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  • #71102
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    What paints give nice coverage in one go?
    I am finding a lot of my current paints seem quite opaque and need a couple of coats, sometimes more.

    #71103
    Phil Dutré
    Participant

    I am finding a lot of my current paints seem quite opaque and need a couple of coats, sometimes more.

    The more opaque a paint is, the less coats you need, right? Or am I missing something?

    The coverage of a paint has more to do with colour than with brand, IMO. Yellows and some reds are hard to get right in one coat.

    Tiny Tin Men Blog: http://snv-ttm.blogspot.com/
    Wargaming Mechanics Blog: http://wargaming-mechanics.blogspot.com/

    #71105
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    The more opaque a paint is, the less coats you need, right? Or am I missing something?

     

    Nope.

    I am using the wrong word!
    Transparent is what I meant…

    😀

    #71106

    AB: you’re talking about acrylic model paints, right?

    Your problem might be that you haven’t mixed the paint correctly. The two components of the paint (pigment & polymer emulsion) easily separate & can need intensive stirring.  The Army Painter brand is very prone to this as is some Vallejo colours but both are worth the effort to stir correctly. A few shakes isn’t enough.

    This is one solution:

    Another is to simply put a ball bearing in the bottle which aids in the mixing process when shaken vigorously.

    donald

    #71109
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    I may try stirring as I shake a lot and have shakers wrist (that is what I am calling it anyway).
    Just odd that I have a few brands and one of them is no problem, but the other seems iffy.
    Things like yellow and what not I can understand, but having issues with medium browns and greens.
    Will buy some cocktail sticks and persevere.

    #71110
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    AB, I’ve noticed in a lot of your photos that you use Coat d’Arms paints. I’m hesitant to speak ill of Coat d’Arms, not least because I know Black Hat (the distributor) is a contributing member of this community, and a fair few hobbyists seem to be quite loyal to the brand, and I myself like the idea of Coat d’Arms as an endearingly old-timey alternative to the other brands. But to be perfectly honest, the Coat d’Arms paints I own tend to underperform compared to my other paints in regard to opacity/pigmentation. My best Coat d’Arms paints are adequate but only that, and my worst ones are even more transparent than the Citadel “layer” series of paints (which have been deliberately made to be transparent, as they’re meant to be used for highlighting only). Coat d’Arms Warlock Purple has got to be the worst paint I’ve ever used. I also have paints from Vallejo (Game Colour and Model Colour), Army Painter Warpaints, Privateer Press Formula P3, Reaper MSP, Scalecolor and Citadel (mainly of the Citadel “base” series of paints which are more pigmented than their “layer” ones). They all outperform Coat d’Arms in my experience.

    If in doubt, go with Vallejo. Trusty Vallejo. Army Painter Warpaints are also decent and seem to have become quite ubiquitous. I really like Privateer Press Formula P3 and Reaper MSP as well, but they don’t have all that big of a presence in the Europe/UK market (especially Reaper MSP, which seems to have built its success on an almost exclusively North American customer base). Scalecolor is a good new minor brand from a company called Scale75, and I think there’s a few other minor, ostensibly high-quality brands like it that I’ve never tried. I try not to rely on Citadel that much because they’ve “rebooted” their range too often for me to still trust them. Citadel paints are more expensive than their rival brands as well (if comparing prices, keep in mind that a Citadel pot only contains 12 ml whereas most other brands give you 17-18 ml per pot or bottle).

    If you want extreme opacity, some brands have an “extra pigmented” series of paints for that. On that front I mainly have experience with the Vallejo Game Colour Extra Opaques, and they’re great.

    Sorry, Black Hat! I still love you! 

    • This reply was modified 4 years ago by Rhoderic.
    #71128
    Norm S
    Participant

    Some individual colours are by nature described as transparent. Artists are used to this sort of thing and it can be helpful in building up glazes etc in their paintings and watercolourists find  them useful.

    In my Vallejo range, my Mid Blue tends towards the transparent, while my Prussian Blue is quite opaque.

    I have a droplet bottle that has 80% water and 20% flow improver – every time I conclude using a GW paint pot, I put in two drops of my mix in and shake, it seems to keep the paint nicer for longer. Every now and then, I do the messy task of going into my Vallejo bottles and doing the same thing.

    #71149
    General Slade
    Participant

    My favourite line of paints is called Miniature Paints and they are available from Ral Partha Europe.  The colours they have in stock tend to be a bit hit and miss, which is frustrating, and there doesn’t seem to be anyway to order direct from the manufacturer (they don’t even seem to have a website) but the service from Ral Partha is very good: http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/miniature-paints-c-54/

     

    #71162
    MartinR
    Participant

    As noted above, some colours are more translucent than others (reds and yellows are particularly bad for this) and it also depends what you are painting over. Doesn’t matter if it is acrylic, enamels, oil paint… or how well you mix it.

    For some things e.g. yellow piping on blue uniforms, I find an undercoat of mid brown helps the lighter colour take first time.

    For Vallejo paints, I came across an excellent mixing technique which involves rolling the tube vigorously between both hands whilst it is held horizontal.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #71415
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    I’ve just ordered a few of the Miniature Paints from RPE to see what they’re like (at least I know they’re cheap!). I seem to be making a thing of trying every brand of any significance on the market. I still also have to try the Andrea and Colours of War (Battlefront) paints at some point, but both of them only seem to come in sets, which strikes me as highly impractical. They’re expensive, too. For now, I’m just looking forward to giving the Miniature Paints brand a go.

    By the way, I might have spoken too soon when I described Scalecolor (Scale75) as a minor brand. They’re new, but as I’ve been browsing various webstores over the past week I’ve been seeing them all over the place, so they seem to have gained a good foothold in a short time. So, yay Scalecolor! They make a great product from my (admittedly fairly limited) experience.

    Regarding the natural translucency in some paints, I get that it’s to be expected to some degree due to technical limitations in manufacturing, especially with “warm” shades (that don’t have much black and white in them) and most especially with reds and yellows. But surely, unless a paint is specifically marketed with translucency as a selling point (like the layer series in Citadel’s base-and-layer paints concept, to which I remain dubious by the way), the implied qualities of the product include for the manufacturer to have tried to eliminate translucency as much as possible? In the normal case, when a miniatures hobbyist is buying a paint, he/she is after opacity, not translucency. When some manufacturers manage to deliver on opacity much better than others, I don’t really see the sense in making the lower pigment-to-binder ratio in the less stellar brands out as an “alternative quality” – again, unless the paint is specifically marketed as translucent, which puts it in a different category of product with different criteria.

    To clarify, I’m talking specifically about paints for miniatures, as opposed to generic artists’ paints where the criteria are different. And for that matter, when I buy generic artists’ paints (usually Liquitex Basics in my case), the degree of translucency is stated on the tube, so even then I know what I’m getting.

    #71416
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    So I ordered some Vallejo and found it to be as variable as CDA.
    My CDA purple is very thin and a CDA brown is worse.
    But my CDA red is better than the Vallejo one and my CDA pale sand is awesome!

    So I think I will be mixing and matching and seeing which colour from where suits my needs best.

    #71417

    I still think mixing is your answer.

     

    See here:

    And look what I found (the uses for re-cycled electric toothbrushes!!):

     

    donald

    #71419
    Darkest Star Games
    Participant

    I have found that the HD paints from REAPER have the best 1 coat coverage of any paint I have used.  They have the most finely ground pigment I have ever encountered in an acrylic, and I can even thin them slightly for use in an airbrush.  Odd that it doesn’t take much thinning to spray, yet can cove easily with a brush.  Not the cheapest for those of you across the pond, but well worth it.

    "I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."

    #71422
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    So I ordered some Vallejo and found it to be as variable as CDA. My CDA purple is very thin and a CDA brown is worse. But my CDA red is better than the Vallejo one and my CDA pale sand is awesome! So I think I will be mixing and matching and seeing which colour from where suits my needs best.

    Interesting! I hope I didn’t make you spend too much money on paints you didn’t find satisfactory.

    For what it’s worth, I’ve always been content with my Vallejo reds, although I do find that they need shaking extra hard or I just get pinkish water when I try to squeeze some of the paint out. I also recall that back when Vallejo first began to be well-known in the fantasy/sci-fi miniatures gaming community (around the time they launched their Game Colour range), the opacity of their reds – compared to Citadel at the time – tended to be particularly lifted up in conversations and reviews as being far superior. Still, everything is relative.

    Anyway, one thing that can always be done with paints that aren’t opaque enough is to mix in some black and white to make a different, earthier/colder shade with better opacity. It obviously can’t serve the same purpose as the original shade anymore, but I for one find that I can’t have enough earthy shades.

     

    Not the cheapest for those of you across the pond, but well worth it.

    Availability (or lack thereof) of Reaper paints is also an issue over here. Given how much the Reaper paints are talked about (and praised) by North Americans in the online community, I’m quite surprised by the fact that their UK/Europe market presence is almost nonexistent. P3 (the other American brand) has at least some market presence, but Reaper not so much.

    I get my Reaper paints from Miniature Heroes, by the way.

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