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This topic contains 172 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by OldBen1 OldBen1 1 week, 6 days ago.

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  • #94179
    KevinE
    KevinE
    Participant

    I like the cover with the border and the revised text at the bottom.

    Kevin

     

    #94185
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    Should have posted this a while back, but I was out in the boondocks for a bit with no civilized communication access…

    My wife suggests for the rules that at the start of a turn EACH group rolls individually for initiative rather than each player/side, however Individual characters with 6 or more Vitality should count as their own group.  Now, she is not a gamer, but I talked her into playing a couple of test matches and for a whole game I couldn’t roll better than a 1 for initiative, but the baddies (3 groups of 3, total base Vitality of 9) were consistently rolling 4+, allowing the closest enemy group to activate before anyone else.  She thought each group counting as it’s own might force an enemy group farther away to activate before their closer brethren, thus perhaps giving the Heroes a bit more tactical flexibility on occasion.

    The next test we played using that rule worked very well, especially since I was down to 3 Vit at one point and was able to escape the closest mob as their buddies who were 16″ away had to go first.  Of course, as a beginner, my wife was cleaving her way through scores of enemy and almost untouched in each test…

    Now, this does upset the initiative balance a little, but also forces more tactical thought as to saving Vit points for defense after attacking one enemy group in case another is able to close after you have activated.  YMMV.

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #94186
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    Another suggestion:  falling damage.  We had both heroes and villains fail in attempts to jump between roofs, and decided that a figure could fall 2xProwes before taking damage, which we figured 1/2d6 per increment would suffice.  So P2 enemies can fall 4cm before taking damage (potentially dying from falling from a 1 story building roof.  Seemed cinematically correct!) while my P3 hero would be unscathed from the same situation.  However, falling from a 7cm tall building, my hero took a 2 VP ankle sprain…

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #94187
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Bit lost, sorry.
    ‘They take 1/2d6 per increment’

    Is that 0.5 d6?
    And what is an increment? A storey or a cm?
    And what do they take?

    #94188
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Now, this does upset the initiative balance a little, but also forces more tactical thought as to saving Vit points for defense after attacking one enemy group in case another is able to close after you have activated.

    If Erland goes first and spends all his Available Vitality in attacking a nearby group with the current rules, then the group that has yet to go can still attack and Erland has no Available Vitality to defend with.
    I am not seeing how this is different?
    Could be I am not thinking straight due to hunger…. 😐

    #94193
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    Bit lost, sorry. ‘They take 1/2d6 per increment’ Is that 0.5 d6? And what is an increment? A storey or a cm? And what do they take?

    No worries, just meant that for Erland, an increment would be 6cm (3 Prow X 2) because he is tougher and has better reflexes while an increment for a mook (2 Prow X 2) would be 4cm.  1/2d6 would one-half d6 (or 1d6 result divided by 2), so basically result of 1-2= 1 point of damage, 3-4= 2 points of damage and 5-6= 3 points of damage (catastrophic!).

    If Erland goes first and spends all his Available Vitality in attacking a nearby group with the current rules, then the group that has yet to go can still attack and Erland has no Available Vitality to defend with. I am not seeing how this is different? Could be I am not thinking straight due to hunger….

    Well, as written (in the demo you sent me) if there are 3 enemy groups and they roll higher than the heroes then ALL enemies go before the heroes, which can result in them mobbing up and overwhelming the heroes before they have a chance to really act.  As I understand it, you do not declare your actions at the start of a turn if you are the 2nd player, so in the above example the heroes would spend their AV (available vitality) as they are attacked, and then can use whatever is left to attack or do actions when it’s their go.  When enemies mob up the heores can potentially be left with no ability to do anything as they have spent all of their AV just defending.

    By having each group roll independent activation/initiative it breaks up the potential for an enemy mob up (which should be less flexible than a wiley hero) and each group could be forced to consider whether to spend all of their AV in case the next group in initiative can reach them, and by extension a group that can go first or last and not have to worry about an enemy closing can spend all of their AV without having to worry about being flanked.

    Makes sense in my head, but the transfer to language may be garbled…

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #94194
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    BTW, the summoning rules are ace!  We tried to fight through some cultist guards to stop a ritual and by the time we had hacked them all down and reached the circle it was too late, the demon appeared, and snuffed my guy out.  The lady took 2 Vit damage and bugged out, leaving the land to be savaged by the great evil.  And the Sorcerer only had to sacrifice 2 out of 4 acolytes to do it!

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #94196
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Yo.

    So the idea is that Vitality is key, the more Vitality a side has the more effective it is.
    Also think of it as a sort of crude points value.

    So Erland with V6, in a fair one to one fight should face off against three V2 Villains.
    However, given Erland has a greater Prowess he should be able to defeat an equal Vitality with only a minor wound (I did try this out 40 times in a row and the results evened out to be pretty much that).

    If you have 6 Villains vs Erland he should in a one to one fight get a right kicking.
    6 vs 1 is too much even for him.
    The starting Available Vitality of those 6 is so much greater than Erlands he will never win the initiative, he is outnumbered and out vitaled. (just made that word up?)

    Now, how this pans out depends on the set up.
    A Group of 6 Villains is too much for one starting hero to take on in HTH.
    They should pounce first and get the drop on him.

    Elands choices are hit and run, if you can manage to sneak up on the group and take one out then retreat / withdraw that could work.
    So use an AVP (Available Vitality Point) to move up and attack, use 1 or 2 to do the actual fighting, kill the target and as that body slips to the floor and before the rest of the Group can step into his place, Erland uses the rest of his AVP to move back out of range.
    Repeat this until the AVP of the Group is such that Erland can win the initiative.

    The better option would be to have two Groups of three Villains, now their AVP is still the same of course, but Erland if he times it right and plays his opponents properly should be able to take out one Group and thus even out the initiative to a level playing field.

    When enemies mob up the heores can potentially be left with no ability to do anything as they have spent all of their AV just defending.

    This is intentional, but bear in mind that a hero in defence is just as likely to kill a Villain as when attacking.
    There is no shame in standing your ground and letting them come to you, as you whittle them down and reduce the sides AVP you can turn the tide of the battle and take the fight to them.

    Don’t be afraid to have the hero retreat, they should be able to move further in a turn than a Villain, so plat cat and mouse, move the enemy into a crappy place and then use your speed, divide and conquer and all that.

    I totally get what you are saying btw, but if you want to change the way you play it please do, these are your Chronicles!

    #94197
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    And the Sorcerer only had to sacrifice 2 out of 4 acolytes to do it!

    Oooh nicely reminded, thanks.
    I came up with a rule that pure acolytes/sacrifices give a bonus to the pool.
    Must write that down.

    #94200
    kyoteblue
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Looks cool!

    #94206

    Alexander Wasberg
    Participant

    I sort of see the logic of both arguments, there is something to be said for both of them. I’m really looking forward to giving them a test-run now that I have some appropriate minis for doing so (thanks Mike ).

    #94216
    Angel Barracks
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    I think it would be a most noteworthy event if someone wrote some rules that no-on wanted to tweak in some way…  😀

    #94490
    OldBen1
    OldBen1
    Participant

    Rules are tough, especially since most of us have a lot of experience with many different games.  I like Burning Sands the way it is!  I think the suggestions work as well, but make things a little more complicated.  I’m excited to read the new rules!

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