Lebanon 1982 Ratings?

[Darryl Smith]

Hello folks,

Has anyone completed “official” or unofficial ratings for both Israelis and Arabs (Syrians, militia, etc.) for the 1982 war in Force on Force or Ambush Alley terms? Would make my life a bit easier instead of having to create something myself.

Thanks!

Buckeye Six Actual
https://checkingmy6.blogspot.com/

[Darryl Smith]

tap tap tap…is this thing on? No one has rated up Israelis for FoF or AA?

Buckeye Six Actual
https://checkingmy6.blogspot.com/

[Mike]

Looks like you can set the gold standard with your own stats.

☺

[charles hrach]

Please post what you eventually come up with- I would like to try out that conflict eventually too.

[Shawn Carpenter]

I haven’t done a lot of reading on the conflict, so I’m not really able to get down in the weeds on troop ratings. You can’t go too wrong by remembering the following things, though:

TQ D8 troops represent decently trained professional troops. If they’re poorly led, their Confidence may be Poor, while if they’re very well-led, it may be High.

Troops who are highly motivated will have a D10 or higher Morale. Troops with average Morale will throw D8s, while those that would really rather be somewhere else will roll D6s.

It’s really up to your interpretation of history as to where troops from different conflicts fall on the TQ/Confidence/Morale continuum . . . and what applies to a unit at one point in time might not apply to them earlier or later in history.

Hope this helps a little!

Shawn Carpenter
[email protected]
www.ambushalleygames.net

[Darryl Smith]

Thanks all, and yes Shawn, those are good guidelines to consider. Guess I can come up with something, post it here, and see if we can drive some discussion to get some sort of consensus on the 1982 war.

Buckeye Six Actual
https://checkingmy6.blogspot.com/

[Shawn Carpenter]

That would be great, Darryl. I’ll be happy to contribute to the discussion and learn more about the ’82 conflict.

Shawn Carpenter
[email protected]
www.ambushalleygames.net

[Hanno Barka]

I’m just getting into this conflict (starting doing research in fall) and would happily be part in the discussion 🙂

Austria - usually we don't have kangaroos.

[maggico]

I have this. It’s a file in a Yahoo discussion group (ToE & OoB):

PLO 1982 TO&E
From David Eshel; “The Lebanon war 1982”.
A PLO battalion had no more than 200 men, including logistics staff. Each battalion had 2 or 3
companies each with 50-80 men and a large support company consisting of whatever they had
acquired.
Battalion
HQ Co 1 SA7 – 1 car/ light truck
– 2 /3 Companies each with 3 RPG 7 *
– 1 Support Company with:
– 1 82 mm or 120mm mortar with 2 crew
– 1 Sagger ATGW or 1 82mm RR or 1 107mm RR with 2 crew**
– 1 12.7mm HMG with 2 crew **
– 1 14.5mm AA or 1 23mm AA or 1 37mm AA gun with 2 crew**
* 1 figure in each battalion may have a 50mm mortar or an M16/203
** maybe mounted in a vehicle
The PLO had some 15,000 fighters in Lebanon at the time of the 1982 Israeli invasion. The basic
building bloc for the PLO was the brigade.
PLO brigades were made up of 5 battalion sized units, with additional specialized support units
added when needed. A PLO battalion will be localized, it will focus on an area, usually a village,
and the battalion HQ will make itself at home in the area. Usually imposing a kind of local
sheriffdom, or Mafia style rule.
Some PLO brigades
Kastel Brigade; western territorial. Had its HQ at Sidon. Commanded by Haj Ismail. Covered the
area from the Litani River to Nabatiya.
Karameh Brigade; located on the eastern slopes of Mount Hermon, often refered to as ‘Fatah’ land.
Reserve brigade; dedicated to act as a support for the above two, active in recruiting in the refugee
camps at Barad River and El Badawi. HQ in Tripoli.
Azandi Brigade; based in Beirut.
PLO Support Units
Armour: about 60 T34/85’s, some T54’s and Charioteers.
APC: BTR152, BTR 60, BTR 40, BRDM 1, and BRDM 2. And also some UR 416’s.
Artillery: D44 85mm anti tank guns, M38 122 howitzers, M46 130mm guns. And also 60mm,
82mm, 120mm and 160mm mortars.
MRL: Type 63, BM11, 13 and 24.
Anti Aircraft weapons: 14.5mm, twin 14.5mm, quad 14.5 mm, twin 23mm, 37mm, twin 37mm, S60
57mm. There were also plenty of SA7 and some reported SA9.

[Hanno Barka]

I think the question with PLO encounters is if in scenarios traditional aka symmetric warfare or asymetric secnario design is more apprbriate. If you look at them superficially they seem to be a “regular” military force albeit lacking in discipline and strong organisation but they also used elements of asymetric warfare like the “Young Lions” or civilists as “bodyshields”. Also they were not really fighting on territory of their own beeing as much an foreign invasor as the IDF.
To me it seems they fall somewhere in between symetric and asymetric warfare, so maybe decide on a scenario per scenario base?

Austria - usually we don't have kangaroos.

[maggico]

I think that for the most part is an asymmetrical force. They like to name their brigades only for esprit de corps. About the OoB is more a statistic view that a really organization. Perhaps some more trained unit was disciplined,  but they are organized to appear a symmetric force only on paper.

[Splod]

I don’t have the books on hand, but the core Force on Force book has a Golan Heights scenario. While that is only armour, and a ’73 conflict, it should serve as a good start for TQ/Morale.

I looked at gaming this conflict some years back, but struggled to find suitable figures (Elhiem now has IDF, just need OPFOR!).

[Hanno Barka]

Did you check RH Models? I should get the PLO figures I ordered in the next days. I can post a review as soon as I get them. He also has Syrians and generic Arabian Infantry with soviet equip.
Under Fire has beautiful IDF too (I posted some pictures in the FB group) and also starts to do Syrians (one squad so far)

Austria - usually we don't have kangaroos.

[Hanno Barka]

Totally forgot tp post- got my RH Figures meanwhile and they are abolutely lovely. Considering size and bulk they are somewhere in between Elhiem and Under Fire and fit nicely with both ranges. The sculpts are very detailed and the little chaps really have personalities.
The RH website is quite the internet stoneage, but ordering worked out fine – I phoned throug my credit card number (Rolf was very helpful and also very helpful regarding questions on the range) and then I sent an email with the order.
Casting was really good (no mould lines almost no flash) and delivery really fast – about a week from England to Austria.

Austria - usually we don't have kangaroos.

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