Home Forums Ambush Alley Games Force on Force Overmatch and vehicles

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    Avatar photothomas poulsen



    I have a few questions after a game we played last night.

    In what order is overwatch executed when multiple units react? It would be in the overwatch units’ interest to shot at the best reacting unit first, as it will gradually loose dice and there is also the chance that it will fail its TQ check and fall of overwatch. For the reacting units the interest is the same only the opposite way around. So who choses the order of fire?

    Some infantry fire vs vehicles questions: Do small arms fire against softskin vehicles still have minus 2 on the damage table? I hope so, otherwise softskin vehicles are really in trouble.

    Must weapons with an AT value use their AT separately or can it combine with the infantry unit? This would be a good option if you are firings at a softskin vehicle, where the infantry small arms can also do damage. Otherwise you have to spread your dice over to attacks, where the vehicles gets full defense dice against both attacks.




    Avatar photoBob Frapples

    Hey Thomas,

    Remember, non-initiative units cannot react to Overwatch fire.  If a unit on Overwatch is going to fire then that unit rolls its Reaction Test (with a +1 to the die roll) first.  If the test succeeds then the fire from the Overwatch unit is resolved first.  The unit that was shot at may choose to return fire and if not wiped out, Pinned, or Shaken, may complete its action.

    If the Overwatch unit fails its Reaction Test then the target unit completes is action before the Overwatch unit fires, assuming the target unit is still a valid target.

    If you have multiple units on Overwatch that are firing at the same non-initiative unit, then you can choose which Overwatch unit fires first.

    For infantry firing at soft skin vehicles, the -2 you are referring to only applies to Infantry Support Weapons without an AT value (SAW, M203, GPMG, etc.) firing at Light Class or higher vehicles.  Fire at soft skin vehicles is resolved in the same way as an attack against an infantry unit.  So a unit with a Support Weapon that does not have an AT value that is firing at a soft skin vehicle would use its full firepower and roll without penalty on the soft skin vehicle damage table.  Think of a soft skin vehicle as a Toyota pickup truck.  If you have a fire team with some M4’s, an M203, and a SAW firing at a Toyota, you are going to do some damage.

    For your last question, on page 87 it says that “Infantry firing AT weapons at vehicles only use the Firepower of their weapon against the vehicle”.  If you have a fire team equipped with an AT4 (AP:3, AT:3(H)) firing at a soft skin vehicle (1D6 defense), you have a much larger chance of destroying the vehicle than if you were using small arms.  With the AT4 you get a vehicle kill on a roll of 4 or greater on the damage table as opposed to 12 for small arms.  So adding small arms fire to an AT attack would just be adding insult to injury 😉

    Additionally, small arms fire has no effect against light vehicles and higher.

    I hope that answers all your questions.



    Avatar photoPapasan

    Hi Thomas,
    Looks like Bob has it covered.
    The objective of Overwatch is to interrupt the enemy whenever they are able to so are dealt with first unless their target only moves into their LoS after other opening reactions have occurred.
    The owner of the OW units declares which, if any, will react and who against if it’s a multiple unit situation. Usually start with the OW unit nearest the target as it’s easier to track.
    If, for instance, 3 OW units are selected to react and the first destroys the targeted unit the remaining 2 OW units are still counted as having reacted & lose the FP still, so how many react could be an important decision.
    Infantry fire vs vehicles:
    Full FP against soft skins;  1/2 FP (rounded down) against ‘up armoured’ soft skins from small arms and light non AT support. see table p86 for detail other weapons.
    I’d certainly use the AT separately against a vehicle as there’s a better chance of causing it serious/fatal damage than SA/Support weaps can.
    Don’t forget your team AT weapons can engage a vehicle whilst your Inf team are engaging other infantry without it being considered as ‘splitting fire’ (p39), so the inf could be engaging someone else if not used against the vehicle.

    Avatar photothomas poulsen

    Bob and Papasan thank you for your answers and sorry for not replying before.

    As for my overwatch question. The situation I was referring to, one overwatch unit is firing at multiple reacting units in order to disrupt their reactions. The overwatch unit will lose dice for each shot and there’s is a chance that it might fail its overwatch test, so the overwatch unit would like to fire at the best reacting unit first in order to maximize effect. My question was therefor: does the overwatch unit chose in what order to execute its overwatch or does the non-initiative player or does the overwatch unit fire at the closest enemy first? As I understand Papasan the overwatch units gets to choose.

    As for soft skin vehicles it clears it up. I do think however that up armored softskin vehicles like the French VBL or Mowag Eagle are a bit to weak when fired at with small arms. We might still give the -2 for small arms fire.




    Avatar photoPapasan

    Hi Thomas,
    if I’ve read this right you want to engage the most dangerous unit reacting to your unit first with your OW unit – you can do that.
    You announce your unit 1, covered by your OW unit ,will attack the enemy unit A.
    The enemy announces his units B & C will react with fire to that attack as well as his Unit A defending itself.
    You see his unit B is armed with some medium support weapon and announce your OW unit will engage them first followed by unit C and unit A.
    All you have to do then is win the reaction tests & roll high !

    I agree about the French VBL & Mowag Eagle, each are purpose built light armoured vehicles, so to me they’re not ‘up-armoured soft skins’ even if that’s what the books gives them; they’re made with STANAG 4569 level 1 & 2 armour respectively so should shrug off small arms fire without too much issue. You could simply use med & hvy  non AT inf support weapons against them with the -2 mod & forget the other small arms.
    To me ‘up-armoured soft skins’ should be soft skins with improvised or supplied add on armour kits to protect vital parts.

    I guess it was a way to intro a lighter armoured category ?

    Avatar photomaggico

    I agree about the overwatch.

    About VBL and similar vehicles, I think that these IMV are more light vehicles than up armored. Fo me an up armored vehicle is an armored SUV or limo, than an Eagle, VBL or Lince.

    Normally, for these IMV, I use the same statistics of APC, like M113.

    Avatar photoPapasan

    In a roundabout way I think you may have hit upon an answer there, maggico.
    Still use the softskin vehicle class damage table; still use the armour stats as given in the book but treat them as light class, not as Soft or up-armoured soft skin when shooting at them.
    This means small arms &  Light non-AT support weapons have no effect on them, only medium & Heavy non-AT support weapons at 1/2 FP (rounded down) with the -2 modifier to the die roll on the damage table.
    It might be a solution.?

    Avatar photomaggico

    Probably yes.

    We must assume that these vehicles are standard military machines, with STANAG specification. Not really something that an assault rifle can manage.

    The use of heavy weapons and the -2 roll to the table, can be a manageable solution for all these vehicles.

    Avatar photothomas poulsen

    I agre. We played then like light vehicles in all aspect last time, but maling then roll on the soft skin tabel seem like a good way to Mark then out from regular APCs. Thank for answers and all the good imput

    Avatar photoPapasan

    I agree. We played them like light vehicles in all aspects last time, but making them roll on the soft skin table seems like a good way to mark then out from regular APCs. Thank for answers and all the good input

    Thanks for the queries, Thomas, that’s what provokes the discussion, keeps the grey cells engaged and provokes responses we can all employ in our games. Keep ’em coming ! 😀

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