Home Forums WWII Like Crossfire? Have you seen this?

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  • #132328
    JozisTinMan
    Participant

    I absolutely LOVE Crossfire by Arty Conliffe and it (along with the supplement Hit the Dirt!) are some of the few hard copy rules I still own.   But, alas, the rules are no longer in print and not available in my preferred electronic form (that I know of)

    (This may be common knowledge but…) Enter these guys: https://onepagerules.com/portfolio/one-off-games/

    Take a look at their rules Covering Fire!  It is heavily influenced by Crossfire and is free.  If you are a Crossfire fan, this offers an opportunity introduce other guys to a similar game.  If you are not familiar with Crossfire, be prepared for a deceptively simple game that forces you to think tactically about things like fields of fire, covered and concealed avenues of approach, etc. with no rulers!

    I am not affiliated with them at all, but i really hope they expand on this.

    Now, I am off om vacation, enjoy!

    If you are unfamiliar with Crossfire, read the info here: http://www.lloydianaspects.co.uk/wargaming/crossfireRules.html#mainSection

     

    http://jozistinman.blogspot.com/

    #132332

    Nice find, Patrick!

    I very much enjoyed Crossfire.  The rules are a bit confusing at first but the game flows quite well.  The game linked above is like a 1 page intro set for Crossfire.  No vehicles just infantry and MGs.

    John

    "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    --Abraham Lincoln

    #132336
    Thuseld
    Participant

    I have owned a copy of Crossfire since about 2006 and have yet to play it. I love the idea of them but never had the miniatures for it. Maybe I should give it a chance.

    #132337
    ian pillay
    Participant

    Great set of alternative rules that pave the way to full blown crossfire. I downloaded them a few weeks back but not played them yet. As mentioned no vehicles just infantry engagements.

    Tally-Ho!

    #132339
    JozisTinMan
    Participant

    You have to try it!  Weirdo that I am, it was the first WW2 game I ever played.  In fact it was the first game I played in the 90’s that was not DBA or DBM…

    Yeah, this is a very abbreviated set, but I think they may add to it.  I really wish there was an electronic version of Crossfire, anyone know Arty Conliffe? I bet someone on here does.


    @thuseld
    , I actually played my first few games with cardboard counters the size of bases.  Once you get your head around it and understand that you have a lot of terrain on the table (that is normally abstracted in most games) it flows really well and the rules are very “transparent” when playing.

    Of course John, I will never forget the last Southern Front, where we had the only troops left on the table facing each other in Mike’s game.

    http://jozistinman.blogspot.com/

    #132340
    Daniele V
    Participant

    I played a lot Crossfire-WW2 back on the years. The rules were great for infantry engagements in dense terrain. No distance measuring and no fixed turns. There were rules for tanks but they did not work as well imho. I think Arty Conliffe gave up wargaming and never published again these and his other rules after they were sold out…

    #132342
    JozisTinMan
    Participant

    I found a two-year-old thread on TMP where Timecast was trying to get in touch with him, but that is the best I can do.  It would be s shame if his existing innovative designs disappeared. I think I will scan my copy and save it to the cloud for my personal use so I don’t have to fret about losing it, my copy is well used / loved.

    http://jozistinman.blogspot.com/

    #132344
    Russell Phillips
    Participant

    I haven’t played Crossfire, but it always sounded interesting. I
    just downloaded and read Covering Fire. It looks just as interesting as Crossfire always sounded, but on a single sheet 🙂

    Military history author
    Website : Twitter : Facebook

    #132360
    Andrew Rolph
    Participant

    …I really wish there was an electronic version of Crossfire, anyone know Arty Conliffe?…

    …I think Arty Conliffe gave up wargaming and never published again these and his other rules after they were sold out…

    I had the briefest of email exchanges with him a couple of years ago when I wanted to put together an SCW variant for Spearhead, his WWII brigade/divisional rules. He has not dropped out of the industry altogether and sometime last year saw the long awaited (20+ years) publication of Tactica II (ancients rules).

    However, I get the feeling that he was a victim of his own success following SH’s publication and became burnt out answering questions about them – not so much just rules clarifications but design philosophy; queries why such a tank was rated x when it should clearly be y; discussions over what SH II might look like and when would it be published etc. I believe  he felt it was relentless and it wore him down.

    He seemed like a nice chap in my correspondence but quite old school. For whatever reasons, electronic versions of his work and pdfs (or indeed the use of any dice other than D6s) are not something he readily supports. I do note that Great War SH is available on a memory stick though.

    Cheers

    Andrew

    #132371
    Daniele V
    Participant

    I just read the Covering Fire one page rules… they are indeed a basic / condensed version of Crossfire WW2 (without any reference to the original rules, uhm)..  for those interested I will really suggest to dig for a copy… on ebay or maybe some online shop has still them

     

     

    #132375
    JozisTinMan
    Participant

    I did see where they referenced Crossfire somewhere, maybe on their Patreon Page I think.  But I agree I would like that to be more visible. 99% of work is derivative in some way and it is just good manners to acknowledge that.


    @andrew
    , on the off chance you can still get in touch with him, maybe put the bug in his ear about using some sort of print on demand service like Lulu.  Then his products are always a hard copy but no overhead for him and people can still get his creations.

    Of course, another alternative is Ivan’s 5 Core Company Command.  You get a similar feel with reaction fire and the difficulty of moving in the open in front of unsuppressed enemies. It is at: https://www.wargamevault.com/product/141387/FiveCore-Company-Command

    Ok, NOW I am off on vacation.

    http://jozistinman.blogspot.com/

    #132390
    Tactical Painter
    Participant

    Crossfire was the rule set that brought me back into playing miniatures after a 30 year hiatus playing board (war)games. I loved the innovation, the command and control and the unpredictability of the sequence of play. It wasn’t perfect but really tried to do things differently, I’ve always thought it was like a Beta version and with more play testing and refinement could have turned into a really solid system.

    By the way, you cannot copyright game rules or mechanics. The only thing you can copyright is the exact wording in your rules. You can take an entire set of game mechanics from someone else, give it a new name and rewrite them in your own style and you’re good to go. You might not be being very original but you’re not doing anything illegal. Think about it, who owns the rights to using dice to resolve outcomes in a game? Who owns the rights to have three dimensional game pieces that you move across a defined playing surface? Using rulers to determine movement and range?

    The Tactical Painter - painting miniature armies for battles on the table top.
    http://www.thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/

    #132392
    Tony S
    Participant

    But you can patent “inventions”, and game mechanisms can be classed as inventions.  Of course, copyrights cost $35, whereas patents are a lot more.  You could try and patent dice, but as it would be rather easy to show prior art, in that dice had been invented long before you came along.   The game Monopoly and Twister are patented for example.

    That said, I’m not a lawyer and only took a few law courses at my local college for interest, so I will bow to anyone – which is probably most of you! – with experience, training and real knowledge of patent and copyright laws!

    And harking back to the original topic, like Thuseld I’ve owned Crossfire and Hit the Dirt since they appeared, but have yet to play a game, despite an interest in its innovative mechanisms.   Truth be told, I find Conliffe’s “legalese” or SPI style of rules writing somewhat off putting at times.   Yet I enjoy DBA3, so shout “hypocrite” at me if you wish!

     

     

     

    #132399
    MartinR
    Participant

    If you like Crossfire, another modern alternative is Fireball Forward, which is an interesting blend of CF concepts and a Squad Leader feel.

     

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #132446

    <q>The game Monopoly and Twister are patented for example.</q>

    More for the look and feel of the game…artwork and such.  I could make a Monopoly game, call it something else and completely reword everything and nobody could stop me.  I doubt it would sell though. 😉  I suspect I’d run afoul of the copyright law if I made the board with exactly the same layout but with different wording.

    “Cover Fire” is fine.  Clearly done in the author’s own words and it appears their may be a few differences, especially in how groups work.  The latter may not be a bad thing. 😉

    John

    "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    --Abraham Lincoln

    #132452
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Yes, many many boardgames have copies, as do video games.
    You can trademark Twister, or Connect Four for example.
    To stop people in the same trade using your mark.
    And clearly your art and what not will be protected under copyright.

    But you can’t patent standing on coloured circles.

    https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/4094/inspired-monopoly-variants-and-rip-offs

    Some dude in Canada threatened to take legal action against me for my Crom’s Anvil business name as his business was also called that.
    I pointed out that firstly he had not trademarked his name, and secondly even if he had it would make no difference as we are very much different trades.
    He is a blacksmith operating out of a physical location in Canada selling big ass metal stuff.
    I am a website owner, selling plastic models and electronically formatted books from the UK.

    There is no way that anyone would be thinking they are driving up to his forge in Canada to buy a horse shoe, when in fact they just went to my website and bought a PDF.

    So even if he had trademarked his name, we are in different trades, in different countries, selling different things, via different means.

    /tangent over

    #132497
    Thorsten Frank
    Participant

    JozisTinMen, thanks for this link – this looks pretty interesting.

    "In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

    #132503
    Julie Earp
    Participant

    I’m not sure how to contact you directly, but if you let me how, i have a pdf version of crossfire if you’d like them.

    #132506
    Don Glewwe
    Participant

    Right here…

    Buy them.  They’re worth it.

    case closed

    https://onmilitarymatters.com/pages/dfsearch.php?term=keywords&data=crossfire&submit=Search

     

    https://brawlfactory.net/

    #132507
    vtsaogames
    Participant

    I have owned a copy of Crossfire since about 2006 and have yet to play it. I love the idea of them but never had the miniatures for it. Maybe I should give it a chance.

     

    Suggestion: cut out some cardboard pieces and label them Infantry, Platoon commander, MG, etc. Set out a bunch of terrain, get some dice and have at it. That might inspire you to purchase and paint some little guys. You can start with infantry and decide to add tanks later. I got a board gaming friend into DBA years back with cardboard pieces labeled spears, blades, and cardboard terrain. Now he owns a bunch of tin armies.

    For a simple scenario check  here

    I played this years back and loved it, as did one of my friends. Another guy just couldn’t wrap his head around the activation sequence. He felt that not being to able to respond to every move was unrealistic. But he’s not able to make the meetings any more, so when we’ve cleared our gaming schedule of the black powder we’ve been deep into, perhaps it will be time to trot out Crossfire again. We have some new members who have never seen or heard of it.

    This too shall pass

    #132510
    ian pillay
    Participant

    The 2×2 scenarios that can be found on Maximus Gluteus blog are a great starting point to get into crossfire.

    http://mgluteus.blogspot.com/search/label/Crossfire?m=1

    Tally-Ho!

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