Home Forums WWII Normandy/Arnhem Gallantry Awards…

This topic contains 15 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Whirlwind Whirlwind 2 months ago.

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #99121
    Harry Faversham
    Harry Faversham
    Participant

    The British 1st Airborne Division were awarded the Victoria Cross four times for the epic, yet failed, stand at Arnhem.
    In the Normandy campaign the 6th Airborne Division got none. This, in spite of taking, and holding both the Pegasus and Horsa bridges over the Orne. Also assaulting and capturing the Merville Battery with only 150 of the over 600 soldiers allocated the task. The 6th A/B Div. then spent a protracted period successfully defending the flank of the Normandy invasion beaches…
    Echoes of the ‘Rorke’s Drift/ Isandlwana’ syndrome in the award of Britain’s highest gallantry award here, or wot?

     

    "Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

    "I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

    #99124

    Thomaston
    Participant

    Winning isn’t everything as long as you get medals out of it. You could call it propaganda or damage control, cheapest way to boost morale in the face of defeat. Alternatively there’s no need to boost morale in a victory.

    Life's too long.

    #99127
    Harry Faversham
    Harry Faversham
    Participant

    Yep, is that why we always dish them out more…

    when we’ve had us arses kicked!!!???

    "Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

    "I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

    #99344
    grizzlymc
    grizzlymc
    Participant

    Which of those 4 VCs do you think was OTT?

    #99348
    Not Connard Sage
    Not Connard Sage
    Participant

    The British 1st Airborne Division were awarded the Victoria Cross four times for the epic, yet failed, stand at Arnhem.

    Servicemen are awarded the VC, not the unit they serve in. Belittling the bravery of individuals is a bit f***ing shabby IMO. Especially when three of the four you’re pissing on were awarded posthumously. Shame on you.

    https://www.marketgarden.com/2010/UK/vc/vc1.html

    https://www.marketgarden.com/2010/UK/vc/vc2.html

    https://www.marketgarden.com/2010/UK/vc/vc3.html

    https://www.marketgarden.com/2010/UK/vc/vc4.html

     

     

     

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #99353
    Harry Faversham
    Harry Faversham
    Participant

     Whoa, steady on tiger! 

    I’m not belittling the VCs awarded for the stand at Arnhem. Are you aware there was more than a bit of bad blood between members of 1st and 6th Airborne at the time, about this very subject?

    "Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

    "I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

    #99391
    grizzlymc
    grizzlymc
    Participant

    Well, those who award VCs do not seek an equal distribution of them. If the four VCs at Arnhem can be justified then perhaps your thesis is that there are men in the 6th Div in Normandy who should have been awarded the VC. Whom, and why?

    #99392
    Whirlwind
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    The British 1st Airborne Division were awarded the Victoria Cross four times for the epic, yet failed, stand at Arnhem.

    The sort of things that VCs were typically awarded for generally seem more likely to occur in situations of defeat or extreme difficulty than in the course of ultimately successful operations.  Very properly, the success or otherwise of the actions seems not to have been of much relevance; only the extreme gallantry shown.

    Servicemen are awarded the VC, not the unit they serve in.

    For interest, when I read the Wikipedia entry, I discovered that up until the end of WW1 there were instances of the unit being given several awards to distribute amongst its members:

    “In the case of a gallant and daring act being performed by a squadron, ship’s company or a detached body of men (such as marines) in which all men are deemed equally brave and deserving of the Victoria Cross then a ballot is drawn. The officers select one officer, the NCOs select one individual and the private soldiers or seamen select two individuals. In all 46 awards have been awarded by ballot with 29 of the awards during the Indian Mutiny. Four further awards were granted to Q Battery, Royal Horse Artillery at Korn Spruit on 31 March 1900 during the Second Boer War. The final ballot awards for the army were the six awards to the Lancashire Fusiliers at W Beach during the landing at Gallipoli on 25 April 1915 although three of the awards were not gazetted until 1917. The final seven ballot awards were the only naval ballot awards with three awards to two Q-Ships in 1917 and four awards for the Zeebrugge Raid in 1918. The provision for awards by ballot is still included in the Victoria Cross warrant but there have been no further such awards since 1918.”

    I did not know that!

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #99412
    Harry Faversham
    Harry Faversham
    Participant

    There was a peculiar twist to VC awards to airmen in the first World War. At least three VCs were awarded, not for a single act of valour, but for long and meritorious service; to Captain Albert Ball and Majors Mannock and McCudden. If memory serves I believe Leonard Cheshire’s award was for the same kind of thing in the second?

    Getting back to Normandy/Arnhem, some years back I contacted the Airborne Forces Museum, for information as to any VC recommendations put forward for 6th Airborne in Normandy, I’ll try and search out the reply in my piles of junk/priceless artefacts!

    "Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

    "I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

    #99428
    Guy Farrish
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    I don’t know if it were a deliberate decision (everyone was brave on the day?) but there was only one VC awarded for the actions on D-Day, Stanley Hollis WO2 Green Howards on Gold Beach. So 6th airborne may have been overlooked, but so were lots of other people. As for the rest of the campaign – dunno, look forward to your junk sorting – sorry: in depth research!

    #99444
    Don Glewwe
    Don Glewwe
    Participant

    There was a peculiar twist to VC awards to airmen in the first World War. At least three VCs were awarded, not for a single act of valour, but for long and meritorious service; to Captain Albert Ball and Majors Mannock and McCudden.

    That may very well have been done as a sort-of admission of ‘oops!’ regarding the VC given to Bishop?

    http://www.glewwe-castle.com/brawl-factory/

    #99445
    Don Glewwe
    Don Glewwe
    Participant

    I don’t know if it were a deliberate decision (everyone was brave on the day?) but there was only one VC awarded for the actions on D-Day…

    That may be the key. since it is awarded for “most conspicuous bravery”.

    Hard to be ‘conspicuous’ on that day…

    http://www.glewwe-castle.com/brawl-factory/

    #99450
    grizzlymc
    grizzlymc
    Participant

    The D-Day fighting was relatively mild in the British sector. If the Brits had landed at Omaha with little armour, you might have seen a few VCs. And, am I not correct that the VC is not awarded for bravery, but for valour?

    #99451
    Harry Faversham
    Harry Faversham
    Participant

    I don’t know if it were a deliberate decision (everyone was brave on the day?) but there was only one VC awarded for the actions on D-Day, Stanley Hollis WO2 Green Howards on Gold Beach. So 6th airborne may have been overlooked, but so were lots of other people. As for the rest of the campaign – dunno, look forward to your junk sorting – sorry: in depth research!

    This is the thing I’m kind of banging on about. We get summat right (D-Day), for once, and there’s one act of conspicuous gallantry award. There was seven Victoria Crosses awarded in France/Belgium in 1940?

    "Wot did you do in the war Grandad?"

    "I was with Harry... At The Bridge!"

    #99459
    grizzlymc
    grizzlymc
    Participant

    The VC is not awarded for military success, that would be the DSO; it is awarded for valour.

    #99468
    Whirlwind
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    The VC is not awarded for military success, that would be the DSO; it is awarded for valour.

    The guy who got the VC along with Leonard Cheshire, mentioned above, is a pretty perfect exemplar of this.  His attempt to save his aircraft failed – he got the VC for the scarcely believable courage he showed in trying it.  Read the citation on the wiki entry.

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.