25/08/2015 at 21:41 #29888
Well, finally stopped rubber-necking TMP and did some work! Got through the chapter on the 1801-1807 hussars in Leonov, Popov, & Kibovsky. Nothing too earth shattering as I had picked up most of the new info from the illustrations posted on Reenactor. It’s all compiled at:26/08/2015 at 09:00 #29902General SladeParticipant
Thanks for the continued updates. They are much appreciated.26/08/2015 at 16:18 #2995027/08/2015 at 09:49 #30003
And to think here I was with my Old Ingermanland grenadiers with pale yellow facings instead of straw. They are even now marching solemnly into the furnace to erase the shame.
“INGERMANLAND MY OLD INGERMANLAND!”
31/08/2015 at 07:06 #30201
- This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Lagartija Mike.
Just finished up with Hussars! Some tasty niceties, but nothing mind blowing. Given my OCD, I’ve been trying to get perfect OCR’s out of Omnipage, and it’s just not up to the footnotes and tiny fonts, etc. So this time I only processed the main blocks of text, made some routine corrections, and dropped it into Google translate as fast as I could. Pretty much got through the whole chapter in a day and a half.
Next I’ll probably tackle the Horse Jaegers just because the section is so small. Or maybe I will take votes!
Okay, not pandering for compliments, although they are much appreciated. Just want to share what I’ve been doing. I think in all the time I have had my stuff on the web site, I’ve only got one inquiry about it. And that was from a non-hobbyist who was doing genealogical research and wondered why the Moscow Infantry showed up twice in my Borodino OB. Oops!
LM, there’s a reason straw is a better translation, but you are a smart boy so you probably know it already.
I see Editor Mike still can’t spell Tatar. It’s T-A-T-A-R, Mike.31/08/2015 at 23:10 #30272
Well, that was quick. Knocked off the Horse Jaegers during lunch. Suggestions? – probably the Lancers, or maybe time start on the Leib-garde which Viskovatov doesn’t cover real carefully.02/09/2015 at 05:44 #30342
Okay, some more. Picked up a bug and stayed home from work. So that allowed me to march through the later Dragoons and Lancers. There is some new, and satisfying because it explains some things that didn’t make sense, info on the lancer pennants. Not much else, although I did catch a long standing mistake in the dragoon table when I proofed it again…
So, Cuirassiers, early cavalry, or guard?02/09/2015 at 14:44 #30357
One question about hussars and lances. You note them with some units, not with others as far as pennant color and such. Do we know definitively if all hussar units were armed with lances and when?
And I’d vote for cuirassiers, then guard, then early war. I’m a big early war fan but it is nice to have a resource complete for a whole chunk.
Thanks again for publishing this.
The Bandit02/09/2015 at 19:18 #30364General SladeParticipant
Another vote for cuirassiers. No real reason. I just like cuirassiers.02/09/2015 at 19:57 #30374
Yes before the 1812 canpaign – all but the Olviopol, Belorussia, (in Danube army) and Lubny (in Crimea) who got them later. This info is in an article translation somewhere on Mark Conrad’s site and I don’t like to duplicate his efforts.
Leonov, Popov, & Kibovsky say “later” was after they joined the 3d hussar division, i.e. 1813.
29/09/2015 at 20:31 #31801
- This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by Jonathan Gingerich.
Well that’s a relief. Got the late line and guard cavalry completed from information from Leonov, Popov, and Kibovsky. Some interesting bits and confirmation about a lot of nagging questions – the lancer pennants, the guard light cavalry epaulets, cords, and pompons, and so forth. And some new puzzles. How many chevrons did the trumpeters have on their sleeves? I knew I was getting done when the number of notes started rising again. At first, the information from LPK was simplifying things and I was able to remove some of my speculative notes. But then I got to the nitty-gritty details and they started rising again. When I started this project, I was pretty must just grabbing anything and everything that Viskovatov didn’t cover. But now I have to impose my own judgement on things. Does a new “fact” go in the text? go in the notes? or maybe make it into a comment in the html?-) For example, LPK contend that the L-g. Lancers never got copper red buttons because they never showed up on the expense report. But then they scheme them with L-g. star badges on the pouches, which would be copper red. You are very unlikely to ever confirm this with other evidence, and what there is is rather thin. So notes or not? (I attached it to a similar note…;-)
Well, almost complete. Turns out the L-g. saddlecloths used guard lace – the red tape with yellow “checks” (mascles). Actually there is one Viskovatov print of this, but I tend to concentrate on the later period and wasn’t conscious of this. The lace didn’t go to plain yellow until 1811, so I have some challenging graphics work if I want to meet current standards.
Speaking of which, I finally took a hard look at Viskovatov’s Horse Jaeger plate, and discovered that, indeed, he was wearing his pouch belt underneath the separate bandolier for the carbine, and then I realized only the Dragoons had lost the metal bits off the bandolier/pouch belts, not the Cuirassiers. Okay, that’s how I have my fun. Beats arguing about Berezina with blockheads.
JG29/09/2015 at 22:57 #31806GreystreakParticipant
Your updates are always much appreciated, Jonathan.
Bryce Allen30/09/2015 at 19:41 #31861
Okay, that’s how I have my fun.
Well bless ya for it. You know well that I appreciate your updates to this project but I’ll post it here again. Thank you.
The Bandit10/11/2015 at 06:18 #34139
Well it’s been a while. Almost through the early cavalry. Not much new on the Cuirassiers or Dragoons. But a bit on the Lancers. The most interesting of which is that in 1802 there was an order to differentiate each of the 10 squadrons of the Polish and the Lithuania-Tatar with their own pattern of pennant. Furthermore, the two regiments were distinguished by the color of the lance shaft – black wood color for the Polish and red wood color for the Lithuania-Tatar. Now the word for shaft “drevko” and the word for wood “derevo” are quite similar. So I’m thinking that perhaps the red shafts of the Don Cossack lances were more properly red wood shafts? Certainly a red stained finish would seem more economical than all that paint… Unfortunately LPK does not cover the irregulars, so it’s an open question…24/11/2015 at 05:28 #34827
Okay, the L-g. the line, early, late – Leonov, Popov, & Kibrovsky’s tome on Alexander I’s cavalry is done!
(well we will review at some point in the future…).
Added the L-g cavalier saddle cloth patterns, fixed the early L-g. Hussars, added the early L-g. Cossack, even put the obscure Leib-Uralsk Cossack Century…
Well, enjoy! (and let me know where I goofed;-)
JG24/11/2015 at 05:31 #3482829/11/2015 at 00:14 #35085
Started looking at the foot volume. Some significant, but probably unwelcome, news about the early Jaegers. Seems the unique “top hat” was only delivered to half the regiments and then was replaced the next year by the shako when the musketeers received them.31/12/2015 at 13:19 #36123
I am very grateful for all your hard work, Jonathan, especially as I intend to do 3rd Infantry Division c.1812 in 2016.
Am I correct in reading that Russian squadrons were not half the size of western ones as previously thought, i.e. a Hussar regiment would have ten squadrons each at c.140?
http://jannersjaunt.blogspot.dk05/01/2016 at 18:45 #36263
Hi Janner – happy new year and all that to everyone – just got back from the East Coast visiting family (and updating the Pioneers 😉 )
The important thing to remember about the big cavalry regiments (and I think this holds for the Austrians as well) is that they served in two battalions, so always just 5 squads before 1811. Then one of the “center squads” became the depot squad and it was down to 4. I believe the senior squad was always on the right, and the next most senior on the left, but they may have been mixed in the middle depending upon who was commanding what. Anyway, two 4 squad battalions.
In LPK there are some orders about the way the 7 squad post-1812 regiments were handled. I didn’t get it fully worked out, but it seems the regiments were being kept at 3 full active squads, by rotating them all back to Poland for refit and recruitment.
Let me check out the 3d division flags for you before you get too committed…05/01/2016 at 21:42 #36278
Many thanks, I went for GMB for the Reval Regiment.
http://jannersjaunt.blogspot.dk05/01/2016 at 23:23 #36279
Well, the 3d Division flags are fairly straightforward, so if you’ve chosen GMB I’ll stop chattering.
Do be aware that the 4th infantry regiment was Selenginsk. For some reason it had ended up brigaded with the 3d and at some point in 1812 it officially replaced Koporye.06/01/2016 at 02:35 #36281
Jonathan, I believe you’re mistaken. 4th infantry regiment was Alkash Babnik.06/01/2016 at 07:23 #3628306/01/2016 at 12:56 #36297Guy FarrishParticipant
Jonathan, I believe you’re mistaken. 4th infantry regiment was Alkash Babnik.
Maybe (I’m sure a lot of them were) but is it relevant?06/01/2016 at 15:16 #36298
I believe Basil Vasiliev’s seminal work, Babniks on the Hoof, indicates their regimental banners were roundly condemned by the Metropolitans of Tomsk and Vladimir-Suzdal.06/01/2016 at 16:43 #36302Guy FarrishParticipant
I believe Basil Vasiliev’s seminal work, Babniks on the Hoof, indicates their regimental banners were roundly condemned by the Metropolitans of Tomsk and Vladimir-Suzdal.
нe знаю мой друг но я думаю вы шутите06/01/2016 at 18:27 #36303
Looks that way. I remember seeing confirmation of an actual order to swap in an unexpected place (maybe Lieven??) and neglected to note it. Not really sure of the timing or circumstances, but it does seem to have occurred before Borodino.
I read Pynchon’s Inherent Vice over the break. Sort of like getting a flu shot.
06/01/2016 at 23:44 #36327
- This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by Jonathan Gingerich.
Jonathan, I believe you’re mistaken. 4th infantry regiment was Alkash Babnik.
I’ve got the 3rd Infantry Division at Loubino (Valoutino-Gora) as being:
3rd Inf Division: Konovnitsyn
Where did you see the Selenginsk being exchanged with the Alkesh Babnik?
The Bandit07/01/2016 at 13:28 #36344
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