Home Forums General General Model making is not a crime!

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This topic contains 37 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Geof Downton Geof Downton 2 days, 6 hours ago.

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  • #121823

    6Mil Phil
    Participant

    I had a video banned back in June under YouTube’s hate speech policy. Some kind soul wrote a piece about it…

    YouTube’s “hate speech” rules claim more casualties, this time modeling and tabletop game communities

    #121825
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Sucks chunks.

    Show us your games!!

    #121828
    Guy Farrish
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    That’s a bit thick, especially when you see some of the stuff that remains up there.

    There’s a difference between documenting something objectionable (or making a model of it/playing a game about it) and promoting it.

    Easy pickings to boost the numbers and tick the boxes to satisfy governments pressurising social media companies.

    #121829
    CP Models
    CP Models
    Participant

    Worlds gone mad, makes you wonder whats next in PC land

    #121831
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Worlds gone mad, makes you wonder whats next in PC land

    More of a console gamer than PC myself.

    #121834
    CP Models
    CP Models
    Participant

    Wrong PC or was it a cunning pun

    #121835
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    It was a reminder that TWW is about gaming not politics..

    😉

    #121836
    CP Models
    CP Models
    Participant

    Fair point, sorry didn’t even think about it just fired away

     

    #121837
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Thats ok, I try not to be a total stick in the mud, but these things have a tendency to spiral if not careful.

    #121838
    CP Models
    CP Models
    Participant
    #121839
    Rhoderic
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    The thread title corresponds with my observations. Model making has not been criminalised.

    #121840

    VBCW, huh? I wonder what they’ll do, when someone there stumbles across this?

    I’d tend to put much of this down to simple ignorance.

    #121909

    Thomaston
    Participant

    Mention the word ‘war’ as part of your hobby and it’ll either start a dicussion or get a good sneering.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by  Thomaston.

    Tired is enough.

    #121916
    Ochoin
    Ochoin
    Participant

    “Model making is not a crime”

    huh? You should my efforts. They’re criminal.

     

    donald

    #122271

    The article never mentions precisely what was in the video that may be controversial.  It dances around the topic.  So, what was so offending?  Other model making videos are fine along with other videos that actually contain imagery likes swastikas etc.  There must have been something particular in the video that caused it to get flagged.  What was it?

    Podcast Host: Wargaming Recon
    "Discussing Historical & New England Gaming"
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    #122302
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    The article never mentions precisely what was in the video that may be controversial. It dances around the topic. So, what was so offending? Other model making videos are fine along with other videos that actually contain imagery likes swastikas etc. There must have been something particular in the video that caused it to get flagged. What was it?

    I don’t think YouTube offered an explanation, but rather cited hate speech as the reason, removed the video and that was that.
    But from the blog, I suspect that it had content like this:

    And the Tube thought it was promoting some sort of political dissent, rather than a game of pretend.

    #122303
    Rhoderic
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    Did the video contain the actual audio of the recorded Moseley speech?

    #122334
    Guy Farrish
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    You mean like this?

    Moseley

    Which has the man addressing a rally in Manchester.

    I’m really struggling to keep apolitical on this one, but I have to say that I was…surprised?…at the comments on the video wishing he had been leader and how much  better off Britain woud have been, if he had been.

    Playing a game with his lot as a ‘faction’ seems odd to me, but to ban a video about a game and allow this video and its comments to stand, is definitely a double standard.

     

     

    #122341
    Rhoderic
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    You mean like this? Moseley Which has the man addressing a rally in Manchester. I’m really struggling to keep apolitical on this one, but I have to say that I was…surprised?…at the comments on the video wishing he had been leader and how much better off Britain woud have been, if he had been. Playing a game with his lot as a ‘faction’ seems odd to me, but to ban a video about a game and allow this video and its comments to stand, is definitely a double standard.

    I’m aware the audio remains available elsewhere on YouTube. The article stated as much. I’m asking for different reasons.

    YouTube’s behaviour in this matter is certainly a double standard. Certainly indicative of the dysfunctional and ham-fisted self-policing of the online media and social media giants (which is the true concern of the people running the website that published the article, and a legitimate concern it is, though also a complex one).

    But…

    If the video was removed for containing audio deemed by a YouTube employee to be hate speech, then, regardless of whether or not YouTube has inconsistently allowed other videos with the same audio, does the outrage really connect to the hobby in any meaningful way? Or is the hobby connection just a random, inconsequential coincidence? That is, a case of a video with hobby content being removed for difficult-to-handle reasons that weren’t to do with the hobby content?

    Remember, this is a thread with a title that suggests, hyperbolically I’m afraid, that we model makers are being treated as criminals because we’re model makers. That’s the context I’m writing this reply in.

    I’m not convinced that anyone is out to get us.

    #122349
    Cerdic
    Cerdic
    Participant

    Is it conspiracy or cock-up?

    With the wisdom that comes with age,  I’ll go with cock-up every time…

    #122350
    Guy Farrish
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    Me too.

    I don’t think YouTube/Google is out to get wargamers.

    I think there is a bigger point about the accountability of social media companies as arbiters of what is allowed and not allowed. Cases like this are no big deal in the greater scheme of things, but they serve to remind us of the complete indifference to fairness of such organisations and their belief that whatever they do is right regardless of the evidence.

     

     

    #122351

    I have to break in here to say that is a very impressive model! Kudos!

    I’d play, but only if I get to be Bertie Wooster. Which leads me to ask, does anyone make a suitable figure?

    #122353
    Guy Farrish
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    This Footsore Bank Manager? – (There is a Bertie and Butler – but they don’t look right to me)

     

    And the Drones Club members for help?

    Not sure what to do about Jeeves though.

    #122369

    Bertie and the Drones with shotguns?

    I forsee a number of self-inflicted wounds!

    #122370
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    Not to be political (and Mike, feel free to censor this if you like), but I am an anarcho-socialist who lives in a multi-generational black feminist collective with 13 arrests for anti-nuke civil disobedience on my CV. My life is chock full of hippies, pinkos, commies, and LGBTQXSH folks of all sorts and never — NOT ONCE — have any of them expressed displeasure with my hobby, in 36 years of being this way.

    Most people who know me are charmed by the fact that I paint toy soldiers. The chicks dig it, too (unfortunately most of them are under eight and think it is great I play with dollies).

    So if there is politics involved in this, I can say from long and drawn out experience it is not from the radical left. In fact, my trotskyite comrade John is positively enthused by the idea of AVBCW.

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #122371
    Guy Farrish
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    Maybe Jeeves has all the ammunition somewhere safe?

    (Oops – aimed at Hafen, not a commentary on anarcho socialists!)

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 19 hours ago by Guy Farrish Guy Farrish.
    • This reply was modified 4 days, 19 hours ago by Guy Farrish Guy Farrish.
    #122374
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    Well, one would expect Jeeves would have some bullets set by if any anarcho-socialists came calling, as a matter of course.

    😉

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #122395
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Not to be political (and Mike, feel free to censor this if you like), but I am an anarcho-socialist who lives in a multi-generational black feminist collective with 13 arrests for anti-nuke civil disobedience on my CV. My life is chock full of hippies, pinkos, commies, and LGBTQXSH folks of all sorts and never — NOT ONCE — have any of them expressed displeasure with my hobby, in 36 years of being this way.

    Most people who know me are charmed by the fact that I paint toy soldiers. The chicks dig it, too (unfortunately most of them are under eight and think it is great I play with dollies).

    So if there is politics involved in this, I can say from long and drawn out experience it is not from the radical left. In fact, my trotskyite comrade John is positively enthused by the idea of AVBCW.

    That was very political, why say you are not being political then say all that?
    This is why we can’t have nice things.

    #122400
    Guy Farrish
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    Well – to be fair the entire thread – the original post itself- is essentially political.

    You can’t talk about censorship, representations of fascist propaganda and the acceptability of recording of demagogues on publicly availiable media without being political. You may avoid overt ‘Party’ politics but any sensible comment is going to be based upon a political understanding of the world and the boundaries of free speech.

    I thought Thaddeus was just joining in with the ‘they aren’t coming for us yet’ vibe and contextualising the view.

    Of course if your comment was tongue in cheek and ironic I am a very silly Billy.

    #122403
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    YouTube banning a gaming video for Hate Speech is one thing, quite related to gaming.
    Someone telling us about their arrest record, their own personal political affiliations and so on is not really to do with gaming, YouTubes policy or in keeping with the vibe here at TWW.

    No-one has come here to learn more about peoples personal political leanings.
    This is not the platform for that.

    I think as Rhoderic touched upon earlier, the topic title is maybe misleading?
    No-one was accused by YouTube of being a criminal, and IF, IF they were it seems it would have been due to the political nature of the video and not the fact it is about a wargame, as thousands of such videos are still on YouTube.

    #122405
    Mike
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Well – to be fair the entire thread – the original post itself- is essentially political.

    I did debate locking it early doors, but instead have been following it. The images of miniatures gave me hope.

     

    #122458

    Indeed. Now, who makes a Jeeves?

    Enlarged occipital and parietal required.

    #122592
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    Mike, in the U.S. “PC” is generally understood as a term for do-gooder lefties. Other commenters have claimed that this censorship is linked to “the PC set”.

    My comments were made to contextualize that I am about as “PC” as one can get and so is all my social set, yet no one has ever bothered to criticize my hobby.

    What is happening here may or may not be authoritarian censorship. What it is NOT is “PC”, as people above have suggested.

    That is all my comments were meant to indicate.

     

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #122594
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    Returning to miniatures related content, does anyone know what happened to London in the AVBCW universe? One would think it would be civil war in a civil war.

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #122600
    kyoteblue
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    I just like all the Very Civil British Civil War stuff!!!

    #122606
    Guy Farrish
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    Always thought the idea of AVBCW was a bit uncomfortable.

    The central conceit of the non-abdication of the King seems irrelevant today (?) but the rest of it has too many current resonances for comfort.

    The figures are great, but discussion of them on a thread about banning a wargame video is pretty tangential – however welcome that thread hijack may be.

    I wouldn’t ban the video or discussion of how to game it though.

    #122627

    I believe I’d want to convert some well-dressed young gentleman figures into bun-throwers, giving them some sort of “public humiliation” ability.

    But perhaps I’m not treating the subject with the seriousness it deserves.

    Edit: Speaking of public humiliation, thanks all for not mentioning my faux pas with the “shotguns” comment — I didn’t bother expanding the Drones pic on my phone. Oops!

    #122637
    Geof Downton
    Geof Downton
    Participant

    Always thought the idea of AVBCW was a bit uncomfortable.

    Me too, as I do with anything modern and too “political”, including WWII.

    No problem at all with Saul’s “ethnic cleansing” of the Amalekites c.1000 bce, however…

    To each his (or her) own, I guess…

    One who puts on his armour should not boast like one who takes it off.
    Ahab, King of Israel; 1 Kings 20:11

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