Forgive me, a slight rant

[JozisTinMan]

I have not been very active here because the web filter at work, where I usually look at gaming stuff during lunch, blocks TWW, but not a certain other forum.

So, while browsing this other forum, I notice where a guy makes a post ” hey, look at my battle report, my friends and I did Stamford Bridge with SAGA.” It is a nice looking table, looks like fun was had by all.

Meanwhile the guy is getting bashed because “calling it Stamford bridge is ridiculous and sacrilege” because they had only 100+ figures on the table.

I chime in with “hey bathtubing a battle goes back to Featherstone, and by the way everything we do is a vague reflection of the reality. And that is ok. You can glean some small historical insights, but being a good Napoleon’s Battles player would not make you a good Napoeonic General in 1809.”

Got some replies that basically “you’re playing pretend soldiers wrong.” Personally, I don’t play all styles of gaming, but by god I would never have the hubris to tell someone they are gaming wrong. Plus I have had too many friends in the guard who have traumatic brain injury from Iraq to believe we are simulating warfare at anything more than a superficial level.

I apologize for venting my spleen like this. I shall now take my toys and move them firmly over here to TWW, where the people are friendly and it’s always a good time for a gin tea on the veranda.

http://jozistinman.blogspot.com/

[Mike]

Thanks for posting.
I think the forum software TWW uses is on many work blacklists, and as such quite a few people at work can’t access TWW.
TMP for example does not have ‘recognised*’ forum software so escapes the block list.
Or so I am told by an IT person…

Anywho, please share your games and I will get my below image at the ready!

😀

*by that I mean it is a bespoke bit of programming rather than a more mainstream piece of kit.

[paintpig]

Welcome Jozis, your not alone in your observation….. not by a long shot, I might pull up a settle and have a white russian with you if’n you dont mind. Perhaps we can talk playing with our toy soldiers.

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel
Slowly Over A Low Flame

[paintpig]

Mike wrote:

Thanks for posting. I think the forum software TWW uses is on many work blacklists, and as such quite a few people at work can’t access TWW. TMP for example does not have ‘recognised*’ forum software so escapes the block list. Or so I am told by an IT person… Anywho, please share your games

??P hasn’t been recognised as a wargame forum for ages Mike

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel
Slowly Over A Low Flame

[Mike]

Now now…
Let us be polite about other gaming sites.

🙂

[Not Connard Sage]

You’re not playing toy soldiers properly

 

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[JozisTinMan]

Thanks guys, now to go generate a battle report to keep kyote entertained, but probably not as good as Jack’s!

http://jozistinman.blogspot.com/

[paintpig]

Not Connard Sage wrote:

You’re not playing toy soldiers properly

I’ve got to meme up that photo NCS, we’re going to wear out the pipe smok’n baby

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel
Slowly Over A Low Flame

[Not Connard Sage]

30 seconds, Photoshop 😉

 

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[kyoteblue]

I’ll be down wind on the veranda having a morning smoke and coffee….I play toy solders any damn was I please..and You can play them the way you want to.

[paintpig]

Bastard

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel
Slowly Over A Low Flame

[Not Connard Sage]

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[curlerman]

I play toy soldiers. I have no shame or pretensions. I play toy soldiers . To be honest it would be hard to claim anything else.  A large proportion of my armies are made from hair curlers. Oh wait my latest armies are made of wood. In fact few of my collection could be called “model soldiers” So to maintain my own pride and often to just embarrass my wife when friends ask what hobbies I have, I say ” I play with toy soldiers!!”

 

 

Whats more to the point, I enjoy it too!

Winning is not important but losing i just can't handle..
blog http://flownlegions.blogspot.com.es
web http://www.angelfire.com/games4/bobsgames/hair_curlers.htm

[paintpig]

Any minute now Jozis is going to log on and have a WTF moment and go running back …….   Day ist crazee offa dair, crazee like der craquer biskit!

I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel
Slowly Over A Low Flame

[Otto Schmidt]

Dear Jozis

You have been given a vivid demonstration as to why War Games remains a “niche hobby” and always will. Too many people who want to become ever bigger fish in an ever shrinking pond.

One would think that being “geeks” as we all are, that the geeks would band together  and be nicer to each other, after all we have no shortage of people who deride and mock us, but alas it is not so. One would think that we could all enjoy the shared fantasy of war gaming with others of our own persuasion.

If it’s any consolation, and I know it is not, this is a human trait and not one particular to War gamers. In the hobby of Re-enactment there are people who believe, for example, that everything must be as accurate as possible.  You can read “Confederates in the Attic” to get the full picture, but briefly there are “campaigners” who believe that if X unit marched 20 miles in the rain to a specific battle, they must do so, and if it rains then so much the better, they still march and never wash their uniforms because the people in the field didn’t . They look down on “the Farbs” who stay in hotels, or hide ice-chests in ammunition boxes and chests, and have cots in their tents. In the hobby of yachting there are people who consider pariahs those who have an auxiliary engine I their boat just in case. In Model
Railroading there are people who are “prototoypers” who believe that everything about your railroad has to faithfully reproduce a real life prototype, from the engines, to the rolling stock, to the structures, names, and event tbat the whole thing has to be RUN like a real thing with schedules, time-tables, work orders filled out (in triplicate) to move this car from this siding to this train and vice versa, and you get demerits or something if you are late. They derisively slander the other side which they call “Freelandcers” which is to them just running the little train around the little track, and having fun.  Sorry, I have a job, I don’t need another.

I am told my other friends in stamp collecting and coin collecting, and quilting that it’s the same.

How this plays out is that when a model railroad club goes to a show which is supposed to showcase and advertise the club is that the “prototypers” refuse to have their module linked to one of the “Freelancers.”

I always thought war gamers should stick together. There aren’t that many of us. But apparently few else do.

Otto

 

[willz]

It’s a hobby, enjoy it.  When occasionally I receive criticism when doing demonstration games I am always polite but point out they do not have to do this interesting, invigorating and exciting hobby.  I do my hobby as I enjoy it, the models / toys / soldiers are built and painted by me, I try to get the correct uniforms and colours.  However I accept that as more information becomes available some details may need updating but I try my best and in the end its a hobby and I do it for fun.

As for war-game rules its all made up in the end, again it’s for fun.

I like the games and periods I like, though I also understand why people do different periods and games that I am not particularly interested in.  I can appreciate the time, effort and skill that goes into any form of gaming, modeling and painting.

 

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

Otto Schmidt wrote:

You have been given a vivid demonstration as to why War Games remains a “niche hobby” and always will. Too many people who want to become ever bigger fish in an ever shrinking pond.

As opposed to, say, junior league softball or high school football, where people are notoriously sane and levelheaded, particularly parents…

If it’s any consolation, and I know it is not, this is a human trait and not one particular to War gamers.

Exactly. Although I wonder if it isn’t a particularly MALE trait. I mean, most of us are men and getting to be old and crotchety men, at that. I wonder if this isn’t just another manifestation of the “Yoose kids get off my lawn!” part of the Y chromosome.

I mean, do women get this catty and stupid about their hobbies?

Then again, Martha Stewart…

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Lagartija Mike]

A few nights ago I was thinking of jump starting my long stalled pre-Islamic Turkish project with a big order of figures from Aventine and Footsore but kept on getting mentally c@ckblocked because I was having grand fits of anality because I couldn’t ABSOLUTELY justify some of the gear on the beautiful Footsore Royal Ghulams for the period. Eventually I just said f@ck it and went ahead but it demonstrates the subatomic pettiness ingrained in our hobby.

[Not Connard Sage]

Ah, uniform Nazis. That special wargame sub-type who think that ‘accuracy’ is the be all and end all.

 

My Front Rank WSS French are woefully generic. The infantry have only one of the many variants of buttons, pockets and cuffs that early 18th century French infantry regiments had. The cavalry are even worse, with their awful holster covers, telegraph pole swords and coats that may or may not cover a breastplate..

 

I really couldn’t give a toss, and if anyone is pedantically anal (unlikely, my wargaming acquaintances are like minded) to point this out they can expect what my mother would have called ‘short shrift’, and what I call ‘a round of ‘f***s’ 🙂

 

Don’t even get me started on my German units…

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Phil Dutré]

JozisTinMan wrote:

Got some replies that basically “you’re playing pretend soldiers wrong.”

So?

That’s the nature of discussion. Of course people don’t mean that literally. It’s a condensed statement that actually means “You play your way, I play my way, I think you way is less fun for me and therefore I don’t like your way.” There’s nothing wrong with that, and you have to take all that with a grain of salt.

And if someone really believes that – i.e. really thinks his way is the only possible way to correctly play wargaming – you basically ignore that person, right? Why would such a stupid opinion influence how you enjoy your wargaming?

I always consider it very strange why any wargamer would care how others outside his gaming group play, or wat others think about your style of play?  I couldn’t care less what others think that I might never meet in person, or won’t play a game with during my lifetime. The only thing that matters is whether you and your gaming buddies have an approach to wargaming that works for your little slice of the wargaming universe. Which of course does not prohibit you from sharing  ideas , good practices, hints and tips, with others outside your little gaming circle.

Move on and don’t waste time with the hobby gestapo …

[Otto Schmidt]

Dear List

Actually I have never personally run across a “uniform Nazi” or as I call them “Osprey Nazis.” I mean the stereotypical ones  who will horn in at a convention game and lecture you about it. We had one guy once who was a bit exasperated when the painting wasn’t accurate, but we cut him a lot of slack because  he WAS an excellent painter and craftsman, and he would sigh sometimes at how we were often off our Knoetel, but he never refused to play with non-historical troops, and put up in good sport manner.  The guy was good and we gave him his due.

 

What I think Jozis is talking bout it not “Osprey Nazis” but “realism Nazis” or “Rule Nazis” who think  that because you don’t use the rules they like it’s a personal insult on them.

Otto

[Mike]

Phil Dutré wrote:

That’s the nature of discussion.

It was less a discussion and more an attempt to belittle someone.

Phil Dutré wrote:

The only thing that matters is whether you and your gaming buddies have an approach to wargaming that works for your little slice of the wargaming universe

I concur.

[Bandit]

Ran a Napoleonic game of ESR for a local group, they were real excited and posted a bunch of photos on Facebook sharing them around. One of the responders on Facebook says [paraphrased]: “…the figures are nice but the finish level of the basing really just doesn’t cut it.”

Ahuh. Sorry for all the damage that browsing at the photos of other peoples’ figures has done you, next time I’ll let them know to send your samples ahead for your approval? :-p

Other peoples’ kids right?

Cheers,

The Bandit

[Angel Barracks]

@Bandit:

You should ask him where he purchased his copy of ESR from, as the official rules have no requirement for bases to have to cut it.
Maybe he can send his copy to you, and you will replace it with an official copy rather than the odd one he has?

[Bandit]

Angel Barracks wrote:

@Bandit:

You should ask him where he purchased his copy of ESR from, as the official rules have no requirement for bases to have to cut it.
Maybe he can send his copy to you, and you will replace it with an official copy rather than the odd one he has?

The responder on Facebook was just commenting on the look of the photos from the people who were playing ESR, he wasn’t commenting on the ruleset. His comment wasn’t as to if the basing scheme was any good but rather that he didn’t like the style of their bases, i.e. you don’t terrain them to my liking.

Cheers,

The Bandit

[Not Connard Sage]

Angel Barracks wrote:

@Bandit: You should ask him where he purchased his copy of ESR from, as the official rules have no requirement for bases to have to cut it. Maybe he can send his copy to you, and you will replace it with an official copy rather than the odd one he has?

 

Too subtle Mike. Too subtle. 😉

 

 

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Bandit]

Not Connard Sage wrote:

Too subtle Mike. Too subtle. 😉

/me feels silly.

Well played.

Cheers,

The Bandit

[Bandit]

I recall finding “the” newsgroup in the early/mid 90s and being overjoyed. One of the first responses I received on a post was that I was not a real wargamer because I used plastic figures. It’s been slowly downhill ever since.

Until TWW right? 😛

Cheers,

The Bandit

[DM]

For reasons that I won’t go into many of the sentiments above chime with me for so many reasons…..

[Norm S]

I saw a really funny cartoon on a wargame website.

Basically a person (wargamer perhaps) is tapping away on their computer furiously. A voice from the bedroom shouts “are you coming to bed?”, man at computer says “I can’t, this is important”. Voice from the bedroom says “what” ….. man at computer replies “Someone is WRONG on the internet”.

At times I have been that man, but these days, I really try to spend as much time as possible being creative at the keyboard, arguing less and avoiding places that deteriorate to bad language (I don’t mind using bad language, but it has it’s time and place), and so I like the way that Mike runs this place and I like the way that people who have gravitated here make a real effort to make it a good and positive place to visit.

I tend to stay away from game clubs because of the dynamics that exist within the group between some personalities, even though everyone has to rub along together regardless. I am not a natural mixer and my patience is too short for that (perhaps a weakness in my character trait), but I have been most fortunate that for nearly 30 years I have gamed weekly with a friend and we are pretty much like minded and we soldier on just fine.

As soon as you enter a forum you are back to that dynamics thing between posters and the fallout can lead to things such as …….. well like this thread really!  Life really is too short to worry about what is being said on another forum.

 

[Steve Johnson]

It’s only a game after all. I’m very lucky that my wargaming chums and I all share the same ethos when it comes to our games. We bathtub, we use ‘counts as’ units for new periods, we play ‘what if?’ scenarios/campaigns. All of this works for us and gives us immense pleasure. Others may hate the way we play, but frankly we don’t care. But to belittle someones attitude to gaming is beyond the pale IMHO.

[Patrice]

Lagartija Mike wrote:

I was having grand fits of anality because I couldn’t ABSOLUTELY justify some of the gear on the beautiful Footsore Royal Ghulams for the period.

Not Connard Sage wrote:

Ah, uniform Nazis. That special wargame sub-type who think that ‘accuracy’ is the be all and end all.

(Um, not sure Godwin is useful here, I prefer to avoid it). But IMHO it’s not exactly the same question. I can be very precise about what accuracy I want to reproduce in my OWN armies, because I am not happy to play with them if they don’t make me dream. I’m a bit more laxist about what other players bring on our game table, but I feel uneasy if it breaks my dreams about the (historical or fantasy) context. And I’m certainly not shocked to see pictures of people elsewhere playing with anything they like – and I can sometimes accept to run initiation games with unpainted ESCI or anything if needed, it really is another matter.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[John]

Not Connard Sage wrote:

Ah, uniform Nazis. That special wargame sub-type who think that ‘accuracy’ is the be all and end all.

Ha! You should have seen the indignation on the face of a gentleman running a Waterloo game when I mentioned that his wonderfully painted Britih foot Guards at were;

1. Probably wearing greatcoats
2. If they weren’t, the dye in the new coats had probably turned the white crossbelts and facings pink

 

To model the effect of Nuclear weapons on the wargaming table, apply jerry can of fuel to board, light match and stand well back.

[Rod Robertson]

Jozi:

The world is full of high-strung people who feel it is their right to tell others what to do and how to do it. When they get on my nerves I remember the two wise words of Armstrong and Miller’s Santa Claus skit ……. “Kill them!”

Cheers and keep your spirits up. Oh, and let’s see some more of those modern game reports which Kyoteblue is jonesing for!

Rod Robertson

[Alvin Molethrottler]

JozisTinMan wrote:

Meanwhile the guy is getting bashed because “calling it Stamford bridge is ridiculous and sacrilege” because they had only 100+ figures on the table.

I’m interested in this period, any chance you could contact the guy doing the bashing and ask him for his sources? You know, the primary ones with exact numbers counted and quoted by actual eye witnesses 

As for the rest, there is definitely a right way to play toy soldiers = in a casual, relaxed manner and in the company of good friends.

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

The way I avoid the Napoleonics Curse is this: I tell everyone I play with Napoleonic ImaginNations. That usually scares off the button counters.

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Otto Schmidt]

Dear Thaddeus

Good move!  But remember I think that will work ONLY until Osprey puts out a booklet on “Imagi-Nations” giving color plates and painting guides for various classic “Imagi-Nations” of Grant and Bath and perhaps some of the more recent ones. I know I have been bombarding them for years with plates and color guides for the Army of Princess Trixie of Saxe-Burlap and Schleswig Beerstein, but they have been strangely silent.

Once that happens though I’m sure the Osprey-Nazi’s will be all over us again.

 

Otto

 

[Sane Max]

Given that one of the ‘established texts’ of wargmaing is played with 12 elements a side – about 50 or 60 figures – I am quite surprised by the ‘there are not enough figures on the table’ attack on the OP. I HAVE had ‘that sherman is worong’ and ‘those Germans are too early’ but ‘not enough stuff’ is a new one on me.

All hobbies attract twats, it’s in the nature of hobbies to lure in some people who really missed the Human Interaction module at School. You just have to either learn to ignore it, like I do, or stick your face really really close to theirs and scream ‘F**K OFF YOU TRAGIC C**T!’ at full volume, which I also do, depending on mood.

[Sane Max]

oh, and another method is to simply launch into a calm, measured critique of their own dress sense.

‘Westphalians were not wearing Jodphurs at this stage of the conflict of course’
‘well no, but sane human beings aren’t wearing purple cord trousers that are too short, trainers they found in a skip and an anorak their mum bought them reduced at Poundland, are they? and the beard and glasses combo is also something of a sartorial failure. Perhaps before criticising how my fellows are dressed you should invest in a mirror?’

*edit* as you may guess that same module at school was not compulsory

[Not Connard Sage]

Sane Max wrote:

oh, and another method is to simply launch into a calm, measured critique of their own dress sense. ‘Westphalians were not wearing Jodphurs at this stage of the conflict of course’ ‘well no, but sane human beings aren’t wearing purple cord trousers that are too short, trainers they found in a skip and an anorak their mum bought them reduced at Poundland, are they? and the beard and glasses combo is also something of a sartorial failure. Perhaps before criticising how my fellows are dressed you should invest in a mirror?’ *edit* as you may guess that same module at school was not compulsory

 

That’s genius. I’m having that 🙂

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Author]

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