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  • #89786
    Paskal
    Spectator

    Hello everyone,

    Please, Where find a list of the regimental facing colors of the infantry and cavalry units of the Bengal, Bombay and Madras armies between 1845 and 1857?

    Thank you

    #89811
    Alan Hamilton
    Participant

    Hello everyone, Please, Where find a list of the regimental facing colors of the infantry and cavalry units of the Bengal, Bombay and Madras armies between 1845 and 1857? Thank you

    On my website http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Indian%20Mutiny/Indian_Mut_Bkgrd2.htm

    Lots more on the Indian Mutiny http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Indian%20Mutiny/Indian_mutiny_index.htm

     

    #89814
    Paskal
    Spectator

    Thank you Alan because for me it’s Magnificent !

    When I could find the time to read that, I certainly have some questions to ask you on this same topic.

    Alan what do you think about this?

    https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&cm_sp=SearchF-_-home-_-Results&an=boris+mollo&tn=The+Indian+Army&kn=&isbn=

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    #89830
    Alan Hamilton
    Participant

    If you can get the book at a reasonable price do so.  It has a lot of information over a wide range of Indian Army units and also the states and presidencies.  As is usual with Mollo’s work it is very well researched and superbly illustrated.  It is wide ranging though so the coverage of each period is short.  That said it is a book that is well worth getting for the illustrations alone.

    When I did my research quite a few years ago these general books were useful for the Indian Mutiny Period.

    COLLIER, RICHARD; THE INDIAN MUTINY; FONTANA, 1966 (EXCELLENT BIBLIOGRAPHY – NO INDEX)
    EDWARDES, MICHAEL; BATTLES OF THE INDIAN MUTINY, PAN, 1963
    EDWARDES, MICHAEL; RAJ: THE STORY OF BRITISH INDIA, PAN,
    KNIGHT, IAN; QUEEN VICTORIA’S ENEMIES 3 INDIA; OSPREY MENTAL ARMS NO 219, 1990
    WILKINSON – LATHAM, CHRISTOPHER; THE INDIAN MUTINY; OSPREY MEN AT ARMS NO 67; 19
    FORBES-MITCHELL, WILLIAM; THE RELIEF OF LUCKNOW; LONDON; 1962
    KAYE M.M (ED); THE GOLDEN CALM; WEBB AND BOWER; 1980 (BACKGROUND INFO AND PICTURES)
    LLEWELLYN ALEXANDER; THE SIEGE OF DELHI; MACDONALD AND JAMES; 1977
    STUART VIVIAN; BATTLE FOR LUCKNOW; ROBERT HALS; 1975 (GOOD FICTION)
    PEMBLE JOHN (ED); MISS FANE IN INDIA; HEADLINE; 1988 (BACKGROUND INFO)
    FORRESTER; SIEGE OF KRISHNAPUR; (USEFUL FICTION)
    CARMAN WY; INDIAN ARMY UNIFORMS – CAVALRY; LONDON; 1961
    CARMAN WY;  INDIAN ARMY UNIFORMS – INFANTRY; LONDON; 1968
    MACMUNN SIR GEORGE; THE MARTIAL RACES OF INDIA; LONDON; 1932
    MACMUNN SIR GEORGE; THE INDIAN MUTINY IN PERSPECTIVE; LONDON; 1931

    #89850
    Paskal
    Spectator

    Thank you, for the bibliography very useful.

    The book of Mollo at a reasonable price, how maximun?

    The collar and cuffs comour facing the Bengal Cavalry Light (Native) regiments were orange with white in all but one Regiment which wore black. Which ?

    Several battalions of the Bengal Native Infantry had a Rifle Company in addition to or instead of a light company. In addition to?

    Also the result of a Native Infantry Regiment was a single battalion of 10 companies and the result could be: 7 “center” companies, one “grenadier”, one “light” and one “rifle”. Which battalions had a rifle company?

    At a time when the Indian infantry regiments of the 3 HEIC armies had two companies of grenadiers and no light companies, well, from what I remember reading many ago, but I find this weird …

    http://www.irondukeminiatures.co.uk/

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    #90143
    Paskal
    Spectator

    Good evening Alan,

    On your website, I read that several BNI had a rifle company in addition to a light company.

    1- Do you know which BNIs had a Rifle Company in addition to or instead of a light company during the Sikh Wars?

    2 – 1- Do you know which BNI had a Rifle Company instead of a light company during the Sikh Wars?

    3 – 1- Do you know which BNI had no Rifle Company, but only a light company during the Sikh Wars?

    4 – Which BNI Rifle Companies have been dressed in rifle green uniforms. ”

    5 – What types of rifles used the BNI companies rifles?

    6 – During the Sihks wars, all the BNI are considered as light infantry or only some, designated as such?

    King’s and HEIC battalions in India in the third Mahratta and Pindari War (1817 – 1819)had one or more companies armed and dressed as riflemen. An officer, R.G.Wallace, recorded that the 2nd Bn., 56th Foot had ‘ his 8th and Light Companies armed with rifles (But what type? Baker carbine?)and clothed in green’.

    When the 65th relieved it at Poona in 1817,’the rifleswere transferred to the 65th and two of the companies were soon arrayed in green’.

    The Bengal European also had a rifle company until 1824, and a officer expressed his grief at’parting with my handsome green uniform’.Unfortunately no details of these uniforms have materialised.

    Alan, please do you know if during the Sihks wars, British battalions had rifle companies ?

    If so, which ones, which uniforms and which weapons?

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    #90342
    Paskal
    Spectator

    Does anyone know the regimental facing colors of the 3rd and 19th Bombay Native Infantry at the battle of Goojerat and if these two battalions had rifle companies and if these two battalions were considered light infantry ?

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    #90362
    OB
    Participant

    JG Farrell was the author of The Siege of Krishnapur just in case anyone’s chasing it.

    OB
    http://withob.blogspot.co.uk/

    #90367
    Paskal
    Spectator

    Yes, yes OB, but if you know the regimental facing colors of the 3rd and 19th Bombay Native Infantry at the battle of Goojerat and knows if these two battalions had rifle companies and if these two battalions were considered light infantry ,tell us, thank you.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    #90399
    Victoria Dickson
    Participant

    I look forward to seeing some pictures of these armies you are painting.

    #90400
    Paskal
    Spectator

    Madam ,

    I have not started painting yet because I have a lot of historical research and sculpture to do before painting these armies of the Sikh Wars.

    Moreover, I must already know with what historical units I will build them knowing that there are armies list budgets to respect.

    For now I would like to know:

    1 / What uniforms did soldiers of the BNI rifle companies have ?

    2 / Which were the regimental facing colors of the 3rd and 19th Bombay Native Infantry at the battle of Goojerat and knows if these two battalions had rifle companies and if these two battalions were considered light infantry ?

    3 / What uniforms had the soldiers of the 1st Bombay (European) Fusiliers at the Battle of Goojerat ?

    However, to see what I’m doing, you can see my pictures of 25mm Old Glory Plains Indians figures on British and American Old Glory websites.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    #90406
    Victoria Dickson
    Participant

    Well, I hope someone can answer your questions soon so you can get started. 🙂

    #90408
    Paskal
    Spectator

    It’s at a standstill for now, but I never give up, I keep looking.

    #90414
    Victoria Dickson
    Participant

    That must be really frustrating, I think if I had to know every detail before I started a project I’d get nothing done.

    #90415
    Guy Farrish
    Participant

    Victoria! How good to see you back on TWW! Hope you are well and that we will see more of your projects soon. They are always so good. Glad you don’t wait until everything is ‘perfect’ before you proceed! You produce such ‘good enough’ stuff as to make the perfect look pointless!

    #90417
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Good to see you posting Victoria!!

    #90419
    Paskal
    Spectator

    Madame ,

    For me it is impossible to do anything if I do not know how it was, I do in historical damage – as close as possible to known reality – not in science fiction.

    And even in science fiction, unless you create everything, you have to follow the pattern of what you’re interested in.

    #90420
    Paskal
    Spectator

    My research goes forward: the regimental facing colors of the 3rd and 19th Bombay Native Infantry and the battle of Goojerat are respectively sky-blue and deep yellow.

    According to a East India Register and an Army List of 1845, the only regiments with a rifle company dressed in dark green rather than red are: The 1st Madras Native Infanty, 5 th Madras Native Infanty, 16 th Madras Native Infanty, 24 Madras Native Infanty, 26th Madras Native Infanty, 36th Madras Native Infanty, 38th Madras Native Infanty and 49th Madras Native Infanty.

    No Bengal Native Infantry or Bombay Native Infantry battalion is designated as having owned a company of rifles in 1845!

    In the Sikhs wars, the European infantry regiments of the HEIC have the same uniforms as those of the British infantry regiments?

    So there is a big contradiction with what I read above on this topic!

    Sources: Armies of the East India Company 1750-1850 by Stuart Reid.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    • This reply was modified 3 years, 1 month ago by Paskal.
    #90425
    Victoria Dickson
    Participant

    Madame , For me it is impossible to do anything if I do not know how it was, I do in historical damage – as close as possible to known reality – not in science fiction. And even in science fiction, unless you create everything, you have to follow the pattern of what you’re interested in.

    Well, I suppose you could classify a refight of the battle of Gujrat where the 3rd Bombay Native Infantry have white facing colours instead of sky blue as science fiction if you wanted to…

    Perhaps you mean Alternative History?  Though if you were going down that route, I’d think the change in the course of the battle from gaming it was a far bigger change than the facing colours.

    Obviously it’s better to have them correct if you can, but I don’t think I’d pursue it with your dedication.  🙂

    #90426
    Paskal
    Spectator

    Madame,

    At the battle of Goojerat the 3rd Bombay Native had sky-blue facing and the 19th Bombay Native Infantry had deep yellow facing, this is the type of information I am constantly looking for.

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