Most common British WWII tank?

[Thomaston]

If you had to distill WWII down, say for a board game like Risk, what would be the tank to represent Btisish force?

Russian T-34 and US M4 are obvious. Germany is probably Panzer IV

Tired is enough.

[Thuseld]

Churchill. It is just so iconic.

Memoir 44 used Crusaders IIIs.

Experiments here: http://inexperiencedmodelmaker.blogspot.co.uk/

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[Mike Headden]

Yup, I’d go with Churchill too as it serves through much of the war.

Otherwise, 1940 – Matilda II, Western Desert – Crusaders, D-Day+ – Cromwell or Firefly

There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

[Mike]

Yeah the Churchill looks the business.

[Russell Phillips]

Another vote for Churchill. I think it looks very British, though I’d struggle to say why 🙂

Military history author
Website : Mastodon : Facebook

[Thomaston]

Haha, looks like its overwhelming vote for Churchill.

Thanks guys

Tired is enough.

[irishserb]

A little late, but I would probaby go with the Cromwell, more of them were built than any particular mark of Churchill, and it was medium tank as were those mentioned for the other nations.

[madman]

I think the Sherman should be the tank as they received over 17,000 of them. Probably more than they made of all or at least any home designed tank.

[hammurabi70]

Well wiki tells us:

Churchill 5,600

Crusader 5,300

Cromwell 4,000

Valentine 8,200

True that there were 17,000+ Shermans but it is rather … American.

Choose as you wish.

www.olivercromwell.org; www.battlefieldstrust.com
6mm wargames group: [email protected]; 2mm wargames group: [email protected]

[Mike Headden]

hammurabi70 wrote:

Well wiki tells us: Churchill 5,600 Crusader 5,300 Cromwell 4,000 Valentine 8,200 True that there were 17,000+ Shermans but it is rather … American. Choose as you wish.

Which is why I suggested  the Firefly – British take on the commonest tank but it is late war so depends if that is relevant or not.

 

There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

[willz]

I have got to go for a vickers light tank, iconic and no fire power.  Explains Britains fire power from 1939 – 1942.

[Thomaston]

I went with the Cromwell for now. Churchill made sense since it was available almsot from start to end, but man is it ugly.
I would have gone with a generic cruiser tank but Crusader’s turret is so distinctive.

Wouldn’t be using Shermans for British, I want each nation to be unique. I might play a free for all and having Brits vs Yanks both with Shermans might be weird.

@willz
I like that idea, especially because I like light tanks the most.
If I went with Vickers Mk VIc it’ll be going against T60/70, M3/M5
PzII or Pz 38(t), but there aren’t any German late war light tank?

Tired is enough.

[Russell Phillips]

Thomaston wrote:

@willz
I like that idea, especially because I like light tanks the most.
If I went with Vickers Mk VIc it’ll be going against T60/70, M3/M5
PzII or Pz 38(t), but there aren’t any German late war light tank?

I’m not certain, but wasn’t the Panzer II L (AKA Luchs) in use as a reconnaissance vehicle up to the end of the war?

Military history author
Website : Mastodon : Facebook

[MartinR]

As noted above, the most produced British tank was the Valentine, although the bulk were sent to Russia.

If I was going with an iconic British tank though, it would be the Crusader, 6pdr version. Direct lineage of that through the Cromwell, Comet and Centurian.

How can anyone say the Churchill is ugly though! As Oddball might have said “It’s a beautiful tank Moriarty”.

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

[Thuseld]

I genuinely can’t believe people are going for Cromwell. Great tank, sure. Lots built, sure. I just think the Churchill is *the* British tank. As a kid and layman coming in to WW2 games (mostly just pew pewing) I had a vague sense of what a Churchill was, but it was years before I discovered the Cromwell. For the uninitiated who want to play this game, Churchill would, to me make more sense.

Also, are we in agreement that the earlier models of  the Churchill were the prettiest?

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[willz]

Russell Phillips wrote:

Thomaston wrote:

<a class=”bbp-user-mention bbp-user-id-450″ title=”

@willz” href=”https://www.thewargameswebsite.com/forums/users/willz/”&gt; @willz I like that idea, especially because I like light tanks the most. If I went with Vickers Mk VIc it’ll be going against T60/70, M3/M5 PzII or Pz 38(t), but there aren’t any German late war light tank?

I’m not certain, but wasn’t the Panzer II L (AKA Luchs) in use as a reconnaissance vehicle up to the end of the war?

Yep that’s correct.

[Mike Headden]

I put the PzII Lynx in the same category as the Hetzer – cute but impractical

The Lynx because it’s over-engineered for a recon vehicle and under-armoured and under-gunned for a late war tank. Hetzer because it’s a well armoured, well armed box you can’t see out of.

Aesthetically I have a great fondness for light tanks but for actual combat, if I’m going to use a tank for recon, I want to emulate the Russians and use a T34-76 🙂

There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

[General Slade]

For me, the Bren Gun Carrier (or Universal Carrier if you insist) is the iconic British vehicle of WWII.  It’s not exactly a tank but they have got them in the Tank Museum and if it’s good enough for them . . .

[Thomaston]

Damn it! You all are making me stray form my objective.

First the Vickers Mk VI, Luch and now Bren carrier.
I really want to go for WWII fought in tanketts now. Problem getting equivalents for US and German.

I’m 60/40 between Cromwell vs Churchill. Originally I was thinking a cruiser tank for Brits but cfound out they’re not very uniform in looks. Churchill is quite a bit bigger than the others.

Tired is enough.

[willz]

• General Slade wrote:

  For me, the Bren Gun Carrier (or Universal Carrier if you insist) is the iconic British vehicle of WWII. It’s not exactly a tank but they have got them in the Tank Museum and if it’s good enough for them . . .

Iconic understated fire power, mind you the Germans up-gunned them.

[willz]

Thomaston wrote:

Damn it! You all are making me stray form my objective.

It’s a pleasure to be of some help and provide a fellow gamer with an overload of wargaming trivia😃.

[Thomaston]

I googled “German Bren Carrier”
This is officially my favorite tank of WWII.

Tired is enough.

[willz]

Thomaston wrote:

I googled “German Bren Carrier” This is officially my favorite tank of WWII.

Cool I have not seen this version, good find

[MartinR]

I think four or possibly twelve of those Bren SP guns were made. Used by one German Infantry Division in Russia. I’d have to look at some books to find the exact number.

 

 

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

[Mike Headden]

If that’s the 10.5cm leFH-16 auf Geschutzwagen auf Fahrgestell Mk VI 736(e) I thought they were built on the Vickers MkVI chassis rather than the bren carrier?

I’m more at home on the Eastern Front with the Russian versions of German vehicles so may well be wrong.

Talking of which, anyone know of a 1:150 scale model of the Russian SG-122?

There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

[Thomaston]

@Mike Headden
You’re right, its based on the Mk VI.
No idea about the Pz III conversion, I’m a WWII tank noob. From the stress on the front suspension though those guns must be real heavy.

On the other hand I found a tankette for the US, Marmon-Herrington CTLS.

Tired is enough.

[Etranger]

Thomaston wrote:

I googled “German Bren Carrier” This is officially my favorite tank of WWII.

Major Becker’s first conversion, using the chassis of the Mark VI light tank (not a carrier) , to produce a battery of 12 SP 105 mm howitzers for his artillery regiment, part of the 227th Infantry division. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10.5_cm_leFH_16_Gesch%C3%BCtzwagen_Mk_VI_736_(e)

[Etranger]

Thomaston wrote:

@Mike Headden You’re right, its based on the Mk VI. No idea about the Pz III conversion, I’m a WWII tank noob. From the stress on the front suspension though those guns must be real heavy. On the other hand I found a tankette for the US, Marmon-Herrington CTLS.

The MH came in 2 versions, with R or L handed turrets…

 

[Thomaston]

Etranger wrote:

<p style=”font-size: 16px !important; line-height: 20px !important;”>The MH came in 2 versions, with R or L handed turrets…

<p style=”font-size: 16px !important;”>

I didn’t know the lef and right turret thing. I saw something like a CTML? With a 37mm center turret?

I can see doing a little game were every tank is a variant of the universal carrier or Mk VI.

Tired is enough.

[Jim Webster]

We did an early Western Desert game, based on a real action, where supporting the infantry were light tanks, tankettes and armoured cars.
And the armoured cars were the real killers 🙂

https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

[Not Connard Sage]

The question is ‘most common tank’, not ‘my favourite tank’, or ‘my favourite thing with tracks’*/***.

It must be the Sherman by a wide margin.

*I mean, we aren’t journalists**. One daily printed a photo of a military bulldozer and called it a ‘tank’ 🙂

**If any of you are journalists, I’m so sorry. It must be dreadful.

***We aren’t politicians**** either, so let’s try to answer the question that was asked eh?

****If any of you are politicians, please find a tall building…

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Guy Farrish]

Been drinking the Plovdiv Cooperative Full Bodied Brake Fluid again have we sir?

(I too was wondering how an SPG got to be a tank, but there you go).

[Mike]

Not Connard Sage wrote:

The question is ‘most common tank’, not ‘my favourite tank’, or ‘my favourite thing with tracks’*/***.

Yes, but:

“If you had to distill WWII down, say for a board game like Risk, what would be the tank to represent Btisish force?”

So that is a different question no?

[Not Connard Sage]

Mike wrote:

Not Connard Sage wrote:

The question is ‘most common tank’, not ‘my favourite tank’, or ‘my favourite thing with tracks’*/***.

Yes, but: “If you had to distill WWII down, say for a board game like Risk, what would be the tank to represent Btisish force?” So that is a different question no?

Yes it is, but that wasn’t the question that was asked in the thread title 😉

Guy Farrish wrote:

Been drinking the Plovdiv Cooperative Full Bodied Brake Fluid again have we sir? (I too was wondering how an SPG got to be a tank, but there you go).

See above 😉

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Not Connard Sage]

If the question had been ‘most iconic British tank of WWII?’ the answer would of course have been the Churchill.

In service from 1941, until the end of the war and beyond.

Everybody happy? 🙂

 

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Mike Headden]

@ Not Connard Sage – I don’t think you understand how the Internet works 🙂

A question is posed – what the question is is entirely irrelevant.

This leads the internet hive mind to run off in a dozen different directions.

This continues until two polar opposite beliefs have been established.

Two cliques form prepared to die on the tiny hill of their preferred option.

They provide increasingly arcane arguments – think “angels dancing on pin-heads.”

This continues until either both sides collapse in exhaustion or a mod locks the thread in frustration.

Also, the question was “Most common British WWII tank?” I’d argue the Sherman is an American tank in British Service and that therefore the Churchill, in it’s various incarnations, is the answer.

I am neither a journalist nor a politician but I loves me a good argument. After all, how do you know what you truly believe if no-one tests your assumptions!

🙂 🙂 🙂

 

There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

[Guy Farrish]

Mike Headden wrote:

This continues until two polar opposite beliefs have been established. Two cliques form prepared to die on the tiny hill of their preferred option.

Two!

What kind of crazy Utopian paradise do you live in?

[Not Connard Sage]

LOL!

Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.

[Thomaston]

Yeah, ‘iconic’ is probably the better word to use there. My excuse is I’m weird!
The idea behind the wuestion was what was the most commonly seen British tank in all theater. Like in the original post I’m looking for something to represent each nation.

Tired is enough.

[General Slade]

Maybe we should decide how we are going to define ‘tank’ and work backwards (or forwards) from there?

[Author]

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