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  • #63795
    Abwehrschlacht
    Participant

    I agree with most here. Suggesting another range of figures is grand (I doubt very few of us don’t mix and match anyway), just slagging off a companies figures when they have just posted about them is not cool. Constructive criticism,  on the other hand…

    Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNUYwNznn-ZuNMoHoF3urwQ

    Blog: http://www.stormofsteelwargaming.com

    #63855
    Deuce
    Participant

    Staying on topic and about etiquette, and this time not based on feedback… Do we all agree that sharing of PM’s in public is uncool without permission from the other party?

    That’s implicit in the ‘Private’ part of Private Message I’d have thought.

    Doh! And there you go using language as if the words actually meant something!

    “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”

    “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

    “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – that’s all.”

    #64190
    Rob young
    Participant

    Strangely, currently got a case of someone taking previous private conversations onto my blog… so might soon be put in the position of saying ‘you have put these into the public domain so…’

    The person in question does use this forum, so…

    Rob Young

    #64205
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    Etiquette requires goodwill and goodwill is dependent on being positive in the face of perceived or real slights by another. So if another offends you either accidentally or intentionally be the bigger person and don’t react. Let the better side of our natures guide us. Wheaton’s rule is most important when someone else has breached it and you, the injured party, are miffed. So we need to suck it up and take the higher road when others are not cool. The harmony of the community is the responsibility of all of us. Thus positive vibes, empathy and thick skin are more important than working out a rigid dogma of “cool”. Cool isn’t a code of behaviour, it’s a state of mind and thus an internal driver rather than an externally imposed set of expectations. Let’s talk hobby and overlook the occasional indiscretions of fellow gamers who are having a bad day. If such gamers have too many bad days then it falls to Mike and Sam to sort them out. And, God forbid, if that doesn’t work, then the editors can unleash their fearsome, Amazon daughter and her “My Little Pony Commandos” to put a bit of stick about and sort things out right quick!

    Cheers and good vibes.

    Rod Robertson.

    #64254
    TwoGunBob
    Participant

    Probably funny is when I do a question about gaming say… A roleplaying game and I’m like I want to a game like encompassing The Sweeney or the Professionals and I know FATE is a darling for the RPG world currently but I don’t want to use FATE. The first answer is invariably:

    I don’t know what this Sweeney or Professionals is but I’d use FATE!

    sigh

    Private messages are private but, as said, always keep in mind they are only a ctrl C & ctrl V away from being shared with anyone and everyone. Suggestions for alternatives has never been problematic that I’ve seen. You could say a purchase of a Kings of War set is a loss of set being purchased from GW’s Warhammer line but that’s the beauty of competition, right?

    There’s a difference from a suggestion being, “I’d buy that line of miniatures… If I need a lead sinker for fishing!” and just suggesting that Killer B makes pulpy space stuff with GAFDOZ but so does Wargames Supply Dump with their Dick Garrison line, you know?

     

    #64255
    Ivan Sorensen
    Participant

    Probably funny is when I do a question about gaming say… A roleplaying game and I’m like I want to a game like encompassing The Sweeney or the Professionals and I know FATE is a darling for the RPG world currently but I don’t want to use FATE. The first answer is invariably:

    I don’t know what this Sweeney or Professionals is but I’d use FATE!

    I too used to post on rpg.net 😀

    Nordic Weasel Games
    https://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/5701/Nordic-Weasel-Games?src=browse5701

    #64291
    Another Wargamer
    Participant

    Forum Etiquette — please do not lie.   It is dishonest and may be hurtful to others.  I am a regular organizer and volunteer at various wargaming events and conventions in the United States.  There have been too many occasions where whiney individuals have gone on a forum to complain about their experiences at events/conventions without telling both sides of the story.  Intentionally not revealing information that may hinder their complaint case is deceptive.  Seeing this over and over again have made me decide to stop volunteering.  Yes, I probably need to grow thicker skin, but I’m tired of whiney, spoilt people.  Frustrations I do not need.

    Forum etiquette — please do not lie.

     

    #64376
    Deuce
    Participant

    I think there is a difference between “lying” and “not telling the whole story”, although it’s easily elided and I completely understand why they are both frustrating. Often circumstances which affect the situation aren’t mentioned not because one party is deliberately setting out to mislead, but because they don’t consider them relevant, or don’t consider them an excuse for the other party’s actions, or have forgotten them, or were never aware of them in the first place. Two people can watch the same thing happening and remember very different things, and people will always tend to remember things in their favour.

    For instance, there is a difference between:

    “I saw Mike at Salute and he ran over and punched my disabled eight-year-old daughter in the face!”
    and
    “I saw Mike at Salute and I asked him to sign something for me and he said no in a rude way”. *

    In the second case, omitting that what I was trying to get him to sign was my cleavage, and I had barged into a conversation he was already having to demand it. The statement is still true, more or less, it’s just missing some important context because I’ve forgotten it, was oblivious to it at the time or haven’t appreciated its significance in retrospect. And that he was rude about it is a value judgment that can’t really be proven wrong.

    It’s still misleading, but it’s not an outright lie in the same way as the first one. And I think while you can control the first (with defamation law if nothing else) the second is much harder, because people often don’t realise they’re doing it, and you can’t legislate against opinion.

    Then again, I suspect I have been trained into thinking in a fairly adversarial way when it comes to establishing who’s in the right in that sort of situation.

     

     

    *I should clarify that these are both entirely fictional examples.

    #147282
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Also on the subject of etiquette.

    It is ok to politely criticize a model/article etc. but please dont keep making the same comment over and over.
    It can, and has in this case driven off at least one member and made TWW a less welcoming place.

     

    #147299
    deephorse
    Participant

    Whilst you’re here Mike could you please enlighten me on the etiquette of Forum Signatures.  Twice now you have asked me to remove signatures on the grounds that they were ‘political’.  Whilst they were quotes of a politician, they did not advocate for any political point of view.  So I don’t personally see how they were ‘political’ in the sense that I understand that word to mean.  Do you view any quote of any politician throughout history as forbidden in a signature? Thanks.

    Less enthusiasm, please. This is Britain.

    #147300

    And guys like me who are getting older and have trouble keeping the rules of the languages he knows straight in his head.

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #147301
    Mike
    Keymaster

    There is no hard and fast rule alas.

    On both of those occasions they can be and have been viewed as bias toward a certain political viewpoint and suggest a personal political preference.
    People do not come here to learn what peoples thoughts on politics and current affairs are.

    Anything that may cause people to think a member is in favour of a certain political party or politician should be avoided, as should anything likely to detract from the gaming goodness.

    But quotes such as “Fear is a reaction. Courage is a decision.” would be fine as they don’t mock anyone or have any bearing on current affairs.

    If in doubt about signatures, or indeed any content, keep it gaming and civil.

    So in short, yes and no and maybe.
    Sorry.
    It depends.

    #147572
    Jemima Fawr
    Participant

    What is the etiquette for highlighting the piracy of entire figure ranges?

    I just want to make sure that I don’t get in trouble and get threads locked by pointing out that some people in this hobby make a living as parasites off the hard work of others.

    And just to be clear: Are you saying that the word of a pirate (one who has already been caught red-handed pirating no fewer than THREE other figure ranges) claiming his innocence holds equal weight to the legitimate copyright-holder who has already proved his rights in a European court (twice)?

    Just to be clear.

    My wargames blog: http://www.jemimafawr.co.uk/

    #147574
    Mike
    Keymaster

    EDIT:

    What is the etiquette for highlighting the piracy of entire figure ranges?

    I just want to make sure that I don’t get in trouble and get threads locked by pointing out that some people in this hobby make a living as parasites off the hard work of others.

    And just to be clear: Are you saying that the word of a pirate (one who has already been caught red-handed pirating no fewer than THREE other figure ranges) claiming his innocence holds equal weight to the legitimate copyright-holder who has already proved his rights in a European court (twice)?

    Just to be clear.

    1: That is fine if there is proof.
    2: They are an alleged pirate without proof.
    3: TWW is not a court of law and I have no intention to try to act as one.
    4: I understand your feelings around this, I have had things copied and been accused of pirating myself.
    5: I have been in direct contact with both parties and neither have shown me any proof, if you have proof such as court documentation or whatever please do share it.
    6: Please don’t assume I am the villain here for not accepting that someone has been acting illegally without having seen any evidence to corroborate it. I try quite hard to be impartial and fair and fact driven, I may not always succeed, but I do try.
    7: To try and maintain transparency you will note that the topic is still visible, with no comments deleted or altered by admins. Nothing is being hidden or covered up, nothing is being ignored either. It is not my place to get involved in legal disputes, but as noted I did make enquiries to try to better understand the situation.

    #147575
    ian pillay
    Participant

    If in doubt about signatures, or indeed any content, keep it gaming and civil.

    I think this is a fair statement.

    As many have said earlier, it’s ok to suggest other manufacturers if in the correct context. Not really cool to share ‘Private’ messages.

    TWW is a great place to share and discover all different aspects of our great hobby. Keep it civil, keep it gaming and we will all learn a little more.

    Tally-Ho!

    #147579
    Jemima Fawr
    Participant

    As I said, the person concerned has been caught red-handed three times before this one.  There’s no ‘alleged’ about it.  There is no need for the originator of the figures to demonstrate proof of ownership – they sculpted the things.  The burden of proof is upon the copier to prove that they have the rights to copy the original work.

    If you want to allow your website to act as a conduit for the promotion of pirated figures, that is entirely your choice.

    My wargames blog: http://www.jemimafawr.co.uk/

    #147586
    vexillia
    Participant

    Mike said:

     3: TWW is not a court of law and I have no intention to try to act as one.

    Admirable sentiment but …

    5: I have been in direct contact with both parties and neither have shown me any proof …

    Here you are acting as both investigator and final arbiter.  Isn’t that what courts & judges do?  See point 3 above.

    Martin Stephenson :: Work | Blog | Auctions

    #147587
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Here you are acting as both investigator and final arbiter.  Isn’t that what courts & judges do?  See point 3 above.

    No, courts make legally binding decisions on if the law has been broken and if so what the punishment will be.
    I am choosing if to lock a topic on my forum or not.

    #147588
    Mike
    Keymaster

    I would like to ask for everyone’s patience around this.
    I am in talks with a number of companies at the moment all to do with copyright infringement.
    As I said, I have no legal oomph and I am simply passing information on to concerned parties.
    I am not here to say who has been pirating from who, or who has been granted the right or not to do so, that is not my business.
    It is however the business of several people and I suspect they would like to investigate it and follow up on any information I can provide without distractions and hearsay.
    It is now involving a number of companies.

    So please, let us all leave those affected to take legal action if they feel they should.
    You can drop me a PM or e-mail if you wish to discuss offline, but I can not guarantee what I will reply with.
    I am trying to keep TWW a nice place and am working behind the scenes to try and help a number of concerned companies who may have had their IP infringed.

    I would like to think that most of you understand I am not a bad person and am acting in what I believe to be the best for all parties, but first and foremost my own business, TWW takes precedence.

    #147604
    Mike
    Keymaster

    So.

    If anyone sees any forum content they think inappropriate please let me know.
    I will take a look ASAP.
    If I can make an immediate call on the content I will do so.
    If I need to think about it, I will on some occasions lock the topic whilst I decide, on some occasions the topic will remain open, it just depends.

    If I think the content is appropriate / acceptable the topic will be open for people to discuss and or contribute to.
    If I think the content is not appropriate / acceptable then it will be locked.
    It will not be deleted as it may contain content that is later useful for reference.
    In some cases the topic may be archived, this is when a topic is still there but moved to a part of the forum that only I can see.

    #147605
    Norm S
    Participant

    Mike, I for one appreciate the way you run this site and your sentiment to keep it ‘a nice place’ is most welcome.

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