Home Forums Ancients New 2mm Ancients Project at SteelonSand

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  • #173126
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Hello All, enthused by the recent release of Mark Backhouse’s Strength and Honour rules, as well as the proliferation of new 2mm miniatures for sale, I’ve dusted off the old Blog for some new postings.

    It’s been (gulp) nine years since I was last writing there regularly, and a lot has happened since then, so thought I’d bring myself bang up to date whilst working on some Second Punic War armies constructed with Antonine Miniatures from Warbases in the UK.

    I’ve done a basic review of the Ancients range, as well as worked through my thoughts on painting and basing using some very simple techniques !

    Rulesets for smaller scale miniatures have historically fairly sparse on the ground, (I cut my teeth of Horse Foot and Guns, and 2×2 Napoleonics), so it is great to see Strength and Honour developed with exactly the tiniest of troops in mind – very excited to see how it goes.

    So, if grains of rice gaming (groan !) floats your boat, feel free to pop on over and have a look:

    http://steelonsand.blogspot.com/search/label/2mm%20Strength%20and%20Honour

     

     

     

    #173128
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    Very nice indeed.

    You are certainly getting on faster than I am with your Strength and Honour project.

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

    #173130
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Cheers Mike, I think I had a lot of pent-up energy having not really done much wargaming-related stuff in a number of years !

    I did sort of shoot myself in the foot by subbing in mostly Irregular Miniatures’ 2mm for the Roman army – their single blocks were of course more work than the all-in-one units by Antonine, but my simplistic approach to painting certainly helped – cheating with the paint pens instead of using brushes ! – sacrilege I know, but worth a try if you’re not progressing as fast as you might like…..

    #173131
    Andrew Beasley
    Participant

    Nice to see the blog back up and running. Was surprised it’s been so long!

    Has the quality of the Irregular blocks gotten any better – I keep hoping for a remake but did not see one last year…

     

    #173132
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    They are still the same Andrew …. but given the suggested paint style for Strength and Honour is somewhere between Impressionism and Pointilism I don’t think that will be a problem 🙂

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

    #173133
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Hi Andrew, – yes, where did the time go ? – regular posting petered out in 2013…… and an active commitment to the hobby not long after – I moved cities and boxed everything up, to languish in the garage, unsorted…and so most of it remains – just regained a bit of Mojo in recent months….

    Not that my self imposed sabbatical stopped me buying stuff, of course – the Lead Mountain increased exponentially with loads squirrelled away for future use – just think it is about time I started making inroads again, before it begins to become too big a mountain to climb…..

    As Mike mentioned, the older Irregular Miniatures stuff is very much as it was, with some of the moulds maybe becoming a bit tired – I’ve had a few pieces that were quite blobby and/or with undercast parts, etc, but the more recently added codes are much crisper, and the newest scenic items sculpted by Geoff Addison are really great – worth a look !

     

    #173141
    ian pillay
    Participant

    Welcome back and what a cracking project!

    Tally-Ho! Check out my blog at…..
    http://steelcitywargaming.wordpress.com/

    #173142
    MartinR
    Participant

    Lovely job, very nice indeed.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #173143
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Thanks guys, it’s good to be getting back into the swing of things, and with the ‘broad-brush’ approach to painting these up, it’s been a relatively easy way to get back into the habit…. Since I was working on projects regularly, so many new things have come on line – paint triads, contrast paints etc, etc – so a lot of challenges to come in catching up and being able to produce stuff that measures up with everyone else’s output – I guess I was staying in my comfort zone for now with the 2mm !

    #173188
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    Glad to see you are posting again! Also, really nice to see your take on this range, which tempts me.

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #173190
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Hi Thaddeus, good to hear from you ! – my advice is to give in to temptation….. (evil grin)…… it’s a very easy synch into the Ancients period without much fuss or expense – whether you went with Strength and Honour or not – there are also a lot of 3d printed options for miniatures coming on line as well – I’m going to post soon about some internet resources that I’ve been using as inspiration…..  lots of ‘ooh shiny’ (can resin/plastic be shiny ? Hmmmm) new toys !

    #173206
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Yikes, you inspired me so much with my 6mm back in the day, dare I read what the blog, will it send me off down another 5 year business venture….

    #173208
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Cheers Mike, you’re very welcome to fall under the spell of 2mm….. I’m quite happy to bear the responsibility for any cross contamination!
    Mind you we’re all getting older, so maybe larger scales are the way to go….. I certainly made use of an optivisor/magnification on this project !

    #173211
    Tony S
    Participant

    I’ve been wrestling with which 2mm to get, so your post is quite appreciated.  Although I like the Australian MDF figures (well I admit it’s really the pike phalanxes that I’m eyeballing) they’re a trifle dear on the credit card.  The Antonine look quite good, and I really, really like the massive barbarian warband horde, but I don’t think I like the way the components of that mass leave large gaps in between.

    I’m leaning strongly towards Irregular, but to do those large 120mm stands justice, I am afraid I’ll need an awful lot.  I think Irregular’s 2mm are roughly 15mm frontage?  Although as you mention, it is a grid based system, so perhaps 75mm stands will be ok.  (And then they will be ideal for Aurelian).

    Oh, decisions, decisions.   Still, seeing your efforts are grist for my mental mill, and quite inspiring!

    #173215
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Thanks Tony, glad I could get your brain box working in the right direction !  🙂

    My next post on the Blog will draw together a lot of links on the subject, including the Australian ‘wooden’ minis you mention – I agree that the big draw is how the Phalanx can be depicted  – I love the idea of seeing the Sarissa at different angles in the ranks, presenting a hedgehog of spear points- would be very cool !

    I agree about the Irregular strips – they are on the small side, so you need a heck of a lot to get the best impact – quite an undertaking – particularly as they tend to need a lot of prep – I’ve filed my fingers to the bone flattening off the venting remnants on those bases !

    The good thing is that with the buzz around Strength and Honour, hopefully our choices should get better with time…..

    #173216
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    Tony, I’m using Irregular Miniatures 2mm for my Roman army. 30 2-rank strips and something as a command stand (another strip of infantry or a couple of guys on horses) on an 80mm x 40mm MDF base will make up my Legions and will cost approx £3.50 so about the same as the Antonine units.

    Plan is two rows, 3 blocks deep and 5 blocks wide with a gap between them for the command. That’ll be around 600 individuals, so impressive enough for my tastes.

    My terrain mat will have 50mm squares so 80×40 will work fine, I reckon.

    I have the Antonine wagon laager and Roman camp. Couldn’t resist, given I was buying my bases from Warbases. Plus the IM Roman camp and buildings and a potential town wall and barbarian village on order from Brigade. They do say fools rush in. 🙂

    There’s a website from Tiny Tin Troops (http://www.tinytintroops.co.uk/Res/2mm/2mm_blocks.htm) that gives dimensions for the IM 2mm minis. If you want to plan.

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

    #173217
    Tony S
    Participant

    I should have mentioned that I did try to make some 2mm blocks, like the author Mark Backhouse did.  Not terribly impressive; bloody awful might be a better description.  I might try again, as I see how to improve it if I try another.

    The worst part were the heads.  I just painted a lot of silver dots to represent helmets, with a few red for plumes.  Horrendous.   But I was rather impressed with how effective a skin tone face blob, and a white shields stripe at the front (they were supposedly theurophoroi) were.

     

    #173218
    Tony S
    Participant

    I just saw your post Mike.  I think I was typing while you were posting.  Very helpful link!    I shall have to do some back-of-the-envelope calculations tonight.

    I have to agree with you about the Warbases camps.  I have to offer more bases anyway, and I usually order from them, so I suspect I shall end up with some lead as well as MDF!

    #173221
    Jim Webster
    Participant

    Me, I was drawn to the rules by the visuals, but know in my heart of hearts I would struggle to achieve the visuals 🙁

    https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

    #173222
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Next post with lots of links for inspiration is up on the Blog:

    http://steelonsand.blogspot.com/search/label/2mm%20Strength%20and%20Honour?m=0

    Go for it Jim – the beauty of 2mm is that it doesn’t take much time or investment to have a bash !

    #173223
    MartinR
    Participant

    But I was rather impressed with how effective a skin tone face blob, and a white shields stripe at the front (they were supposedly theurophoroi) were.

    Ive got a lot of 2mm stuff and I’d always recommend blobbing faces on the front rank. Although they are tiny, it seems to make the figures come alive.

    I even managed hands on the modern infantry and weapons teams, but the elements are much smaller.

    I usually just do small bases with a couple of strips, and then assemble the strips onto bigger sabot bases to mix and match element types.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #173271
    Jim Webster
    Participant

    Next post with lots of links for inspiration is up on the Blog: http://steelonsand.blogspot.com/search/label/2mm%20Strength%20and%20Honour?m=0 Go for it Jim – the beauty of 2mm is that it doesn’t take much time or investment to have a bash !

     

    I confess to being tempted. I did 2mm Roman v Carthaginian for DBA with Irregular blocks thirty or more years ago 🙂
    I have two small ECW armies for the same sort of rules

    https://jimssfnovelsandwargamerules.wordpress.com/

    #173274
    Thaddeus Blanchette
    Participant

    SoS, I remember the mid aughties when we were about the only people on the intertubez experimenting with picoscales and now LOOK at all the options!

    I must admit, the new MDF armies ARE very tempting and I may get some myself.

    Right now, however, I have a 3mm ancient and fantasy collection to finish!

    Still, I am very interested on your take on these rules. Are they worth it?

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #173275
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    Say, could these rules also be used for Dark Age gaming, such as the various Saxon kingdoms jabbing at each other?  Maybe a bit o’ King Arthur…

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #173278
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    @DSG I’d say absolutely. Strength and Honour covers various flavours of warband, skirmishers and cavalry which would cover most Dark Age troop types, I think.

    King Arthur and his knights would be Cavalry with the Cataphract characteristic and possibly one or more of Battle Trained, Drilled, Heroic and Stubborn

    Obviously you’d need to make up your own army lists but the basic mechanisms should still work.

    Battles tend to be smaller so the same bases could be even closer to 1:1 scale.

    I’ve been considering a possible Sumerian variant myself.

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

    #173279
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    Thanks Mike.  Guess I might have yet another project in my future.

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #173280
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    @DSG: I think Mark Backhouse intends to expand the range of the rules in coming iterations, bringing it forward at least into the later Roman period ? – as Mike says, see no reason why it couldn’t cover a Dark Age Arthur, or similar Fantasy/Quasi-Historical/Imagination battles…..

    I’m yet to play a proper game myself, but oh, my the Rulebook is mighty pretty ! – who doesn’t like a bit of eye candy….

    @ Jim: given your pedigree with 2mm, there really is no excuse for not giving some more a try !  😉

    @Thaddeus: Yes, I’m trying to remember how sparse things were small-scale wise back in the day in terms of both internet exposure and visibility in the real world – seems like a different era now – are we living through a Tiny Troops Golden Age…?….. just as my eye-sight is beginning to give out!

    There’s a handy set of videos on Youtube courtesy of those Lardy types (Their word, not mine) with a run-through of the rules:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/toofatlardies/featured

     

    #173285
    ian pillay
    Participant

    Randomly found this website that may or may not be of use to you

    https://projectwargaming.com/

    I am not starting a new project…… honest gov 😆

    Tally-Ho! Check out my blog at…..
    http://steelcitywargaming.wordpress.com/

    #173288
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Cheers Ian, more grist to the mill – so many goodies to contemplate!

    #173547
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Another update posted on the 2mm Strength and Honour project – beginning to look at doing some buildings and scenery:

    http://steelonsand.blogspot.com/2022/05/2mm-strength-and-honour-buildings.html

    Baby steps at first – but hopefully more to come as I re-discover my Mojo !

    #173549
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    Looking good!

    I think you’ve done a good job on the buildings …. and I may have to get some poplars from Brigade now!

    I’m planning to put together a walled town at some point, using their modular castle bits and pieces as well as more open built-up areas.

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

    #173552
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Thanks Mike – glad you like them so far – it used to be the case that there were only really the undersized ‘area’ items from Irregular and a small range from Rod Langton that would suit 2mm, but now with Brigade’s frequently expanding output we are spoilt for choice – as you intimate, putting together a walled town should be no problem !

    #173928
    Mark Backhouse
    Participant

    Hi all,

    It sounds like you are all having lots of fun with these which is very pleasing. I’m planning looking at earlier Rome and the Successors eta next in a supplement, but I might do some magazine articles to convert them to Arthurian or Medieval battles at some point. A bit of creativity and I’m sure they’d work.

    I’m very much enjoying the SteelonSand blog posts and love the Roman town. The terrain in 2mm has to be one of the most fun parts. I hope you get a few games in though soon, as I think you’ll enjoy the games as much as modelling the figures and terrain.

    #173929
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Good to hear from you, Mark, nice of you to drop by – can’t thank you enough for all the inspiration Strength and Honour has provided – will be great to see your take on the earlier Romans and Successors – I’m itching to deploy some phalanxes !

    #173991
    Cyrus
    Participant

    That’s great news and looking forward to seeing more SteelonSand 2mm posts!

    #173992
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Cheers Cyrus – definitely more to come in the tiniest of scales, don’t worry – as long as my eyesight holds out……. 😉

    I’m only holding back on the phalanxes because I’d really like to get my hands on some of the up-and-coming 3D printed types – my Lead Mountain contains dozens of the metal ones from Irregular Miniatures already, but they are a bit on the underwhelming side….. only time will tell as to which I end up deploying….. (patience  isn’t one of my virtues…..)

    #174048
    Mark Backhouse
    Participant

    Paul at Sabotaged3D can resin print up the Project Wargames phalanxes if you purchase the files and has been doing this for a number of customers.

    https://www.sabotag3d.com/

     

    I find them incredible but the detail is quite daunting!

    I’ve been working on 2mm buildings from Brigade Models to use in my 2nd Bedriacum game at Joy of Six which are really satisfying and quick to do. It’s in Sheffield on Sunday July 3rd.  I hope to see some of you there!

    #174062
    Steelonsand
    Participant

    Thanks for the tip, Mark – may just have to follow up on that !

    Bedriacum, eh ? – great stuff – what’s not to like – Roman on Roman action, and Gladiators to boot – sounds great.

    #174064
    Mike Headden
    Participant

    I’m hoping to get down to Sheffield for Joy of Six and will definitely be interested in Bedriacum if I make it.

    Currently working on a small farm using, among other things, some Brigade buildings. Up next a 150mm square Roman town with more of their buildings.

    Growing old is mandatory, growing up is entirely optional!

    #174071
    Mark Backhouse
    Participant

    I’m afraid it was 1st Bedriacum with the gladiators, but 2nd Bedriacum was still pretty colourful with the start of it being fought at nighttime!
    Hope to see you there Mike and any others who might be dropping in. It’s a participation game so I hope a few people will join in during the day. Next up I’ll be making a few miles of vineyards and wheat fields!

    We are also running a smaller 6mm game participation game based on Nicopolis so people can grasp the basics.

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