Epic Battles sized Punic Wars – LONGER video

[Andrew Beasley]

Just stumbled across the news that Warlord are announcing the next ‘Epic scale’ range at Salute.

https://frontlinegaming.org/2024/04/11/big-news-from-warlord-games/ has more info.

I wonder how many different troop types will be made in plastic as the current ranges (esp the ACW) keep this to the minimum???

[Jim Webster]

Oh whoopie, ancient wargaming so much needs another scale.
Over the years I’ve bought Punic wars stuff in 25mm (A bit but never followed through) 15mm which is the main scale and I’ve got heaps of them 🙂 ) and 2mm where I did a few just to see what they looked like and could do a DBA battle with them

Run past me again why I’d go to an orphan scale like 12.5mm where the only figures I could use would be from one company and the only stuff I could get would be the stuff that company thought to include in the range.

I suppose you might be able to mix some of them in as units with the smaller 15mm (not 18mm which is almost becoming another scale) or the taller 10mm

I’m going to have to start carrying sample figures in my pocket when I visit the bring and buy at a wargames show just to check that the cheap second hand figures I’m looking at do actually match the scale I’m using

 

not ranting am I?  😉

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[Mike]

Jim Webster wrote:

I suppose you might be able to mix some of them in as units with the smaller 15mm (not 18mm which is almost becoming another scale) or the taller 10mm

 

Or with Kallistra.

[Jim Webster]

I forgot Kallistra. I wonder if Kallistra decides to expand their ranges to take advantage 🙂

As an aside Kallistra has put a price point in the market, £6 for 32 figures plus bases

 

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[Andrew Beasley]

Jim Webster wrote:

I’m going to have to start carrying sample figures in my pocket when I visit the bring and buy at a wargames show just to check that the cheap second hand figures I’m looking at do actually match the scale…

I did that when I was heavy into 15mm sci-fi and hunting for toys to use – got some very strange looks in some high-street shops 🙂

Jim Webster wrote:

not ranting am I?

No – I hoped they go 15mm rather than differentiate their range by size but I guess they will go small for customer lock in. I do wonder if it’s a bit of a personal project? (Not that it would bother me if it was)

Since this ‘scale’ was launched with the ACW figures I’ve wondered if other manufacturers would create figures to pad out the ranges Warlord offered – I’ve seen some 3D prints but nothing specifically cast from regular companies. Kalistra / Pendraken have not pushed advertising ‘compatible with’ – rather letting early reviews do the job.

Maybe others are concerned costs do not outweigh the risk of Warlord introducing the same in ‘official’ figures? Maybe the rules do not give other troops a look in so it’s a ‘counts as’ or ‘house rules’ only?

[Jim Webster]

I wonder whether Warlord are expecting to create their own captive market who don’t even connect with the rest of the hobby companies?

https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

[willz]

I wish Warlord would do 18th century figures in this scale 🤔.

[Jim Webster]

That would make a lot of sense because you could do your imagi-nations in the classic period and frankly you probably wouldn’t need a vast range

https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

[Mike]

Jim Webster wrote:

I wonder whether Warlord are expecting to create their own captive market who don’t even connect with the rest of the hobby companies?

I suspect so.

Andrew Beasley wrote:

I did that when I was heavy into 15mm sci-fi and hunting for toys to use – got some very strange looks in some high-street shops

Yeah I did that for terrain hunting, fish tank decorations and the like…

[Jim Webster]

I shall watch with interest 🙂

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[Andrew Beasley]

EDIT – longer video below with way more detail

Short video posted on YouTube:

Not being an ancients collector I cannot comment on accuracy but I like the look of these and could swap my blocks for these if I was playing the period 🙂

[Jim Webster]

At short viewing they look accurate enough, and as you say, it might be nice to swap your blocks for them. I suspect you’d have to buy a big box of stuff through if it’s like the other periods. Might make more sense to look at Kallistra or one of the more established 10mm firms?

https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

[Andrew Beasley]

Jim Webster wrote:

…I suspect you’d have to buy a big box of stuff through if it’s like the other periods. Might make more sense to look at Kallistra or one of the more established 10mm firms?

I assume some will make it onto the front of WI (and then eBay or forum trades) and possibly The Sprue Shop will stock them though looking a the Napoleonic ones (I was very lucky picking a couple of cheap / free sprues in trade) it was cheaper to buy a box if I wanted each ‘block’ to be replaced by a command strip and single normal pose strip.

I’ve not tried the ancients or dark ages rules yet so plenty of time to see how things are laid out on the sprues and what, if anything, takes my fancy other than the elephants and TBH they are not a ‘valid’ troop choice unless you ‘count as’ cavalry.

I honestly doubt I have room for any more than one set of figures to replace the blocks at the moment esp if I consider the scenery – need to get my energy around the ‘imagi-nations’ troops I have first so drooling looking at new toys is really a no-no.

I really wish that fantasy has a set of One Hour Rules but the main attraction is the mix of troop types and their abilities so pushing armies over the four basic types normally used (yes I want my cake and eat it) and if anything this is how some of these figures would get used (as per the old days).

[Jim Webster]

Have you looked at Hordes of the Things for the sort of scale you play at for Fantasy?

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[Andrew Beasley]

Jim Webster wrote:

Have you looked at Hordes of the Things for the sort of scale you play at for Fantasy?

Hated the ‘correct’ English and terminology though enjoyed watching a few games at the Recon show. Even bought the DBA intro / guide book but got turned off by the arguments over the dice used rather than the game flow! Could be my mind just not taking things in as easily as it should…

I did spend time at Partizan talking to the DBA players but they are in competitive rather than teaching mode. Shame as I think they are missing a trick here.

Boots on the Table Don has released a more detailed video:

They look very nice.

[Jim Webster]

They do look nice, and the comment about them being not epic but 15mm (13mm to 15mm) means they’ll perhaps fit nicely with Peter Pig and some of the more 15mm rather than 18mm ranges
The one thing I don’t like is the legionaries so closely packed. Legionaries were actually in a lot looser formation than Hoplites and Phalangites, they were swordsmen, not spearmen and needed more room.

Don’t worry about arguments with DBA/Hordes, that’s not your problem, you needn’t bicker with yourself 🙂

https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

[Jim Webster]

We wondered if it would happen

Hoplite Miniatures, https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61556710630021

are advertising “If you play warlords epic black powder and want to expand beyond waterloo we have a large range of Napoleonic’s sculpted to match warlord games epic scale perfectly. Nearly all nations are covered check the range out”

 

Aiming for scale exclusivity isn’t a long term strategy with printing common 🙂

 

https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

[Andrew Beasley]

expand beyond waterloo

Going by this catch line I think this makes it a good move as the Napoleonic range has always been targeted as ‘Waterloo’ rather than the whole period from my limited knowledge. I do not see ACW or ECW needing the large number of different looking units types but that may be my lack of knowledge bias TBH

The ‘Punic’ label gets over the DBA issue of hundreds of army lists with different looking figures and may kickstart other manufacturers to make compatible sized figures from other nations and their troops. This ‘nation’ mix vs troop mix never sat well with me – abstracting the troops to generic types and allowing impossible battles significantly weakens the ‘historic’ claim of DBA (but I will say I do have issues with this set).

15mm 3D printers should get an early lead here as hopefully it will be a resize (and strengthen weapons) compared to a restructure for lots of troop types. The question comes down to – will the embedded generation change or will there be enough of a new market to go beyond the core set?

Interestingly the close packed Romans does seem to be making noise – having used blocks and 2mm I’m quite used to the solid look but understand the disappointment some feel. This may be the ‘marmite attitude’ for this set!

If Warlord get more folk interested in the period (oh shiny syndrome) or introduce a new person to gaming (one box that’s easy to build/paint) then it’s a win 🙂

[Jim Webster]

I confess that one member of our club was interested but we pointed out to him that he could get more troops in ‘genuine’ 15mm, not get a rule set nobody else at the club uses, and use his figures for the rules our club does use.
For somebody doing it solo, or people just getting into the era, where you can get a box each and swap so one has all the Carthaginians and one all the Romans then it has some mileage.
I think it might reach people who currently don’t do ancients

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[Author]

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