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This topic contains 9 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Tony Hughes 6 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #81658
    Angel Barracks
    Angel Barracks
    Moderator

    Some of my inks are glossy/shiny once dry.
    Is this normal?

    #81662
    MartinR
    MartinR
    Participant

    My W&N Peat Brown ink invariably dries glossy. I put matt varnish over it once it has dried (unless it on something shiny, like rifle stocks or a horse).

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by MartinR MartinR.

    "Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" - Helmuth von Moltke

    #81666
    Ruarigh
    Ruarigh
    Participant

    I think shiny ink is normal. The W&N Nut Brown dries shiny too but, as Martin writes, matt varnish is your friend. None of the inks I use remain shiny after spraying with matt varnish.

    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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    #81668
    Rhoderic
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    I’ve never used an ink that isn’t glossy when dry, so it’s entirely normal in my experience. Specifically, my experience is with the old Citadel inks (now long gone), the Vallejo Game Colour inks and one or two inks of other brands made specifically for miniatures. In the case of Citadel and Vallejo I’ve used numerous (5-10) colours of ink from each brand.

    This is in contrast to products sold as “washes” or “shaders” rather than inks. I’ve generally found that they dry more matte, although not completely matte.

    Terminology is a bit muddled here: Inks can still effectively be washes depending on how they’re used (I’ve seen the term “ink wash” used countless times), but for purposes of this discussion I trust we all get the difference between a product marketed as an “ink” and a product marketed as a “wash”.

    One of my former painting styles was basecoat, ink & drybrush in that order. The smooth, glossy surface that the ink left over the basecoat wasn’t very receptive to drybrushing (not enough “tooth”) so I was never really happy with that style and eventually gave up on inks altogether.

    One upside of ink is that because it dries as a hard, smooth, “glassy” surface, it makes a good protective layer, much like gloss varnish. But that presupposes the ink is used as the final coat (excluding varnishes), and the painter doesn’t mind the resulting glossiness or, as MartinR and Ruarigh pointed out, a matte varnish is applied on top of that.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by Rhoderic Rhoderic.
    #81671

    Tony Hughes
    Participant

    If you thin the ink then you will reduce the glossy effect. I have found that, for FW inks, 1:5 dilution reduces the shine and much more eliminates it.

    As I mostly use inks to wash into low areas I often use much higher dilutions to produce a more subtle shading. Even 1:30 has enough effect to make a difference without taking the top tone down.

    What I have found is that heavy ink washes can lift when varnish is applied and colour the varnish coat. Rarely enough to matter except over light colours but it happens.

    Tony of TTT

     

    #81673
    Rhoderic
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    What I have found is that heavy ink washes can lift when varnish is applied and colour the varnish coat. Rarely enough to matter except over light colours but it happens.

    Oh yeah, this too for me. Made me ragequit the hobby, once.

    #81701

    Mr. Average
    Participant

    The only consistently flat washes I’ve found are (hate to say it) Citadel. The others all look “candy coated” and have never felt satisfactory to me. I’m particularly fond of the current formulation of Seraphin Sepia and Nuln Oil, which when applied over Reaper Shadowed Steel are my go to replacement for dry brushing metals like guns and treads (Sepia for a rusty look, or Nuln for plain shadows).

    If you use heavy brush on varnish or anything that relies on surface tension to make a clear coat, washes will always be an issue I think. I prefer spray on acrylic sealant, as it has, I’ve found, a better bond and far less tendency to lift friable liquids like thinned top coats or washes. Just my two cents, of course.

    In re: inks designed for art applications, in particular, like Windsor Newton, they are formulated for porous surfaces like papers, boards and canvas, and I’m not convinced they will never sit exactly right on miniatures.  There’s no tooth in the substrate for it to adhere to. I imagine that has something to do with the lifting as well but I couldn’t prove it. Gesso might improve that, but I don’t care for gesso on my minis.

    #81704
    Rhoderic
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    If you use heavy brush on varnish or anything that relies on surface tension to make a clear coat, washes will always be an issue I think. I prefer spray on acrylic sealant, as it has, I’ve found, a better bond and far less tendency to lift friable liquids like thinned top coats or washes.

    As I use brush-on varnish (and various circumstances make spray-varnishing unfeasible for me) I’m now very curious to know what you’re referring to by “thinned top coats”. Do you mean ordinary paints thinned with water for layered highlights? Or something more like a tint?

    Also, friable liquids? I’m interested to know more about paint theory and this term is new to me.

    #81705

    Mr. Average
    Participant

    Paint is either a solid or a tint. A watercolor stains the paper, but an oil or acrylic sits on top of it. So as you thin it down to mmake highlights and such the pigment gets thinner distribution and so it can break. Some media encourage that (crackle textures, for example) and others make it stretchier (flow improvers). But it’s still a thin layer of paint and if you put anything on it that has a solvent component, like a varnish, it can re-dissolve the outer layers and absorb them into the varnish and make them seem to “bleed.” It happens with ink on coarse paper, too – the liquid moves faster than it dries, and dropping water on it makes it dissolve again and run in weird directions.

    #81707

    Tony Hughes
    Participant

    FW ink is an acrylic ink and I use an acrylic, water based varnish. There is no solvent involved but water. What is likely happening is that some of the particulate matter in the ink has concentrated in low parts of the casting and there is too little medium to fully bond it to the surface so it comes loose as much with brush action as with water. Water based varnishes usually include some surface tension breaker (flow improver) and they act in the same way as a detergent, paint in the varnish brush is washed into the varnish and can stain it – why you should always have a brush dedicated to varnish.

    Acrylic IS a watercolour and can just as easily stain paper as any other medium. Staining pigments are less commonly used in acrylics but they do use some. Not all watercolours stain, many can just be washed off the paper.

    If you thin with a medium then you do not reduce the amount of medium, just distribute the pigment more thinly – that way the bonding is good but coverage reduces and gives greater transparency.

     

     

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