Home Forums WWII SdKfz 251/17 queries

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  • #105397
    Avatar photoGrimheart
    Participant

    Hi,

    Having been through all the info I can find in my books and with google I am still confused on a number of points and wonder if anyone here has any reliable (ish) information on these vehicles?

    I have seen these mentioned in TOE’s for 1944/45 as replacing panzer grenadier platoon leader vehicles (previously 251/10) and as a section of 3 vehicles in the heavy platoons carrying the HMG squads (replacing the previous 251/1’s)

    I have a couple of problems with the above!

    Firstly the it seems unlikely from the limited production numbers I have seen quoted that enough vehicles were produced to do this, so would priority have gone to issuing them to just the Heavy platoon, not the platoon leaders? Or was it more likely that a unit either got issued enough to change all the vehicles over, or none at all?

    Secondly from what I can see of these vehicles it seems highly unlikely there was room for a HMG squad to be carried so I assume it was dropped? Can anyone confirm this, or even how many could be carried in the compartment with the 20mm and its crew taking up most of the room?

    Any reliable info or even decent educated guesses would be most welcome.

    Cheers

    Interest include 6mm WW2, 6mm SciFi, 30mm Old West, DropFleet, Warlords Exterminate and others!

    #105405
    Avatar photoMartinR
    Participant

    There was a long discussion about this recently on TMP, with production numbers, actual issue numbers to units etc.

    The short answer? No, there were nithing like enough produced, but some units had a lot of them and yes they did replace platoon CO vehicles.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #105407
    Avatar photoGrimheart
    Participant

    Thanks, I had seen the TMP and Axis forum discussions but I still can’t see how the 4 or 5 men of a platoon hq or mg squad could actually fit in the thing with that great big pedestal and gun in the middle!

    Couldn’t ask on TMP as I am one of the many many banned 😱 and not a forum member elsewhere.

    I would love to see an internal layout of a 251/17 if such a thing exists.

    Cheers

    Interest include 6mm WW2, 6mm SciFi, 30mm Old West, DropFleet, Warlords Exterminate and others!

    #105415
    Avatar photogrizzlymc
    Participant

    The Germans were very good at slotting “something else” into the TOE where needed. I’d suggest trying to find a 251/17 in a museum, or trying to get a plan of one. I’d have thought that putting a pedestal mounted weapon on the thing would leave space for the crew of the gun and bugger all else.

    #105426
    Avatar photodeephorse
    Participant

     

    I couldn’t quickly find any interior photos of a real 251/17, but I have found photos of the interior of a 1/35 Dragon 251/17 of the kind issued to platoon leaders.  I think that this will be an accurate representation of the real thing.  Looking at these I think you could get four men (assuming two seats on the nearside of the vehicle too) adjacent to the rear doors.  With one crewing the gun and another two up front that gives a possible complement of seven soldiers.

     

     

    Play is what makes life bearable - Michael Rosen

    #105427
    Avatar photoMike Headden
    Participant

    Platoon HQ is just an Officer or NCO and a couple of runners so wouldn’t take up much space, given the standard 251 accommodates a crew of 2 plus 10 passengers.

    As to the MG squads, I’d assumed they replaced the MG rather than carrying it. No idea why I thought that.

     

    There are 100 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data

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