Heavy Jungle Support

[Abwehrschlacht]

Over at Britcon, I bought myself a couple of 8th Army 25-pdrs from Forged in Battle. I will be using them for Allied support in Malaya and there’s a few more pictures on my blog (along with a video report of the Other Partizan show that was held last Sunday), check it all out on my blog:

https://www.stormofsteelwargaming.com/2019/08/heavy-jungle-support.html

Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/stormofsteelwargaming

Blog: http://www.stormofsteelwargaming.com

[John D Salt]

Mr. Picky grits his teeth, and explains for the umpty-twenth time that it’s “25-pdr” or “25-pr”, but never, ever, “25-lber”. And a “25-lb” gun would be a gun that weighs 25 pounds, whereas a 25-pdr fires a shell that weighs 25 pounds.

All the best,

John.

[kyoteblue]

Great painting whatever they are called!!!

[Abwehrschlacht]

JDS, apologies, I’ll make sure it doesn’t happen again…

KB: Thanks buddy!

Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/stormofsteelwargaming

Blog: http://www.stormofsteelwargaming.com

[vtsaogames]

I am always confused about what pdr gun is equal to what mm gun. But then I’m easily confused, and easily amused.

It's never too late to have a happy childhood

[Abwehrschlacht]

A 25 pdr is 87.6mm calibre, so equivalent to the German 88.

Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/stormofsteelwargaming

Blog: http://www.stormofsteelwargaming.com

[John D Salt]

Abwehrschlacht wrote:

JDS, apologies, I’ll make sure it doesn’t happen again…

<Mode=General Melchettt> Good man, carry on. Baaaah. </mode>

vtsaogames wrote:

I am always confused about what pdr gun is equal to what mm gun. But then I’m easily confused, and easily amused.

There is no straighforward relationship between them, as there was supposed to have been back when the projectile was a simple roundshot.

FWIW here is a list of the commoner varieties of n-pounder in British service during the 20th century:

[pre]
1-pdr 37mm Vickers pom-pom of 2nd Boer War vintage, used notably to fire the first shots in air defence of London.
1.5-pdr 37mm Vickers pom-pom, little service, but notably used by HMS Vindictive at Zeebrugge, or 37mm Coventry Ordnance Works
(COW) gun, experimentally (and optimistically) mounted on aircraft.
2-pdr 40mm 2-pdr tank/anti-tank gun, or naval 40mm pom-pom, or 40mm Rolls 2-pdr in Motor Gunboats.
3-pdr 47mm tank gun in Vickers Medium tank, or 47mm WW1 naval high angle gun, or earlier 47mm Hotchkiss quick-firer that
soldiered on until 1940 in naval and coastal service and was later used as a saluting gun.
6-pdr 57mm tank/anti-tank gun (6-pdr 7 cwt), or 57mm Molins gun in Tsetse Mosquito, or (6-pdr 10cwt) “twin-six” WW2 naval
and coastal quick-firer, or 19th century 57mm Hotchkiss (6-pdr 8 cwt) anti-torpedo boat gun, and later saluting gun,
also adapted for use as sponson armament in HM Land Ships (tanks), in shortened form (6-pdr 6 cwt) in Mark IV Tank.
8-pdr 63mm? experimental mid-war tank/anti-tank gun, not proceeded with.
10-pdr 70mm BL mountain gun in service, largely with the Indian army, until 1918.
12-pdr 76mm Naval landing gun (12-pdr 10 cwt) used in WW1 in Africa and Gallipoli, the gun still used for RN field gun races
or 76mm BL (12-pdr 6 cwt) horse artillery gun still briefly used by a single battery in East Africa in WW1, or 76mm
(12-pdr 12 cwt) Armstrong-Whitworth naval gun of wide and long service.
13-pdr 76mm horse artillery gun of RHA in WW1, exemplified by the Néry Gun, and still used by the King’s Troop.
Also as 13-pdr 6 cwt in high angle mounts for motor launches and armed merchantmen.
15-pdr 76mm QFF Erhardt replaced in RHA service by 13-pdr, used by Yeomanry in Middle East early WW1; or 76mm BL (15-pdr 7 cwt)
of 2nd Boer War vintage, persisting into WW1 and arming the Territorial Force as the BLC (converted) 15-pdr until replaced
by 18-pdr.
17-pdr 76mm WW2 tank and anti-tank gun of screamingly good performance.
17/25-pdr 17-pdr on 25-pdr carriage, “Pheasant”.
18-pdr 84mm standard WW1 field gun, still in limited service early WW2 and adapted for use in armed merchantmen.
18/25-pdr Familiar name for 25-pdr barrel mounted in 18-pdr jacket on late-model 18-pdr carriage, as used by the BEF in 1940.
20-pdr 84mm post-war tank gun mounted in Centurion.
25-pdr 88mm gun-howitzer of wide renown, standard RHA and field artillery gun for WW2 and Korea.
32-pdr 94mm post-war tank and anti-tank gun developed from 3.7-in AA gun, mounted in Tortoise but not proceeded with.
60-pdr 127mm BL heavy gun, used in WW1, replaced from 1941 by 4.5-in and 5.5-in guns.
[/pre]

As you can see, 76mm guns might be 12-pdrs, 13-pdrs, 15-pdrs or 17-pdrs, 84mm guns might be 18-pdrs or 20-pdrs.
It is, however, a pretty solid rule that 2-pdrs are 40mm, 3-pdrs are 47mm, and 6-pdrs are 57mm.
Note that where more than one gun of a given poundage exists, the designation includes an additional bit giving the weight of the gun in hundredweights. So, the familiar 6-pdr 7 cwt weights about 7 hundredweight, 112 x 7 = 784 lbs or 356 Kg. A hundredweight, 112 lbs, is one-twentieth of a ton (2240 lbs).
As far as I can make out, before common sense in ordnance designation prevailed, it was the British custom to designate guns by their poundage, but howitzers by their calibre in inches. This would have made sense back when guns fired roundshot, where for any material there is a fixed relationship between the weight of a sphere and its diameter, but howitzers fired shell, where there isn’t because it depends on the filling. British gunners seem to have maintained the distinction between shot (solid) and shell (hollow) for longer than those of other nations.

All the best,

John.

[Deleted User]

Thanks for the list. I didn’t know multiple pdr guns had the same calibre.

[vtsaogames]

Thanks John, will copy that list into my files. It will save me a lot of head scratching in the future.

It's never too late to have a happy childhood

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