Home › Forums › Ambush Alley Games › Force on Force › Newbie QUICK START RULES questions
- This topic has 8 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 3 months, 1 week ago by maggico.
26/02/2023 at 22:45 #183726Steve DParticipant
Trying to get my usual opponents to do miniatures instead of board games. These rules seem pretty straight forward and using different dice to model troop quality is a cool feature. The quick start rules are pretty good, but I do have some questions about them.
1. At top of the rules, it says the map is 3×3 but 2×2 at the top of the map, what should I use?
2. Rules states Taliban has 3 teams, scenario lists 4, what should I use?
3. Map says US starts off-board, how can Taliban fire at them as the first action on turn 1. Should US set up in first x inches of the board edge? If so, what is a good value of x?
4. How far into the woods can you see? If the US goes up the right flank, how close can they get before Taliban Team 3 sees them?
5. Since the US shoots with D8, any hit with a 7 or 8 cannot be saved by the Taliban with their D6, correct?
6. If a non-initiative team fails its interrupt role, can it still shoot after the initiative unit if it is fired upon?
7. If a non-initiative team fails its interrupt role, it can no longer try to interrupt again that turn, but if it was their first attempt that failed and it did nothing else, could it be activated during the non-initiative player’s phase at the end of the turn?
8. Reading the forum, there seemed to be an issue with morale checks with an even number of figures. Looking at the math, I see why. Has anybody suggested a fix?
Steve27/02/2023 at 02:18 #183728madmanParticipant
My background is with Ambush Alley as opposed to Force on Force and never played these quick start rules but they look like a good intro to the system so here is my take.
1. Make it 2 x 2 for this game. Only one map so I assume both scenarios use the same locale.
2. In keeping with the above use what the scenario says as opposed to the rules.
3. Have the Taliban use overwatch or interruptions as the USMC units move. Attack as they enter the game area.
4. 6″ in, which pretty much negates the line of sight block so you could either reduce it to say 3″ or say units can be seen in woods and see out but not through.
5. Correct. You will find the differential dice size is a big deficit for the lower Troop Quality side. Play as is for now and if you want to go deeper into FoF or Ambush Alley then adding civilians who can be randomly prone to going with one side or the other (and providing forces) or just messing up lines of sight or lines of fire helps balance scenarios.
6. If it rolls less than 4 no it is done. If it rolls greater than a 4 but loses it can fire after with what is left.
7. If the non-initiative unit rolls less than 4 it is done for the turn. Otherwise it can activate but again with surviving forces.
8. Don’t know.
I haven’t played AA for a little while but this is as I remember and quick look up to the updated Next War draft rules. If I am wrong I hope others will chime in. A very good system which has been in limbo for a while (needing issues addressed) and is now being re-visited. I have just been doing more 6mm and board wargames lately. I hope this helps.27/02/2023 at 12:54 #183735
I’m not familiar with the quick start rules, or, scenario you speak of, Steve but will have a crack at answering your query too. You may find the game is not quite as straight forward as it first appears !
1. I think the size of map depends on the scale of kit you wish to use but at 15-20mm a 2×2 will suffice.
2. Go with the scenario for numbers of teams.
3. Once you grasp the concept of how the game is played the deployment will make more sense. In this case the US forces will have the initiative, the player will declare their first teams action which is likely move onto the table at a certain speed and engage a nominated Taliban team. The Taliban player can then opt to interrupt the US team as it moves into view, with an action of it’s own. Once resolved the next US team is activated and so on. Once all US teams have been activated any Talib teams that haven’t reacted may then carry out their turn.
4. The scenario should tell you how thick the woods are – Dense, Average, Light. Also there’s Heavy Foliage. You can only see 1″ into dense woods, 3″ into Average, anywhere in Light but only units at the edge of Heavy foliage. There are also movement penalties.
5. You’re not wrong – the benefit of training & fire control !
6. YES. If that’s the unit under attack it can return fire if able after the attacker’s shooting is resolved. ie it’s still alive, passed morale if required, hasn’t fired yet.
8. In the New War version only 1 die is rolled, though this too is already under review !
I prefer to play it as is, hang the math !
Hope this helps in some way, always about to field questions. The new version is under a full review now and may become a more polished version of what already exists.28/02/2023 at 01:08 #183759madmanParticipant
3. In this scenario they specify the Taliban has initiative in the first turn.
4. I didn’t see anything in the quick start rules so what I said was taken from the new next war rules which didn’t (unless later in the pdf) differentiate but gave a flat 6″.28/02/2023 at 02:21 #183760Steve DParticipant
Papasan and Madman
Thanks for the quick replies. I got enough to try the game now. Printed the map and will be using counters from my Fire Power board game. Hope I can convince these guys that miniatures are way better than playing ASL. I am tired of 6-8 hour games where 2 of those hours are spent checking the rules (even after 30+ years of playing). I have 30+ year old 20mm NVA figures that I would like to paint and use.
Hopefully, this quick start game captures the overall flow of the game. I know that there are more terrain rules, weapon rules, and vehicle rules to come, but that doesn’t bother me as long as the flow is similar.
FWIW, I looked at the moral rules. Here are the percent chance of passing a Morale roll using D10s and three different options. Each option has you roll an extra die ONLY IF there is a tie when rolling an even number of die (pass on 4+ like the rest of the game). Looks like if you roll a D8 (pass on 4+) as a tie breaker, there is a better chance of passing the morale check the more figures you have, which seems to make sense to me and seems much better than the original rule. Not sure if any one else cares, but I will probably play this way.
No of Figures. D10s. D10s + D6. D10s + D8. D10s + D10
1 70 70 70 70
2 91 70 75 78
3 78 78 78 78
4 92 78 82 84
5 84 84 84 84
6 93 84 86 87
7 87 87 87 87
Steve28/02/2023 at 12:55 #183776
Papasan 3. In this scenario they specify the Taliban has initiative in the first turn. 4. I didn’t see anything in the quick start rules so what I said was taken from the new next war rules which didn’t (unless later in the pdf) differentiate but gave a flat 6″.
3. Sounds like they really messed up this scenario ! I can only suggest you reverse the positions, have the US start on table and the Taliban start off table moving on with the initiative, that or start the US behind the first pieces of cover from their starting edge? Not being familiar with the scenario it’s difficult know what’s best.
4. Didn’t see anything about woods in Next War but cover was mentioned. As it’s not specified in the scenario you can pick what you think suits best, I’d suggest Average where you can see 3″ into, or, within the woods.
Go with your morale rule if it works for you, the nice thing is, as Shawn says; it’s your game ! 😉28/02/2023 at 14:04 #183777maggicoParticipant
I saw the scenario. Effectively is a bit weird. Scenario rules stated that in the first turn the initiative is Taliban, then roll for initiative normally. It’s weird because Talibans have D6 for training and rules states that troops with Quality D6 don’t have the initiative. Don’y know if it’s a bug in the scenario rules. I think the best is to have initiative for the regulars for all the game.28/02/2023 at 16:16 #183781
Might have found it, is it ‘Lost & Found’ ?
I’d go with starting the US behind the first pieces of cover from their starting edge, so put at least one fireteam behind the wall, the rest can be in the woods. This will give Talib.1 something to shoot at as instructed by the scenario, maybe as the draw to pull the US forces in. Talib 2 can move to cover, Talib.3 & 4 can stay put as Hidden to await the chance to Ambush the US as they advance. The US can do their thing after the Talib have finished.
Woods just says it blocks line of sight but nothing about depth it can be seen into, so you can do what you think works/looks best with this.
PS. Thanks for highlighting this scenario gap for me and don’t get too far into Next War yet, it’s all about to change again !28/02/2023 at 20:56 #183791maggicoParticipant
Yeah, is Lost and Found.
Don’t worry about Next War. I, alas not too much as I wish, play FoF, and I’m fine with it.
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