Home Forums General General Is Wargaming Dying in the US?

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  • #32312
    Avatar photoNick the Lemming
    Participant

    Name calling is not cool.

     

    Neither is being a lying misogynist, but you seem happy enough to allow him to post here.

     

    You’ll also note I didn’t mention him by name. The fact that you immediately recognise who I’m talking about speaks volumes, I’d say.

    #32313
    Avatar photoNick the Lemming
    Participant

    I had to Google magniloquent

     

    Couldn’t think of any other similar word beginning with M. 😀

    #32315
    Avatar photoMike
    Keymaster

    Name calling is not cool.

    Neither is being a lying misogynist, but you seem happy enough to allow him to post here.

    You’ll also note I didn’t mention him by name. The fact that you immediately recognise who I’m talking about speaks volumes, I’d say.

    Unless people’s posting here disrupts the forum they are welcome to post, assuming they follow the rules.
    I try not to judge people by their actions on other sites, just how they act here.
    Otherwise half the people that post on FU-UK Froth Pot would not be welcome to post here!
    However they respect what TWW is about, so when here they are nice.

    Anyone that pollutes TWW water will be moved on.
    Be that in the form of sexism, racism, bullying etc.

    TWW is a place for people to come together and share the hobby in a respectful manner.

    I try to keep my personal prejudices out of the moderation role.
    When posting as AB however, not so much…

    #32318
    Avatar photoNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    Only half?

    Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

    #32321
    Avatar phototeppsta
    Participant

    #unleashchiangkaishek!

    Hi Mike / Nick

    I am really confused about your behaviour. What part of Otto’s post did you find brought to mind a Chinese dictator.

    #32323
    Avatar photoSane Max
    Participant

    c’mon people, If I of all people can behave like an adult* here, you all can surely?

    *it’s just a question of approaching it like an RPG. Character Class – Grownup. Alignment – stupid neutral.

    I know nothing about US wargaming scene, the only things that jump out at me about it are the shop-based gaming scene and the fact that a lot of the players seem to be ex-army. How much of the problem is down the the recession hammering shops? I know in the UK the traditional Games Shop was run by a man who would struggle to operate a van devoted to giving away free pies and chips outside a football stadium, a recession will surely hit an inept enthusiast pretty hard.

    The educational requirement thing is surely BS, The sort of games that require any abnormal mathematical or literary skills to play deserve to die anyway. One of the best gamers I ever met was technically quite possibly more cabbage than human, and he was a natural.

    #32327
    Avatar photoOtto Schmidt
    Participant

    Dear Sane Max

    Your observations are fairly correct. A lot of gaming was done, and actually IS still done at game stores, not all of them have been wiped out by the recession, and a few are going strong. These have managed to hang on and some do well because they cannily market their products the right way. The stores that fail are usually those that are under-capitalized and not in good locations.  One hobby store nearby which I frequent has a very open and liberal policy to gaming in store. Granted a lot of it is card games, board games, and the like, but a lot of Warhammer goes on and other minis as well. She’s a game and hobby store and does a lot of special ordering. She tells me that the gaming in store is a critical part of it as kids, and I mean kids sometimes, like the social aspect. She admits that she’s being taken advantage of by parents who use her as a baby-sitting service by dumping their kids off when they go shopping or the beauty parlor or nail salon, but she notes that the kids always come with spending money, and they usually drop it there. Another location I know of that does well is in Farmington Maine, where there are two game stores, but then this is a big college town and college kids are huge gamers.

    I don’t think you’re as correct with most gamers being Army vets. But that may be just from those that post. There are a lot of prior-service people in gaming, but a lot who have never been in uniform as well.

    Still, regardless of the stores, I believe that the vast majority of American gamers are neither in stores nor clubs, but in “basement groups”  scattered around where its more a private social past time. This doesn’t mean they are anti-social at all, but just don’t have a club or store to hook up with, and even though they have the game in their own home will avidly invite anyone and welcome “bring alongs” with open arms. (Hey, I told a friend at work about gaming and he’d like to come and try.”

    One thing about that is the distance people in the US are willing to travel for a game or a convention. For a game two hours and 120 miles is nothing, and for a convention some people will trek days for even a small local one. Now that I am retired I am hoping to get up to Huzzah in Maine regularly, and even to the Seven Years War Convention, which I’ve been wanting to get to for a decade but could never get the vacation time to do.

    Oh yeah, one thing the two hobby store owners told me is that the recession didn’t hurt their business much. People are always willing to spend money on toys.

    Otto

    #32328
    Avatar photoLagartija Mike
    Spectator

    Chiang Kai-shek was far from a dictator: warm, generous and (courtesy of Mme. Chiang’s diligent tweezing) almost entirely hairless: few knew of his collection of ancient Chinese balloon animals. It was he who initiated the airlift of nubile Pekinese busboys to Salt Lake City during the Mormon “Low T” crisis during the ’60s, forever changing the charge of impressionable young Mormon crotch magnets.

    I’m delighted that newly minted vagabond Otto has a new venue to retail his hallucinations and clumsy fantasies: who among us didn’t thrill to his erotic contretemps with Brezhnev’s orthodontist, or failed to nod approvingly as he, in a fit of undermedicated distemper, barked at passing random females?

    #32329
    Avatar photoSane Max
    Participant

    Dear, Dear Otto. I can call you Otto can’t I?

    (seiously. If you are going to start ‘Dear Sane Max’ should you not finish with ‘yours sincerely’?

    I didn’t say ‘most’, I said ‘a lot’.

    and yes, I agree, toys are one of the last things to be affected, as they are a nice little luxury that cheers one up when times are bad, and are not that pricey. I meant the effect of the recession more in the sense of the owners and operators suddenly finding they could not get the easy financing and credit they had learned to rely on to keep themselves afloat even in the good times. It’s quite startling how many small businesses assume there will always be more credit, more finance, and how fast they drop when things tighten up just a little.

    Pat

    #32331
    Avatar photoEarther
    Participant

    Lagartija Mike, save it for the drive-bys over on That Other Site, mate. As much as I like your purple prose writing style, this really isn’t the place for Bill Baiting. Otto is only talking toy soldiers. Plus, it’s an interesting thread that you started.

    It would be a shame for it to devolve into the kind of nonsense a stroke-suffering-bonobo would write. You know, what you see ‘Elsewhere’. 

    #32360
    Avatar photoOtto Schmidt
    Participant

    Dear Sane Max

    I use the “Dear” as a simple friendly appellation. On my own Society of Daisy List I use it all the time. Dear simply is the old fashioned style of address, and a rather nice one. It’s not meant as a put down or an insult, and I mean it only to be friendly. If you find that distasteful let me know.

    I agree with the factors you bring up with regard to credit and financing. Unfortunately credit and financing  is no matter how you want to express it, borrowing money. I do know the details of the collapse of several game stores and business who abused the privilege. From my work career in Industrial Planning and Distribution I also know of many companies that extend out payments 90, 100, 240 days.  It’s hard to get stock when you owe the manufacturer for so much already not paid for. I know of several situations where manufacturers (in the hobby as well as generally) keep selling stock to distributors or stores because they fear that if they cut them off they will go bust and they will have no chance of getting their money back, so they basically support them  long after they have evinced an inability to pay, not wanting to be the “straw that breaks the camels back.” Unfortunately that back gets broken and the manufacturer can’t get his merchandise back because it’s held up in bankruptcy court.

    The problem is also one that begins with the gamers.  Especially miniature gamers. Gamers would LIKE the stores to stock a lot of stuff for them to pick and choose from as the whim srikes them. But the money that would entail being tied up on the shelf till “the whim strikes” is huge from the standpoint of a game store.  Proprieters just can’t afford the inventory exposure.  Besides, I’ve personally seen it happen where the store owner will try, and will put in a decent range of something, but gamers turn their nose up at it with “I’ve moved on to the Russo Japanese War” or “You can get it for cheaper by ordering direct.” True, you can, but then don’t kvetch that the store owners have nothing to buy.  In one case that comes to mind they were pestering this one hobby shop to put in English Civil War stuff with lots of promises that they would get into the period heavily. The guy did and they bought four blister packs, total.  That’s exacerbated by so many choices today.  Further I’ve known not one store owner who didn’t offer to special order all someone wanted and give them a good price, and no one ever took them up on it.

    I believe almost all that cold be said about war game manufacturing and business was said by the owner of  “Old Glory” that “If you want to make a small fortune in war games, start with a large one.”

    The really successful game stores that catered at all to minis and war games were those that usually had some secret going for them. I remember on guy who had a really good game store, and it went on for a decade or so. He died and that’s why it went out of business, but the secret was that he owned the building and had 8 upscale apartments in it which carried the overhead so he didn’t have to pay rent. Another was able to keep going by huge portions of the store being devoted to Model Railoading, kids toys, jigsaw puzzles, and “gifts” for Christmas and Birthdays.  The problem with finance is that if you can’t pay 30 days net, then it’s going to be a problem.

    One other point, I knew a guy who owned a shop and the big problem he had wasn’t with suppliers or gamers. He was really locked into whatever his distributors had and wanted to put on his shelf, and when he would try and special order things for gamers, the distributor just wasn’t interested. They would and did send him tons of stuff he didn’t want, which eventually he had to get returned, but they made it very difficult to do customer service.

     

    Otto

     

    #32378
    Avatar photopaintpig
    Participant

    I have no idea Mike, I doubt that wargaming is dying in my own country. The focus is changing, we all saw how GW was the starting point for the noobs back when and I’m pretty sure there are other newer genres and game systems to capture the imagination of the young’uns nowadays.

    No not dying, we are just out of touch with the latest thang. Everything has it’s day and I suspect ancients will come around again.

    BTW I knew a guy….

    I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel
    Slowly Over A Low Flame

    #32398
    Avatar phototeppsta
    Participant

    Paintpig that’s a good point. Are we just seeing the GW generation preferring to play skirmish games rather than big tabletop battles since it is more closely linked to the 40k experience? And I can’t really think of any Ancients skirmish games – they tend to be Horse and Musket or later.

    #32403
    Avatar photopaintpig
    Participant

    Paintpig that’s a good point. Are we just seeing the GW generation preferring to play skirmish games rather than big tabletop battles since it is more closely linked to the 40k experience? And I can’t really think of any Ancients skirmish games – they tend to be Horse and Musket or later.

    I see a lot of games at open days that I didn’t now existed (a wonderful modern pulp-ish skirmish for one) and both the kids and 20 somethings are there in numbers. War games isn’t dying they’re there, it’s gaming Jim, but not as we know it.

    I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel
    Slowly Over A Low Flame

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