Home Forums Medieval Name of this Flag/Banner?

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  • #144023
    Balin Shortstuff
    Participant

    Hangs in the NYC Metropolitan Museum of Art, wondering what noble or city/province it belongs to.  Thanks

    #144026
    Andrew BeasleyAndrew Beasley
    Participant

    If in doubt ask Sheldon and Amy…

    Or it’s real life equivalent https://youtu.be/0CyR1T7Q1MY

    I would be surprised if that’s real (but happy to be wrong) as the vert lion rampant looks like it is facing the wrong way and really does not contrast to the per pale (half) field (background) of sable (black).

    Odly, its close to Robert VIII Bertrand de Bricquebec who had a solid Or (yellow / gold) field but I do not think it matches the needs of http://heraldry.sca.org/

     

    #144027
    KitfoxKitfox
    Participant

    Sorry, posted in error

    Death to all fanatics!

    #144031
    Balin Shortstuff
    Participant

    I would assume it’s real since it is in the NYC Metropolitan Museum of Art, in their medieval armor display.

     

    #144034
    Guy FarrishGuy Farrish
    Participant

    I wonder if it may be a rendering of this:

     

    ‘GALLERON of Galowey is Malory’s form of Chrétien’s Galerantis li Galois (i.e. the Welshman) who appears in the armorial lists as Galle¬gantin, Galegantn or Galentin le Galloys or Galoys, and Gualeguantin of Wales: Per pale or and sable, a lion rampant vert armed and langued gules. In other romances, Galegantins, Galeguinant or Galys Gwynans (and other forms) is seneschal to Galahalt and brother of Ywain les Avoutres (q.v.).’

    This from a Heraldry Society article here talking about the imagined arms of Arthurian characters compiled by a French author contemporaneous to Mallory’s Morte d’Arthur but presumably based on Chretien de Troyes’ version.

     

    This is a common rendition:

    So made up – yes – but a medieval ‘made up’

    Of course it is facing the ‘wrong way’ but maybe because it is a single cloth and so the obverse would be the ‘right way’?

    Or it may be someone else entirely!

    #144056
    Tony Hughes
    Participant

    It is probably facing the wrong way because someone slid it onto the pole from the wrong end !

    It often seems to happen with flags hung from an horizontal pole and not spotted because relatively few people know the conventions of heraldic display.

     

     

    #144067
    Mr. Average
    Participant

    Gallery 371! I know it well. I was told once that all those banners are supposedly for the Knights of the Round Table, which tracks with the previous post.

    #144094
    Andrew BeasleyAndrew Beasley
    Participant

    I would assume it’s real since it is in the NYC Metropolitan Museum of Art, in their medieval armor display.

    If it has a description plaque or article label (even if way way above head height) then it’s part of the display.  If it does not then its decoration to help set the scene 🙂

    Drives archivists / cataloguers mad – the local ones wish the museums would have labels that say ‘decoration’ to help…

    #144098
    Guy FarrishGuy Farrish
    Participant

    Having had a quick shuftie at a few pics and videos of gallery 371 (thanks Mr Average) they do appear to be the Arthurian banners. If you have a look you will see :

    Kay the Seneschal ( foster-brother of King Arthur — Kaeux, Keux or Kuex le seneschal: Azure, two keys erect wards upwards and outwards argent)

    Brandiles ( Brandelis de Vaulxsur, Brandelix des vaulx sur, Brandeliz de Vaulseur: Gules three swords erect in fess argent hilted and pommelled azure.)

    Bedivere ( brother of Lucan  — Bedovyer, Bedoyer or Bedomer le conestable; Baudoir the Constable: Or, a gonfanon of three points gules. )

    Ban (King of Benwick, son of King Launcelot, brother of King Bors and father of Launcelot du Lac and Ector de Maris (q.v.) — Le Roy Ban de Benoic: Argent, three bendlets gules.)

    Gawaine (eldest son of King Lott  — Gauvain dorcanie, Gawyn dorcadie: Purpure, a two-headed eagle displayed or, beaked and membered azure.)

    I think Sagramore is there as well but the molets are eight sided whereas the blazon has them 5.

    There are a couple of others I can’t identify yet and I can’t see Arthur’s banner.

    Nice collection of armour.

     

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