Home Forums General General Have you ever been so disappointed by a product change…

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  • #120346
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    …that you changed one of your techniques entirely?

    I used to use The Detailer inks for black, brown, yellow and blue washes (their red was horrible).  Worked great, flowed into all the little detail areas with no trouble and remained workable just long enough to be able to wipe off residual or from areas you didn’t need it.  Then they went and ‘improved” it.  Whatever the did caused the new version to dry almost instantly, and it seemed a lot darker and mixed with something that sealed it.  Ruined a couple of minis before I stopped using it and started using GW inks mixed with water and Future.  Then GW went and changed their inks, but that’s an entirely other complaint….

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #120348
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    Back in ye olden days when I used enamels Humbrol was the business – loads of colours, covered well (mostly), inexpensive.

    Then in the early 90s they went and altered the formula – less pigment so some were thin to the point of translucency, matts dried satiny, and they culled the range from hundreds to dozens.

    That’s when I finally decided that acrylics were the way forward.

     

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #120349
    Bandit
    Participant

    Yes, though more commonly where I’ve gotten stuck is a product simply goes out of production. Not a whole product line, but for instance, every miniature I painted for a couple decades used the same flesh tone, which then up and disappeared, so all of a sudden I need a different one. Or the darkest brown I used as a wash, up and gone from all the retail chains I had once purchased it from, etc…

    #120356
    jeffers
    Participant

    Same as The Sage. I still have a Revell Dambusting Lancaster my dad painted in 1976. All Humbrol paints brushed directly on black plastic with no need to undercoat. Couldn’t do that now.

    I blame the pro modellers and the move to airbrushes which need thinner pigment. Honestly, I’ve seen one airbrush black on a 1/72 ejector seat. Why? Just brush paint the ****ing thing! Even if it’s not true, I need a scapegoat and they will do.

    However, the move to acrylic was a positive one and I will not move back, so every cloud etc.

    More nonsense on my blog: http://battle77.blogspot.com/

    #120358
    Shahbahraz
    Participant

    For years I have been advocating that wargamers adopt a standard house acrylic paint for scenery pieces, use the same flock, etc.

    I had paint cans for litres of ‘ground base’, ‘drybrush highlight’ and ‘water-feature’. It worked perfectly for me. Now the paint company has withdrawn my base colour from their ‘new range’, and I haven’t yet been able to get it matched. Grrrrr.

    --An occasional wargames blog: http://aleadodyssey.blogspot.co.uk/ --

    #120360
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    However, the move to acrylic was a positive one and I will not move back, so every cloud etc.

      You know, I had totally forgotten about enamels.  I used Testors or Tamiya enamels on everything for years and years, then Testors did a major thinning change and I switched to acrylics.  Very oddly, this happened at the exact time I started painting miniatures for wargames, and not just D&D.  My first dozen D&D figures and my first 2 wargame figures were done with enamels, but none after that.

     

    Also forgot to mention that on vehicles I don’t use ink washes anymore because of how inks keep changing (for the worse, IMO) and now use artist oils for washes and filters.  Completely different approach.

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #120364
    Nathaniel Weber
    Participant

    It is for this reason I buy my favorite brushes, army painter’s Regiment brush and Character brush, several at a time. I worry they will go out of business or change the brushes.

    #120365
    deephorse
    Participant

    I’m not sure that I have a technique for anything, apart from basing and flocking.  I’m self taught, as I’m sure most of us are. I have a number of books on how to paint this, that and the other, but I’ve not done more than flick through them, and I certainly don’t try to copy their techniques.  Consequently if I even notice that a range of paints etc. has changed, I just adapt to what I currently have.  Real uniform and vehicle colours changed during wars so I’m not concerned if my Field Grey changes slightly from battalion to battalion.

    Trust science, not the scientists.

    #120411
    Thomaston
    Participant

    I’ve only been disappointed with Games Workshop minis changing aesthetic. Not a fan of their current trend but I’m not too sad about it since it got me away from buying their stuff, awareness of other mini manufacturers and got me sculpting.

    Tired is enough.

    #120415
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    Not paints, but….

    I was an early adopter and a huge fan of GW’s Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine. When they started making the vehicle style into castles on wheels (orks and squats), that made the whole lone jump the shark for me.

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #120416
    irishserb
    Participant

    “New and improved” is the most threatening phrase in human history.  Most of my bad experience revolve around hobby paint as mentioned above; Testors thinning their paints years years ago, Polly-S to Polly-Scale, Polly-Scale to nothing, Rustoleum buying Testors and eliminating most of the MM line.  Seemingly constant reformulating of primers and clear coats by Krylon. Etc.

    Curiously, I don’t find acrylics to be the God-send that everyone else does.  I still prefer the old enamels for many color in many instances, and use them whenever  I can.  I never found the smell to be a big deal, not in hobby volumes anyway.

    Packaging miniatures in packs by Foundry was another.  My orders in the years following that involved more packs with errors, than not.  My last order consisted of 11 packs with 7 errors, that ended my purchasing from them.  Then there was GW evolution from figs that I liked in the 1980s to styling them into the absurd.  Amarillo Design Bureaus re-scuplts of some of my favorite ships into models that have no place in my games.  Quality Castings dropping their original infantry and replacing them with figs that are so different in style and size, that they simply don’t look right next tot he old ones. (Yes, I know that the old ones were small, but I had 1600 of the old ones, when the change took place, and needed to finish units for every nation).

    Anyway, on and on.  When you are old like me, there is so much to cry about.

    #120518
    Stephen Madjanovich
    Participant

    I agree with Irishserb. I tried acrylics years ago and found them wanting so stick with enamels. This was the very first Poly S scale colours which I found didn’t cover worth beans (40 years ago).

    As to the various reformulations of Model Master and Humbrol I guess I just live with them. I literally have 40+ year old pots of Humbrol which have seen use from day one and which still work fine. Of the hundred to hundred and a half I started with again a couple years ago I have only had about a half dozen I had to toss. A lot less luck with even recent Model Master’s. I use lacquer thinner to keep my pots going. Some get thick and old so just needed to be thinned back into service until done.

    I may be shooting myself in the foot but here has been my solutions for discontinued colours. Ebay is your friend. I have also had luck seeing what is on the shelves at the local hobby shop. I have a supplier up here, Sunward Hobbies who carries both Humbrol and Model Master enamels and has or can get some older or odd colours. Finally I used the local hobby shop to order in a discontinued colour (MM UK Gulf War sand) but I had to buy a complete box of 6 pots. So now everything not specific will be that colour of sand (buildings, hills, etc.).

    #120572
    deephorse
    Participant

    I too have a huge number of Humbrol enamel tins, but I haven’t opened a single one since I discovered acrylics.  What converted me was the ease of dispensing just the right amount of paint from the dropper bottles, and the convenience of being able to wash brushes and palette under the tap after use.  In the past too many of my Humbrol tins were found to be solid when I went to use them after a lengthy break, and the spirit I used to clean my brushes just destroyed them over time.  I’ll never go back.

    Trust science, not the scientists.

    #120576
    Stephen Madjanovich
    Participant

    I do agree that any cleaner used with enamels does a job on brushes. Recently I replaced about a dozen brushes. Can’t find sable in the stores around here and (I think) Grumbacher is either no more or very limited. I ended up buying these white synthetic bristle brushes. Don’t know how well synthetic will hold up to lacquer thinner though.

    #120577
    Jemima Fawr
    Participant

    I find the opposite to be true: I use 99.9% Humbrol enamels and 0.01% acrylics for the odd colour I can’t find in enamels (such as a decent purple).  I find that acrylics kill my brushes almost immediately – drying very quickly on the brush and steadily clogging up the bristles.

    My wargames blog: http://www.jemimafawr.co.uk/

    #120578
    Stephen Madjanovich
    Participant

    Good point about acrylics drying on the brush. Since I don’t use them I have no experience.

    Model Master has (had?) a decent lighter purple 2013 Napoleonic Violet (I have a bottle I assume my son bought at one time). Pretty central in the range between red and blue, just medium light.

    As for the life spans of Model Master I have had mixed results. Of course that may be influenced by my son’s use of the same paints as to how he handles them. However, I have found Gunship Grey FS36118 does not last like I hope and can’t be brought back with lacquer thinner and lots of stirring. The pigment clots up and never totally dissolves for me.

    #120597
    deephorse
    Participant

    I’ve not had the problem of acrylics drying on the brush, but then I always dilute the paint with some water.  Sometimes a bit more water than paint, sometimes the opposite.  The only time I use it ‘neat’ is when dry brushing.

    Trust science, not the scientists.

    #120611
    jeffers
    Participant

    I’m with Deephorse. I’m still using brushes with a fine point that I would have lost years ago if I was still on enamels. The key is to regularly ’swiggle’ the brush in a pot of water and that way it stops the acrylic drying on the brush. Plus I have used Vallejo pots right down to the last drop; something I never managed with enamels which always dried out. We all have our ways, likes and dislikes but I will never go back (even if I do really miss the smell of Humbrol gloss).

    Stephen – I checked on eBay and found somebody selling Airfix paints in the original glass jars! Lord knows what state they are in, but they used to have a decent pigment.

    More nonsense on my blog: http://battle77.blogspot.com/

    #120612
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    Enamels, the awful reality.

     

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #120613
    Tony Hughes
    Participant

    For me the worst change was the deterioration of the quality of bristle used in W&N Series 7 brushes after the French firm bought them. The miniature brushes are still better for me than any others I have found but no longer last as well or retain their shape as well as they did 30 odd years ago when I started to use them. Longer haired brushes seem to be less affected.

     

    #120623
    jeffers
    Participant

    I notice the red has the usual hole punched in the solid crust to get the last gasp of life out of the tin (I’ll bet it’s only been used twice). I still have the screwdriver my dad gave me for that very purpose.

    More nonsense on my blog: http://battle77.blogspot.com/

    #120629
    deephorse
    Participant

    I notice the red has the usual hole punched in the solid crust to get the last gasp of life out of the tin (I’ll bet it’s only been used twice). I still have the screwdriver my dad gave me for that very purpose.

    I had a small manicure set cuticle pusher that I used to open the tins, and a bent seeker from a school dissection kit to stir the paint (once I had bashed that hole through the skin).

    Trust science, not the scientists.

    #120630

    I spent my adolescent years down in the basement, assembling plastic kits with tube, then Testors plastic-dissolving liquid, and painting them with Testors, then Pactra (“flat paints? Hurrah!”) enamels.

    Dis make me man I arm today.

    #120672
    MartinR
    Participant

    I miss the extensive range of Humbrol acrylics, but I don’t particularly mourn the demise of enamels. GWs  constant paint changes drive me nuts though.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #120705
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    I’ve gotten to the point where I now only use Vallejo, Mig, and Reaper paints.  Reaper has the best and most stable “game” colors, while Mig (Ammo of Mig, or whatever it is this week) has the best “military” colors.  The Reaper acrylics cover in one coat without being crazy thick, and also easily thin for using in an airbrush (without needing specific airbrush formula paints!) which makes any brush touch-ups super easy with no color shifts.

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

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