of perfection. Trust me, ideas of what a good figure looks like change all the time and not in a linear progression towards some perfectible ideal.

    So thanks everyone, it’s been emotional.

    I’m not in any way trying to cut off, corral or otherwise truncate or direct the discussion if there is more to say. I just wanted to let you know I’m still reading with interest and  to keep my toast on the plate.

    #149971
    Keith Barker
    Participant

    Postage costs are just that, extraneous costs. I don’t mind if a manufacturer makes an extra 5p or whatever, they employed a good sculptor and cast good figures, they get my money.

    I don’t really get this, since it is the same money either way; and more, presumably that means you are now paying the manufacturer of the good figures nothing at all (who in the small hobby market will notice the absence) in order to spite UPS (who won’t notice your action in any way).

    I get it. I cannot explain why. I am not really price sensitive, it takes me such a long time to paint a 15mm figure, and I don’t have enough hobby time! But I really do object to paying too much for postage or for customs fees.

    #149985
    MC_Delicatessen
    Participant

    Ah – I forgot possibly the biggest factor in a lot of my purchases…

    • Are there LBMS transfers?!

    I swear my collection is basically a load of shield stickers with a bit of lead, paint and flock somewhere close by!

    #149995
    Piyan Glupak
    Participant

    …[snip]… – My main point was simply disbelief at the idea I should be feeling an obligation, to actively want to pay more for figures to somehow support a mythic Grail search for the perfect figure. ….[snip]…

    What is the perfect figure?  Is it going to be the same figure for everybody wargaming that period?  One of the reasons that I don’t really bother with 25/28mm figures any more is that many of the newer ones don’t fit on the bases that I want to use.  Because of the push for heroic and animated poses, it is actually difficult to base infantry 4 wide on a 60mm wide base.  Even when I can cram them on the base, you can’t get two opposing bases in front-to-front contact with each other.

    Some might tell me to use bigger bases, but bigger bases mean a larger playing area.  The family of rules that I am working on want a 2′ deep board for 40mm wide bases, 3′ for 60mm wide bases and about 4′ for 80mm wide bases.  The rules are intended to be playable at home, so 3′ by 2′ or 4′ 6″ by 3′ is a lot better for me than 6′ by 4 ‘.

    With some periods I suggest that you actually want most of the figures to be in the same pose.  Do you want your Napoleonic Wars line infantry all doing their own thing?  The sergeants might have had something to say about that in real life.

    #150005
    craig cartmell
    Participant

    Gentlemen, ladies and Mike 😉

    A fascinating discussion to be sure, but I think we need to, as my old grandma used to put it – calm the feck down a bit.

    This debate about overpricing figures is a bit like the endless ‘edition wars’, where some gamers lament that they have been priced out of their favourite game by companies who keep changing their rules and the figures required to play them.

    If a company wishes to charge what the market will bear, that is not an unethical business practice. This is a hobby, not a pharmaceutical necessity.

    Consider this instead. We are now in an absolute Golden Age with such a range of games and figures as honestly beggars all understanding.

    When I started if you want to play ACW you had to modify Airfix Napoleonics. If you wanted to play fantasy pretty much the only manufacturer was Minifigs micro-blobs. Every lead figure had moulding flash and I have over thirty, worn, specialist files and dental tools to prove it

    Now we have an embarrassment of riches in every scale and at every price point imaginable. They are having to invent gaming genres just to keep selling well-produced, full colour rulesets, and new figures.

    You can pick up decent figures for pennies on Ebay and similar sites, and even 3D print your own at cost.

    I think it is time we counted our blessings rather than harping on about some manufacturer’s business practices. There’s enough stress going around in the world at the moment, let’s keep our hobby stress-free.

    Cheers,
    Craig

    The Ministry of Gentlemanly Warfare

    #150006
    Mike
    Keymaster

    There’s enough stress going around in the world at the moment, let’s keep our hobby stress-free.

    Hear Hear!

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