Home Forums WWII Most common British WWII tank?

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  • #183092
    Avatar photoDeleted User
    Member

    If you had to distill WWII down, say for a board game like Risk, what would be the tank to represent Btisish force?

    Russian T-34 and US M4 are obvious. Germany is probably Panzer IV

    #183093
    Avatar photoThuseld
    Participant

    Churchill. It is just so iconic.

    Memoir 44 used Crusaders IIIs.

    #183094
    Avatar photoMike Headden
    Participant

    Yup, I’d go with Churchill too as it serves through much of the war.

    Otherwise, 1940 – Matilda II, Western Desert – Crusaders, D-Day+ – Cromwell or Firefly

    There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

    #183096
    Avatar photoMike
    Keymaster

    Yeah the Churchill looks the business.

    #183097
    Avatar photoRussell Phillips
    Participant

    Another vote for Churchill. I think it looks very British, though I’d struggle to say why 🙂

    Military history author
    Website : Mastodon : Facebook

    #183099
    Avatar photoDeleted User
    Member

    Haha, looks like its overwhelming vote for Churchill.

    Thanks guys

    #183103
    Avatar photoirishserb
    Participant

    A little late, but I would probaby go with the Cromwell, more of them were built than any particular mark of Churchill, and it was medium tank as were those mentioned for the other nations.

    #183104
    Avatar photomadman
    Participant

    I think the Sherman should be the tank as they received over 17,000 of them. Probably more than they made of all or at least any home designed tank.

    #183105
    Avatar photohammurabi70
    Participant

    Well wiki tells us:

    Churchill 5,600

    Crusader 5,300

    Cromwell 4,000

    Valentine 8,200

    True that there were 17,000+ Shermans but it is rather … American.

    Choose as you wish.

    www.olivercromwell.org; www.battlefieldstrust.com
    6mm wargames group: [email protected]; 2mm wargames group: [email protected]

    #183134
    Avatar photoMike Headden
    Participant

    Well wiki tells us: Churchill 5,600 Crusader 5,300 Cromwell 4,000 Valentine 8,200 True that there were 17,000+ Shermans but it is rather … American. Choose as you wish.

    Which is why I suggested  the Firefly – British take on the commonest tank but it is late war so depends if that is relevant or not.

     

    There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

    #183144
    Avatar photowillz
    Participant

    I have got to go for a vickers light tank, iconic and no fire power.  Explains Britains fire power from 1939 – 1942.

    #183145
    Avatar photoDeleted User
    Member

    I went with the Cromwell for now. Churchill made sense since it was available almsot from start to end, but man is it ugly.
    I would have gone with a generic cruiser tank but Crusader’s turret is so distinctive.

    Wouldn’t be using Shermans for British, I want each nation to be unique. I might play a free for all and having Brits vs Yanks both with Shermans might be weird.


    @willz

    I like that idea, especially because I like light tanks the most.
    If I went with Vickers Mk VIc it’ll be going against T60/70, M3/M5
    PzII or Pz 38(t), but there aren’t any German late war light tank?

    #183146
    Avatar photoRussell Phillips
    Participant


    @willz

    I like that idea, especially because I like light tanks the most.
    If I went with Vickers Mk VIc it’ll be going against T60/70, M3/M5
    PzII or Pz 38(t), but there aren’t any German late war light tank?

    I’m not certain, but wasn’t the Panzer II L (AKA Luchs) in use as a reconnaissance vehicle up to the end of the war?

    Military history author
    Website : Mastodon : Facebook

    #183152
    Avatar photoMartinR
    Participant

    As noted above, the most produced British tank was the Valentine, although the bulk were sent to Russia.

    If I was going with an iconic British tank though, it would be the Crusader, 6pdr version. Direct lineage of that through the Cromwell, Comet and Centurian.

    How can anyone say the Churchill is ugly though! As Oddball might have said “It’s a beautiful tank Moriarty”.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #183158
    Avatar photoThuseld
    Participant

    I genuinely can’t believe people are going for Cromwell. Great tank, sure. Lots built, sure. I just think the Churchill is *the* British tank. As a kid and layman coming in to WW2 games (mostly just pew pewing) I had a vague sense of what a Churchill was, but it was years before I discovered the Cromwell. For the uninitiated who want to play this game, Churchill would, to me make more sense.

    Also, are we in agreement that the earlier models of  the Churchill were the prettiest?

    #183160
    Avatar photowillz
    Participant

    <a class=”bbp-user-mention bbp-user-id-450″ title=”

    @willz
    ” href=”https://www.thewargameswebsite.com/forums/users/willz/”&gt; @willz I like that idea, especially because I like light tanks the most. If I went with Vickers Mk VIc it’ll be going against T60/70, M3/M5 PzII or Pz 38(t), but there aren’t any German late war light tank?

    I’m not certain, but wasn’t the Panzer II L (AKA Luchs) in use as a reconnaissance vehicle up to the end of the war?

    Yep that’s correct.

    #183179
    Avatar photoMike Headden
    Participant

    I put the PzII Lynx in the same category as the Hetzer – cute but impractical

    The Lynx because it’s over-engineered for a recon vehicle and under-armoured and under-gunned for a late war tank. Hetzer because it’s a well armoured, well armed box you can’t see out of.

    Aesthetically I have a great fondness for light tanks but for actual combat, if I’m going to use a tank for recon, I want to emulate the Russians and use a T34-76 🙂

    There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

    #183180
    Avatar photoGeneral Slade
    Participant

    For me, the Bren Gun Carrier (or Universal Carrier if you insist) is the iconic British vehicle of WWII.  It’s not exactly a tank but they have got them in the Tank Museum and if it’s good enough for them . . .

    #183181
    Avatar photoDeleted User
    Member

    Damn it! You all are making me stray form my objective.

    First the Vickers Mk VI, Luch and now Bren carrier.
    I really want to go for WWII fought in tanketts now. Problem getting equivalents for US and German.

    I’m 60/40 between Cromwell vs Churchill. Originally I was thinking a cruiser tank for Brits but cfound out they’re not very uniform in looks. Churchill is quite a bit bigger than the others.

    #183182
    Avatar photowillz
    Participant
    • For me, the Bren Gun Carrier (or Universal Carrier if you insist) is the iconic British vehicle of WWII. It’s not exactly a tank but they have got them in the Tank Museum and if it’s good enough for them . . .

    Iconic understated fire power, mind you the Germans up-gunned them.

    #183183
    Avatar photowillz
    Participant

    Damn it! You all are making me stray form my objective.

    It’s a pleasure to be of some help and provide a fellow gamer with an overload of wargaming trivia😃.

    #183185
    Avatar photoDeleted User
    Member

    I googled “German Bren Carrier”
    This is officially my favorite tank of WWII.

    #183187
    Avatar photowillz
    Participant

    I googled “German Bren Carrier” This is officially my favorite tank of WWII.

    Cool I have not seen this version, good find

    #183189
    Avatar photoMartinR
    Participant

    I think four or possibly twelve of those Bren SP guns were made. Used by one German Infantry Division in Russia. I’d have to look at some books to find the exact number.

     

     

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #183198
    Avatar photoMike Headden
    Participant

    If that’s the 10.5cm leFH-16 auf Geschutzwagen auf Fahrgestell Mk VI 736(e) I thought they were built on the Vickers MkVI chassis rather than the bren carrier?

    I’m more at home on the Eastern Front with the Russian versions of German vehicles so may well be wrong.

    Talking of which, anyone know of a 1:150 scale model of the Russian SG-122?

    There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

    #183199
    Avatar photoDeleted User
    Member

    @Mike Headden
    You’re right, its based on the Mk VI.
    No idea about the Pz III conversion, I’m a WWII tank noob. From the stress on the front suspension though those guns must be real heavy.

    On the other hand I found a tankette for the US, Marmon-Herrington CTLS.

    #183200
    Avatar photoEtranger
    Participant

    I googled “German Bren Carrier” This is officially my favorite tank of WWII.

    Major Becker’s first conversion, using the chassis of the Mark VI light tank (not a carrier) , to produce a battery of 12 SP 105 mm howitzers for his artillery regiment, part of the 227th Infantry division. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10.5_cm_leFH_16_Gesch%C3%BCtzwagen_Mk_VI_736_(e)

    #183201
    Avatar photoEtranger
    Participant

    @Mike Headden You’re right, its based on the Mk VI. No idea about the Pz III conversion, I’m a WWII tank noob. From the stress on the front suspension though those guns must be real heavy. On the other hand I found a tankette for the US, Marmon-Herrington CTLS.

    The MH came in 2 versions, with R or L handed turrets…

     

    #183225
    Avatar photoDeleted User
    Member

    <p style=”font-size: 16px !important; line-height: 20px !important;”>The MH came in 2 versions, with R or L handed turrets…

    <p style=”font-size: 16px !important;”>

    I didn’t know the lef and right turret thing. I saw something like a CTML? With a 37mm center turret?

    I can see doing a little game were every tank is a variant of the universal carrier or Mk VI.

    #183227
    Avatar photoJim Webster
    Participant

    We did an early Western Desert game, based on a real action, where supporting the infantry were light tanks, tankettes and armoured cars.
    And the armoured cars were the real killers 🙂

    https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

    #183251
    Avatar photoNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    The question is ‘most common tank’, not ‘my favourite tank’, or ‘my favourite thing with tracks’*/***.

    It must be the Sherman by a wide margin.

    *I mean, we aren’t journalists**. One daily printed a photo of a military bulldozer and called it a ‘tank’ 🙂

    **If any of you are journalists, I’m so sorry. It must be dreadful.

    ***We aren’t politicians**** either, so let’s try to answer the question that was asked eh?

    ****If any of you are politicians, please find a tall building…

    Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

    #183253
    Avatar photoGuy Farrish
    Participant

    Been drinking the Plovdiv Cooperative Full Bodied Brake Fluid again have we sir?

    (I too was wondering how an SPG got to be a tank, but there you go).

    #183255
    Avatar photoMike
    Keymaster

    The question is ‘most common tank’, not ‘my favourite tank’, or ‘my favourite thing with tracks’*/***.

    Yes, but:

    “If you had to distill WWII down, say for a board game like Risk, what would be the tank to represent Btisish force?”

    So that is a different question no?

    #183256
    Avatar photoNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    The question is ‘most common tank’, not ‘my favourite tank’, or ‘my favourite thing with tracks’*/***.

    Yes, but: “If you had to distill WWII down, say for a board game like Risk, what would be the tank to represent Btisish force?” So that is a different question no?

    Yes it is, but that wasn’t the question that was asked in the thread title 😉

    Been drinking the Plovdiv Cooperative Full Bodied Brake Fluid again have we sir? (I too was wondering how an SPG got to be a tank, but there you go).

    See above 😉

    Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

    #183257
    Avatar photoNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    If the question had been ‘most iconic British tank of WWII?’ the answer would of course have been the Churchill.

    In service from 1941, until the end of the war and beyond.

    Everybody happy? 🙂

     

    Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

    #183259
    Avatar photoMike Headden
    Participant

    @ Not Connard Sage – I don’t think you understand how the Internet works 🙂

    A question is posed – what the question is is entirely irrelevant.

    This leads the internet hive mind to run off in a dozen different directions.

    This continues until two polar opposite beliefs have been established.

    Two cliques form prepared to die on the tiny hill of their preferred option.

    They provide increasingly arcane arguments – think “angels dancing on pin-heads.”

    This continues until either both sides collapse in exhaustion or a mod locks the thread in frustration.

    Also, the question was “Most common British WWII tank?” I’d argue the Sherman is an American tank in British Service and that therefore the Churchill, in it’s various incarnations, is the answer.

    I am neither a journalist nor a politician but I loves me a good argument. After all, how do you know what you truly believe if no-one tests your assumptions!

    🙂 🙂 🙂

     

    There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

    #183261
    Avatar photoGuy Farrish
    Participant

    This continues until two polar opposite beliefs have been established. Two cliques form prepared to die on the tiny hill of their preferred option.

    Two!

    What kind of crazy Utopian paradise do you live in?

    #183263
    Avatar photoNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    LOL!

    Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

    #183266
    Avatar photoDeleted User
    Member

    Yeah, ‘iconic’ is probably the better word to use there. My excuse is I’m weird!
    The idea behind the wuestion was what was the most commonly seen British tank in all theater. Like in the original post I’m looking for something to represent each nation.

    #183275
    Avatar photoGeneral Slade
    Participant

    Maybe we should decide how we are going to define ‘tank’ and work backwards (or forwards) from there?

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