Dragon Rampant – the new HOTT?

[Sane Max]

A friend of mine is putting together Dinosaur and Cavemen armies for this. I approve strongly. However, I think DR has the Potential to become the New Hordes of the Things, with all the potential for Good and Evil that involves. Dinosaurs? Good. Action Men V Barbie? Wade’s Whimsies V Playmobil? Evil. EEEEEEEEEEEEvil.

 

Am I the only person that was always repelled by the trend toward ‘Whimsy’ in HOTT games? Or am I a curmudgeonly Goit?

 

 

 

[Rhoderic]

When I first discovered HOTT and became briefly interested in collecting armies for it, I wanted an entirely serious feel to the project. Tolkienesque “free peoples” versus hordes of darkness. My interest fizzled out as I became more aware that other HOTT players were just treating it as a game of sillybuggers. I respect all projects that people put effort into, but comedy fantasy armies just aren’t my cup of tea, I guess.

[Kitfox]

I don’t mind a bit of silliness so longer as it’s not over the top, my fantasy collection is mostly pretty sensible but I’m happy to face off against a comic force so long as it’s clear what all the figures are and the game’s fun. Dragon Rampant’s a solid set of rules which plays well no matter what the figures are.

I’m certainly not bitter that my dwarf brewers are routinely beaten by a force of mushroom men

Death to all fanatics!

[Mike]

Kitfox wrote:

not bitter that my dwarf brewers

Is that a bad pun?

[Sane Max]

Puns and HOTT on the same thread would probably violate some sort of cosmic Tweeness Law and tip us all over the edge into the Pit of Despair, inhabited by LOLCats and Bronies.

 

But glad to see it’s not just me.

 

[Darkest Star Games]

I have 2 different views here.  I have used HOTT for a fantasy campaign that was very much a serious thing, and it went swimmingly, we all enjoyed it.  But I have also created and played some whimsical armies, but that agreement to do so was all laid out ahead of time, and was among friends. (One of the guys had all these little sheet that he had gotten from somewhere.  His lurkers were shaven sheep with blind folds, they were hilarious.  Another had dwarves that were Dallas Cowboys themed, cheerleaders and all).

Now, if I had arrived at a convention with an army intent on a HOTT tourney my reception of silly armies would be solely based on whether that was the intent of the tournament itself, and allowed.

I have not played Dragon Rampant.  What are the key differences between it and HOTT?

"I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

I liked HoTT for both whimsy and “serious” fantasy play. I still want to use Khurasan minis female cannibals (who look suspiciously like radical feminist Andrea Dworkin) to build a radfem army and then put together an opposed “Anti-SWERF ‘n TERF Alliance” army made up of street walkers, gender-benders, and trans people. Mercenary elements would be born again Christians (for the radfems) and Mens Rights Activists (for thenAlliance). The only problem is most gamers wouldn’t get it and most people who get it wouldn’t game (well, my niece and her partner would like it).

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Sane Max]

Darkest Star Games wrote:

I have not played Dragon Rampant. What are the key differences between it and HOTT?

 

Totally different in pretty much every way. It’s a skirmish Game with unit activation to Move, shoot – some units are easier to activate than others, and you decide who activates first – if you fail, the game Turns Over immediately to your opponent*

 

you get units, which are pretty much standard – Elite Cav , Heavy  Cav, light cav, Heavy foot, light foot, fierce foot, archers, crossbows, Greater Warbeast, Lesser Warbeast etc etc- and then you match what you have to the trooptype you want to. In that regard it’s similar. In every other respect it’s not the same at all. There are bolt-on special rules that are not cheesey to add flavour – so My Dragon is a Greater Warbeast, with ‘Fly’ and ‘Flame Attack’. My Verminlord on the other hand a Lesser Warbeast with ‘Venomous’.

*I really rate it, and if you like Bloodbowl you will ‘get’ the unit activation a lot better than people who are used to having control over their army.

 

It allowed me to scrape the fungus (I kid you not) off my Old-school skaven for the first time in 15 years, with the bonus that things that are crap in Warhammer, or too expensive in points for what they could do, can be used as something good. My Ratogres are Elite Foot, and having a great time. I have owned my Giant Rats since 1980-something, and my first game of Dragon Rampant was the first time they had actually killed something. I rate it very highly. You can add what you like – and I have succumbed to some Whimsy – I have a Teutonic Knights army, and have added a Dragon – Bestia Dei – who Hochmeister Von Eimer-kopf believes he has converted to Christianity, and doesn’t ask why Novice Monks keep disappearing – or you can play seriously of course.

 

 

[Kitfox]

Mike wrote:

Kitfox wrote:

not bitter that my dwarf brewers

Is that a bad pun?

Certainly not! No matter how stout they are they always end up retreating to Laager and being destroyed leaving only the porter to escape!

Death to all fanatics!

[Rhoderic]

Sane Max wrote:

I have a Teutonic Knights army, and have added a Dragon – Bestia Dei – who Hochmeister Von Eimer-kopf believes he has converted to Christianity, and doesn’t ask why Novice Monks keep disappearing

I must grudgingly admit I love this notion.

[Sane Max]

which reminds me, I must source some 28mm Mastiffs and handlers

 

 

[Kitfox]

Sane Max wrote:

which reminds me, I must source some 28mm Mastiffs and handlers

You might want to look at the new war hounds for Oathmark, they might do the trick?

Death to all fanatics!

[Sane Max]

thanks, will have a peak

 

[Kitfox]

You’ll find them in the Oathmark Extras section, North Star Military Figures.

Death to all fanatics!

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

That warhound master for Oathmark is great!

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Tony Hughes]

I tried to name as many of my 6mm HotT armies as I could after B-movie titles or references.

Nomad Arabs were (obviously) Sons of the Desert, the cavemen & mammoths were the Tribe that time forgot & so forth.

It didn’t really work well as the joke got weaker the harder I tried to make it work.

 

[kyoteblue]

That is one way to look at it.

[Tim Snoddy]

I don’t usually feel the need to criticise games, we are all looking for different things but I feel compelled to say Dragon Rampant is one of the worst games I have ever played.  Superficially it looks a lot like HOTT but it lacks all the tactical finesse.  See that unit of goblins over there with the big friendly ogre ready to bash anyone who comes near them?  Well that is actually a huge tactical mistake, as a friendly unit being near is just as bad as an enemy if you have to retreat.  Rolled a 2 on 2D6 for morale, a quarter of your army has just been lost.  It also falls between two stools not quite being a skirmish game and not quite being a mass battle game.  Only fantasy rules I have played that are worse are Of Armies and Hordes.

[Kitfox]

I’ve had a lot of fun with Dragon Rampant. Sure it’s not a very in depth tactical experience but it’s easy to pull an army together and The simple rules suit new players and suit narrative play quite nicely.  I’ve mostly played 4 player games and haven’t had any real problems with armies turning tail and running away en masse.

Weirdly I’d put it as one of my favourite systems but I can see why it doesn’t suit everyone.

Death to all fanatics!

[Rhoderic]

Tim Snoddy wrote:

It also falls between two stools not quite being a skirmish game and not quite being a mass battle game.

I’ve lately been seing the term “small unit game” used to denote this type of game. Given the rise of popularity of small unit games in recent years, I’d say they’re sitting on a stool of their own by now.

BTW, as it happens I have my own issues with Dragon Rampant, but nothing major and not the same ones that have been brought up in this thread already.

[Tim Snoddy]

Good point.  I have bought Oathmark but not had a chance to play before lockdown.  It is advertised as a mass battle game but is definitely a mass skirmish game.  Units only activate one at a time, combats are one unit versus one unit, multiple unit combats are not allowed.  I really don’t know if I will like it or not until I play it, quite hopeful after reading the rules.  One thing you can definitely say for it is it has a clear vision of what it wants to be.  My point about Dragon Rampant is that to me it seemed a poor mix of rules some suited to mass battle and some to a skirmish game which did not blend well.

[Derek H]

My band of Minions, and their mortal enemies the Lego Men, all disagree with the  original poster in this thread 🙂  But I’d ask any potential  opponent if they were happy to play against them and alternatives are available.

And it can be a fun way to get younger children involved in wargaming.

[Kitfox]

Great army, my mushrooms would be happy to face off against them!

Death to all fanatics!

[Sane Max]

Kitfox wrote:

You’ll find them in the Oathmark Extras section, North Star Military Figures.

Nice, not Mastiffs but they will make a good pack of war/hunting dogs to help ‘fantasise’  my Early Germans – ordered 🙂

[venusboys3]

I always enjoyed some amount of humor in wargames. It’s what attracted me to Warhammer and kept my interest until it all got so self-serious.
Not that I always want OTT levels of absurdity in every game… a bit can go quite a ways.
Dragon Rampant is a fun, ‘lite’, game… something I’d play when I didn’t feel like a bigger game or the detail of a devoted skirmish/story game.

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