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This topic contains 256 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by Angel Barracks Angel Barracks 2 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #94179
    KevinE
    KevinE
    Participant

    I like the cover with the border and the revised text at the bottom.

    Kevin

     

    #94185
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    Should have posted this a while back, but I was out in the boondocks for a bit with no civilized communication access…

    My wife suggests for the rules that at the start of a turn EACH group rolls individually for initiative rather than each player/side, however Individual characters with 6 or more Vitality should count as their own group.  Now, she is not a gamer, but I talked her into playing a couple of test matches and for a whole game I couldn’t roll better than a 1 for initiative, but the baddies (3 groups of 3, total base Vitality of 9) were consistently rolling 4+, allowing the closest enemy group to activate before anyone else.  She thought each group counting as it’s own might force an enemy group farther away to activate before their closer brethren, thus perhaps giving the Heroes a bit more tactical flexibility on occasion.

    The next test we played using that rule worked very well, especially since I was down to 3 Vit at one point and was able to escape the closest mob as their buddies who were 16″ away had to go first.  Of course, as a beginner, my wife was cleaving her way through scores of enemy and almost untouched in each test…

    Now, this does upset the initiative balance a little, but also forces more tactical thought as to saving Vit points for defense after attacking one enemy group in case another is able to close after you have activated.  YMMV.

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #94186
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    Another suggestion:  falling damage.  We had both heroes and villains fail in attempts to jump between roofs, and decided that a figure could fall 2xProwes before taking damage, which we figured 1/2d6 per increment would suffice.  So P2 enemies can fall 4cm before taking damage (potentially dying from falling from a 1 story building roof.  Seemed cinematically correct!) while my P3 hero would be unscathed from the same situation.  However, falling from a 7cm tall building, my hero took a 2 VP ankle sprain…

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #94187
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Bit lost, sorry.
    ‘They take 1/2d6 per increment’

    Is that 0.5 d6?
    And what is an increment? A storey or a cm?
    And what do they take?

    #94188
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Now, this does upset the initiative balance a little, but also forces more tactical thought as to saving Vit points for defense after attacking one enemy group in case another is able to close after you have activated.

    If Erland goes first and spends all his Available Vitality in attacking a nearby group with the current rules, then the group that has yet to go can still attack and Erland has no Available Vitality to defend with.
    I am not seeing how this is different?
    Could be I am not thinking straight due to hunger…. 😐

    #94193
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    Bit lost, sorry. ‘They take 1/2d6 per increment’ Is that 0.5 d6? And what is an increment? A storey or a cm? And what do they take?

    No worries, just meant that for Erland, an increment would be 6cm (3 Prow X 2) because he is tougher and has better reflexes while an increment for a mook (2 Prow X 2) would be 4cm.  1/2d6 would one-half d6 (or 1d6 result divided by 2), so basically result of 1-2= 1 point of damage, 3-4= 2 points of damage and 5-6= 3 points of damage (catastrophic!).

    If Erland goes first and spends all his Available Vitality in attacking a nearby group with the current rules, then the group that has yet to go can still attack and Erland has no Available Vitality to defend with. I am not seeing how this is different? Could be I am not thinking straight due to hunger….

    Well, as written (in the demo you sent me) if there are 3 enemy groups and they roll higher than the heroes then ALL enemies go before the heroes, which can result in them mobbing up and overwhelming the heroes before they have a chance to really act.  As I understand it, you do not declare your actions at the start of a turn if you are the 2nd player, so in the above example the heroes would spend their AV (available vitality) as they are attacked, and then can use whatever is left to attack or do actions when it’s their go.  When enemies mob up the heores can potentially be left with no ability to do anything as they have spent all of their AV just defending.

    By having each group roll independent activation/initiative it breaks up the potential for an enemy mob up (which should be less flexible than a wiley hero) and each group could be forced to consider whether to spend all of their AV in case the next group in initiative can reach them, and by extension a group that can go first or last and not have to worry about an enemy closing can spend all of their AV without having to worry about being flanked.

    Makes sense in my head, but the transfer to language may be garbled…

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #94194
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    BTW, the summoning rules are ace!  We tried to fight through some cultist guards to stop a ritual and by the time we had hacked them all down and reached the circle it was too late, the demon appeared, and snuffed my guy out.  The lady took 2 Vit damage and bugged out, leaving the land to be savaged by the great evil.  And the Sorcerer only had to sacrifice 2 out of 4 acolytes to do it!

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #94196
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Yo.

    So the idea is that Vitality is key, the more Vitality a side has the more effective it is.
    Also think of it as a sort of crude points value.

    So Erland with V6, in a fair one to one fight should face off against three V2 Villains.
    However, given Erland has a greater Prowess he should be able to defeat an equal Vitality with only a minor wound (I did try this out 40 times in a row and the results evened out to be pretty much that).

    If you have 6 Villains vs Erland he should in a one to one fight get a right kicking.
    6 vs 1 is too much even for him.
    The starting Available Vitality of those 6 is so much greater than Erlands he will never win the initiative, he is outnumbered and out vitaled. (just made that word up?)

    Now, how this pans out depends on the set up.
    A Group of 6 Villains is too much for one starting hero to take on in HTH.
    They should pounce first and get the drop on him.

    Elands choices are hit and run, if you can manage to sneak up on the group and take one out then retreat / withdraw that could work.
    So use an AVP (Available Vitality Point) to move up and attack, use 1 or 2 to do the actual fighting, kill the target and as that body slips to the floor and before the rest of the Group can step into his place, Erland uses the rest of his AVP to move back out of range.
    Repeat this until the AVP of the Group is such that Erland can win the initiative.

    The better option would be to have two Groups of three Villains, now their AVP is still the same of course, but Erland if he times it right and plays his opponents properly should be able to take out one Group and thus even out the initiative to a level playing field.

    When enemies mob up the heores can potentially be left with no ability to do anything as they have spent all of their AV just defending.

    This is intentional, but bear in mind that a hero in defence is just as likely to kill a Villain as when attacking.
    There is no shame in standing your ground and letting them come to you, as you whittle them down and reduce the sides AVP you can turn the tide of the battle and take the fight to them.

    Don’t be afraid to have the hero retreat, they should be able to move further in a turn than a Villain, so plat cat and mouse, move the enemy into a crappy place and then use your speed, divide and conquer and all that.

    I totally get what you are saying btw, but if you want to change the way you play it please do, these are your Chronicles!

    #94197
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    And the Sorcerer only had to sacrifice 2 out of 4 acolytes to do it!

    Oooh nicely reminded, thanks.
    I came up with a rule that pure acolytes/sacrifices give a bonus to the pool.
    Must write that down.

    #94200
    kyoteblue
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Looks cool!

    #94206

    Alexander Wasberg
    Participant

    I sort of see the logic of both arguments, there is something to be said for both of them. I’m really looking forward to giving them a test-run now that I have some appropriate minis for doing so (thanks Mike ).

    #94216
    Angel Barracks
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    I think it would be a most noteworthy event if someone wrote some rules that no-on wanted to tweak in some way…  😀

    #94490
    OldBen1
    OldBen1
    Participant

    Rules are tough, especially since most of us have a lot of experience with many different games.  I like Burning Sands the way it is!  I think the suggestions work as well, but make things a little more complicated.  I’m excited to read the new rules!

    #95606
    Angel Barracks
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    I have been tinkering with the rules and have also amended the falling rules.
    As it was there was a 5 in 6 chance that a normal person would be killed by falling from a bedroom window, whilst of course people do die from such a fall, it is not that common and these odds seemed a bit high.

    So now a normal civilian will probably survive* a fall from a bedroom window, but can not survive a fall from a house rooftop.
    The problem is that heroes are able to survive falls that a real person could not.
    With 6 Vitality, Erland could in theory survive a six storey fall if he passed the Prowess test as this would reduce the damage to 5.
    I can’t imagine any real person falling six storeys and not being toast, but then this is fantasy, the rules are guidelines and falling would probably be quite a rare occurrence?

    Anywho, just checking grammar and stuff and may even have the rules up for sale in a couple of weeks.

    #95611
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    That’s great news, I am very happy they will be out soon!

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #95669

    Thomaston
    Participant

    Do you realize that you have everything for a complete boxed game and more?

    Life's too long.

    #95717
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    Yup, he really does.  BUT, getting a boxed game to market is a pretty big and costly venture, and our chosen scale does not draw quite the limelight of the larger scales that powerhouses like CMON push.

    Having said that, I think instead of going all shiny and over the top on a printed box like the big boys, one could use plain white or brown boxes with a nice big sticky label on it and it’d be great.  (ACP games did just this, and it looked great as well as being economical to produce)

    Also usable for expansion scenario packs with terrain and figures and some paper…

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #95719
    Angel Barracks
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    It is not the just the box, but getting glossy nicely bound books is a massive cost too..

     

     

    #95728
    Private Snafu
    Private Snafu
    Participant

    Are you going to have a printed version?

    LuLu has nice quality. I have purchased at least 3 print on demand from them.  There is some licensing and distribution subtleties i’m not fully informed on.  My homeboy Joe just got his latest creation Sons of Mars finished and distributed by Northstar so he’s really up to date and informed on this currently.  I can put you in touch if you need any advise.

    ___________________
    http://moveshootassault.blogspot.com
    https://sites.google.com/site/miniaturemachinations

    #95730
    Angel Barracks
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    Not at this stage thanks dude, Wargame Vault will be taking a huge chunk in commission of the sales for the PDFs, if I ever did go printed I would be inclined to print at home and then just post them.
    There is not a lot of pages so it would be cheap enough to print at home/work/some copy shop, probably cheaper than Lulu and especially so once you take postage and what not into consideration.

    #95736
    Private Snafu
    Private Snafu
    Participant

    Sounds good.  I’m planning on getting at least a PDF from you though my preference is printed.  Ganesha has a lot of their stuff print on demand.  I’ve purchased recently Paleo Diet Fireside Tales (less than $20) (24 pages) and Favstvs Fvrivs ($14.85) with shipping (36 pages).  Print on Demand is great because you don’t have to post overseas (I’m talking about US customers) and you get media mail prices from USPS which makes shipping only a few dollars.  If rules are short, no problem, as long as they are worthy I’d still be willing to pay a creator $20.

    Do remember to focus on how much you are going to make on each sale as opposed to what a distribution partner gets.  Distribution is powerful and getting picked up by Northstar was a huge win for a new game designer like Joe.

    Cheers!

    ___________________
    http://moveshootassault.blogspot.com
    https://sites.google.com/site/miniaturemachinations

    #95751
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Do remember to focus on how much you are going to make on each sale as opposed to what a distribution partner gets.

    That is the problem. I want a fiver from each sale. Selling direct I would need functionality my site does not have plus I would have to become VAT registered.

    Going through the vault to get £5.00 I need to charge about £7.50. Which is a lot extra..

    #95769
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    It is not the just the box, but getting glossy nicely bound books is a massive cost too..

    I’m not so sure this is too much of a big deal.  If your rules are 30 pages or so it’d be (in my opinion) enough to have them printed with a nice thick card cover, regular color interior and stapled spine.

    Going through the vault to get £5.00 I need to charge about £7.50. Which is a lot extra

    That price would not put me off at all, especially if it came with printable cards for the character and game aids like paper versions of the nifty box you showed.  I am not a cheapskate, but rules over $20 make me squint a little, but those under $10 are an easy buy for me.  “A new game with the potential to be something really cool, AND for less than the price of a cheeseburger combo meal?  That’s a sale!”

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #95770
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    The player aids will be free from my site. It is easy to amend them and upload them that way. Plus when new figures come out it will be a doddle to update my site with the the player aids at the same time as doing the figures.

    And people may be more inclined to buy the rules knowing that the extras are free?

    I did try putting the aids and cards in the pdf rules but they take up a lot of space and it would be a pain to redo the rules each time a new  figure comes out.

    So rules pay from WGV. Game aids and stuff free from CA.

    #95774

    Alexander Wasberg
    Participant

    I don’t think that 7.50£ is bad by any definition, like DSG says, it’s less than an lunch 🙂

    Including basic game aids in the book is usually a good idea, maybe have the blank cards and some QRS in the book, with all things likely to change/ be expanded (errata/rules clarifications, cards etc.) exclusive to the CA website?

    #95776
    cmnash
    cmnash
    Participant

    Including basic game aids in the book is usually a good idea, maybe have the blank cards and some QRS in the book, with all things likely to change/ be expanded (errata/rules clarifications, cards etc.) exclusive to the CA website?

    IMNSHO including blanks and a qrs with the basic rules is a must …

    Putting cards for your own models on the site is a good idea though!  Have you talked to anyone about getting an mdf cutout to sit on the cards?(or slide the cards into it?) I’m sure someone like Warbases or Charlie Foxtrot Models would do it, whether they or you, or even both, actually sell them

    .

    #95779
    Angel Barracks
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    Righto, blank stuff in the rules it is…

    😀

    Have you talked to anyone about getting an mdf cutout to sit on the cards?(

    I have made a resin one ready to go.
    (comes unpainted though)

    #95784
    cmnash
    cmnash
    Participant

    Righto, blank stuff in the rules it is… 😀

    Have you talked to anyone about getting an mdf cutout to sit on the cards?(

    I have made a resin one ready to go. (comes unpainted though)

    Very nice! Looks a damned sight better than an mdf one would!

    .

    #95787
    Private Snafu
    Private Snafu
    Participant

    Thanks for all the replies.  I am curious to see how its going to be offered.  I do hope there is a print version in the end.

    ___________________
    http://moveshootassault.blogspot.com
    https://sites.google.com/site/miniaturemachinations

    #95888
    OldBen1
    OldBen1
    Participant

    Probably best to start small.  If things pick up then the sky is the limit!

    #95937
    Angel Barracks
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    I have submitted the game to Wargame Vault.
    Just waiting on them to check it and say it is ok!

    #95943
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    I have submitted the game to Wargame Vault. Just waiting on them to check it and say it is ok!

     

    Woop woop!  With 2 games under your belt now you are officially a games designer!  (though you may want to couch that in more intellectual wording when you tack that onto your resume!  )

    Here’s to hoping it becomes a roaring success!  Will it also be going up on RPGNow and DriveThruRPG?  (I know they are all now owned by the same people, but sometimes their content varies)

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #95962
    Angel Barracks
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    woot, the rules are available to buy.
    Will do some fancy pants news announcements in the morning, but if you can’t wait that long then head to my site and follow the clues!

    #95963

    Neil Egerton
    Participant

    Excellent, ordered and downloaded

    #95966
    OldBen1
    OldBen1
    Participant

    Congrats!  It was fun to be a part of some of the playtesting.

    #95968

    Alexander Wasberg
    Participant

    Congratulations!

    Now I just hope we’ll see some more chronicles popping up 😉

    #95974
    Stroezie
    Stroezie
    Participant

    Congrats!

    Insta-buy for me.

    Nice to see a printer friendly version included too. We have a no digital media policy during family holidays so it’s much apreciated

    Cheers,

    Stroezie.

    If you like 6mm scifi check out http://planetares6.blogspot.be/?m=0

    #96093
    Angel Barracks
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    Thanks dude, please do leave a review on WGV when you get the chance.

    😀

    So, I have started actually writing down things for “Burning Sands, The Chroniclers Companion”

    There will be advanced combat rules, more abilities, religions and associated bonuses, more detail around campaigns and an expanded bestiary.

    What else would you like to see?

    #96112
    Darkest Star Games
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    I’d like to see armor make a difference, maybe as an advanced rule.  Perhaps light armor may add +1 to your defense roll, and heavy adds +2 (but maybe slows you?).  Perhaps some armor are more effective against certain weapons?

    Advantageous and disadvantageous ground? (fighting from higher up, or knocked prone)

    The fluff will be cool, I look forwards to that!

    How about chariots?  More mounted combat?  (I guess if 2 men on horseback are fighting each other then their bonus cancels?  But what of charges with a lance, as happened in several stories?)

    Aerial movement?  (like riding a Giant Desert Hawk, or perhaps winged demons and harpies)

    Boats and ship to ship combat?  (Or is this to remain just desert based?  New supplement perhaps?)

    Now this might be a far cry: massed combat?  (like, whole armies.  I can see this being done quite easily with this system)

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #96119
    OldBen1
    OldBen1
    Participant

    More monsters!

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