03/06/2018 at 11:56 #92450
In the first century after Christ, every Roman legion had the same pattern on all the shields of the unit, which made it possible to distinguish it from another legion that sometimes bore the same number.
And in the first century BC, the legions already had numbers (such as those of Julius Caesar) but what pattern wore legionaries on their scutum?03/06/2018 at 14:45 #92461CerdicParticipant
They all have the same pattern in the movies so it must be true…03/06/2018 at 15:05 #92464Not Connard SageParticipant
They all have the same pattern in the movies so it must be true…
They all wore red tunics too.
Obvious contrarian and passive aggressive old prat, who is taken far too seriously by some and not seriously enough by others.03/06/2018 at 15:14 #92468
They’re all the same in the movies so it must be true … ??? You talk about the period movies
Only the officers wore red tunics, the others wore white tunics because it was certainly the least expensive dye for a mass army, for the officers ,the red allowed them to be recognized immediately by the troop …03/06/2018 at 16:38 #92476James MantoParticipant
Not sure what you’re asking.
In the century BC there were legions that would have the same number because they were raised by different people.
After Augustus took power he reorganized the army and rationalized the numbering of the legions.
We assume in both eras that legions had unique designs on their shields. But we don’t know for sure.
I’ve also read convincing arguments for both sides in the red tunic debate.
Personally I like red tunics for legionaries, white for auxiliaries.03/06/2018 at 17:21 #92478
Originally my question is for know what was the type of pattern on the scutum legionaries of the 1st century BC ?
Each legion had to have his scutum pattern in the 1st century BC as in the 1st century AD ! No ?
At this time, in the 1st century BC, auxiliaries do not exist !
You talk about troops of the imperial times …
After 105 BC, as the purely Roman citizen light infantry and the purely Roman citizen cavalry disappear and until the reformation of Augustus when he became emperor, the Romans used cavalry and light infantry provided by the allies or mercenaries as auxiliaries .
These allies or mercenaries light infantry and cavalry of the 1st century BC wore their outfits, equipment and national armaments.
But except during the various civil wars of the 1st century BC, there is no more cavalry of Roman citizens and she is still quoted for the last time in 102 BC.05/06/2018 at 02:46 #92534James MantoParticipant
Yes. I know all that. The discussion was overlapping the Principate.
As far as I’m aware we don’t have any definite knowledge of particular shield designs for legions in the late republic.
The usual wings, laurel wreaths, board etc on different coloured fields all seem good to me.
But if you want to know what Caesar’s Legio X had on their shields, your guess is as good as anyone’s.05/06/2018 at 06:39 #92538
Maybe they did not have scutum designs in the 1st century BC or simply they already had the legion scutum designs of the 1st century AD ?05/06/2018 at 15:14 #92587Darkest Star GamesParticipant
This will be utterly not helpful but….: once upon a time I read that during Augustus soldiers had their name as well as their cohort and century painted on their shields in case they were separated from their comrades. I do not recall if this was on the front or inside the shield, but I do also seem to remember that the shield the writer had examined seemed to show that it was painted a blue and had 2 sets of wings instead of lightning bolts. I do not recall any other details, but do wonder where they found the shield and if the paint pigment had changed over time due to the elements or having been buried/sunk.
"I saw this in a cartoon once, but I'm pretty sure I can do it..."05/06/2018 at 16:17 #92594
Yes it’s inside the shield to find out who fled if the army is able to return to the battlefield ?05/06/2018 at 18:44 #92608
Even the Late Roman shield designs from the Notitia Dignitatum aren’t certain as there are variations between the exisiting copies.
Earlier than that we have very little evidence.
I rather like this interpretation of Roman shield designs …
There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data05/06/2018 at 19:00 #92611
Is there at least one book where would be illustrated all the Roman legions scutum pattern of the 1 st century AD ?05/06/2018 at 19:06 #92613
Nobody really knows what the designs were so no, no book.
We have some general guidelines but not much certainty.
So the world is your oyster as far as shield design is concerned.
There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data05/06/2018 at 19:14 #92614
I must find roman legion scutum patterns of the legions created by Julius Caesar and still existed in the first century AD.05/06/2018 at 19:37 #92616
Well, good luck Paskal, you’ll need a time machine 🙂
There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data06/06/2018 at 07:32 #92642
As for the Republican Period, we only have a few writings and they were not written as accounts to describe the then current practices.
As there was a progression in the Roman military establishment and no overly great and distinct changes from one era/period to another (Marius’ reforms are often touted as the most radical changes), it would be safe to imagine something that is not overly radical in difference between Julius and Trajan. (There was no unprecedented technological changes, for instance that would usher in a radical change.)
The Roman legion scutum pattern was to be identical to 1st century BC and 1st century AD, for example, for legions created by Julius Caesar that still existed under Trajan.
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