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  • #30710
    CAG 19
    Participant

    and that may as well be me….I have a large collection in 6mm but all this Cold War love in 15mm does bring back those memories of poring over the latest copy of “Threat” published by the Green Slime.  One product was the A3 (or was it A1/2?) of the make up of an Advanced Guard MR Bn and Regiment.

    The whole Combat Recce Patrol, Forward Security Element thing sits well in 15mm and makes up a force that has all sorts of goodies in it that could conceivably have been encountered.

    I am looking at:

    • A couple of BRDM-2s and possibly a BMP as a patrol from the Regt Recce Coy
    • A CRP based on a BMP-1 Platoon with an attached T-64
    • The balance of the FSE based on:
      • a MR Coy with the 1982 MG Platoon and AGS-17 attachments
      • 3 more T-64s as the balance of the Tank platoon (mine rollers ?)
      • BRDM-2Rkh or Rkhm
      • BTR-60B with a squad of Engineers
      • MTU
      • ACRV-1 COP
      • Pair of ZSU-23-4 to protect the Artillery Battery
      • An Artillery battery of 2-S-1s with an ACRV-2 Battery CP
      • Possibly a Battery of ATGW (Sagger rather than spandrel but will take what I can find)

    I have the 2-S-1 Battery nearly finished with all 6 guns, the ACRVs are on order and the ZSU-23-4 are also done. More MR troops are also on their way.  I have a pair of Hinds in the box waiting to go under the airbrush

    Colours this weekend which I can’t go to but my best mate is with a shopping list of bits and pieces.

    And then we will see what BF/FOW release in plastic.  I don’t mind metal but storage is a problem

     

    Regards

    • This topic was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by CAG 19.
    • This topic was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by CAG 19.
    • This topic was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by CAG 19.
    #30714
    Nick Turner
    Participant

    Ah, the Threat, that wonderful 7 Int Company publication!

     

    Looking good, T-64 were always reported as having KMT-6, the mine plough. It is only recently that I have seen an image of one fitted with mine rollers.

    #30722
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    CAG19:

    Looking good, CAG 19. Now think about an IMR, an MTU-55, some BRDM-2 rkh and some BTR-50 Mtr. Carriers and then your set for any situation short of a river assault. You should have a look at Khurasan Miniatures 1970’s Motor-rifle infantry, they are beautiful castings with good variety in every pack.

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Rod Robertson.

    #30724
    CAG 19
    Participant

    Mine is 1982+

    MTU and the Rkh are already listed above.

    Wouldnt expect an IMR to be in the AGMB as it belongs in the Sapper Coy of the Divisional Engr Bn and the Division only has two, but who knows. If I roled it as a forward detachment it would make sense to beef up the mobility support and it s a nice model. Same reason for not having an IPR.

    I am expecting the 120mm Mortars to be truck towed, can’t remember if we saw the MTLB as a tow in this period. The older style 82mm which used the BTR-50P/PK as a portee are probably gone.  Vasilek just coming into service so I can ignore it for now and the 2S9 isn’t really viable

    #30725
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Wowzer much better looking than any of my Russian’s !!!

    #30726
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    CAG 19:

    Soviet doctrine had a motor rifle regiment led by a road opening detachment which includes various BRDM’s, BMP-R’s, a motor rifle platoon plus an MBT an ACRV-1/2 from the lead 2S1 battery, and an IMR for route clearing.

    This was followed up by an advanced guard of a motor rifle company (- one ptn.) an attached tank ptn (- one tank) a battery of six 2S1 and the second ACRV-1/2 and a detachment of either two ZSU-234 or two SA-9 or SA-13.

    Then came the rest of the regiment.

    120 mm mortars were either truck towed in wheeled regiments or towed by BTR-50’s or MTLB’s in BMP equipped regiments. Some BTR-50’s may have had 120 mm mortars mounted on their back decks, but I have always suspected this was not the case. I don’t think SO-120’s or BTR mounted automatic mortars were in service as early as 1982 but by the end of the decade they were being fielded, I’m pretty sure.

    Sorry about missing the MTU and BRDM Rkh’s.

    Khurasan is bringing out some 1980’s Soviet Motor Rifle Infantry in a few months, so you may want to keep an eye out for that. Aside from Eureka, do you know of a manufacturer of an AGs-17 Planya in 15mm scale? The Eureka one is tiny and the crew are in more modern kit c. 1990’s.

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Rod Robertson.

    #30729
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    Tim:

    3 X BMP or BTR per platoon. 3 X platoons to a company with a company HQ BMP/BTR. 3 X companies of 10 X BMP/BTR plus 1-3 Btn HQ BMP-U/BTR-PU plus supporting vehicles. Attached to each battalion of motor rifle infantry could be a 13 tank company of one Coy. HQ tank and 3 X four-tank platoons.

    The Road Opening Detachment was a platoon of mech. infantry in either 3 X BMP’s/BTR’s plus one or sometimes two MBT’s taken from the lead company in the line of march, plus engineering (an IMR and an engineering section in a BMP/BTR/BRDM-2), chemical defense, artillery observers and AA attachments. Sometimes ATGW attachments were also made.

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Rod Robertson.

     

    #30740
    CAG 19
    Participant

    When discussing Soviet organisation is all depends on both year and whose source being quoted as with most things check the orginal sources they quote from, a latter date on a report isn’t any good if it still refers to a 1977 orbat for example.  That said later reports ie 1989 and later are generally better at discussing the 1977 – 1982 changes as it took a while to filter down.  So my forces, for both 6mm and 15mm are based on what is generally noted as being the post 1982 changes.

    My Coy is based on:

    • 3 BMP/BTR to a Platoon
    • 3 Platoons to a Coy
    • Single Coy HQ Vehicle
    • Coy level MG Platoon (PKM and AT-7 in BTR, PKM in BMP units) in a pair of BTR/BMPs
    • Bn Level attachments (depending on msn and commanders choice)
      • AA Section in BMP (if SA-7/14 removed from Pls)
      • AGS-17 Section in BMP/BTR (centralised as a battalion asset in 1982 but could be detached back down)

    The soviet practise of creating patrols and specialist recon efforts is a whole piece on its own so I would air on the side of caution when discussing the structure of the OOD and CRP (BRD)  they were unique elements and could be colocated and often were.  Specialist recon elements, such as NBC and Artillery also existed as stand alone patrols as well as combining when it was necessary to fight for information and being colocated with the BRD.  It means we can justify all sorts of one of models on this basis 🙂

    Soviet Recon generally was still one of finding information by stealth rather than fighting for it.  By the nature of combat, recon forces become a combat indicator.

    I wouldn’t expect to find an ACRV down with the OOD or the BRD. There were two ACRV variants per battery. One is the COP and in my example would typically co-located with the HQ of the Forward Security Element (GPZ), the second is the Battery FDC and is with the guns.

    No one really knows the full picture and as long as you play both sides by the same level of conjecture (which worries me about TY dumbing down the WP Forces) we could be looking at some cracking cold war games in a range of scales

     

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by CAG 19.
    #30747
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    Here is an interesting page on this topic from a wargaming perspective.

    http://coldwargamer.blogspot.ca/2015/07/ttp-soviet-advanced-guard-and-march.html

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Rod Robertson.

    #30753
    CAG 19
    Participant

    Andy’s site is excellent, and has plenty of background.

    managed to knock these up at tea time and might get them painted on Friday.  QRF ARCV’s are in the post somewhere

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by CAG 19.
    #30759
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Wish I had some one to order Zvezda from here in the USA.

    #30761
    CAG 19
    Participant
    #30762
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Those are distributors not retailers ….That is my dilemma.

    #30764
    CAG 19
    Participant
    #30765
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    That could work, never ordered from them so it would be an adventure…..

    #30766
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    Kyoteblue:

    The War Store is great. Neal is quick, efficient and proactive. I have always had excellent service. Just Jack has ordered from them too so you can get a second opinion there.

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Rod Robertson.

    #30767
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    GAG 19:

    I will heed your wise counsel and not assume that Soviet lead elements in what ever form have immutable structures and composition. Love the 2S1’s on your table! Are the Zvezda plastics?

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Rod Robertson.

    #30768
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Hum…..

    #30793
    CAG 19
    Participant

    Rod,

    They are plastic so nice and light and go together very quickly.

    I will work on some specialist recce next and leave the BMP and Tanks to later.  Do you have any shots of the QRF IMR.  I like engineering equipment on the table but the scenario needs to have a benefit for them to be any use on the table.  When I was working up some CW stuff for MSH I gave a lot of consideration to how much engineering would have taken place and what is needed to balance out.  Not many games have engineering activity in them so a case of play balance I would suspect.

    #30845
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    CAG-19:

    There is a small picture of a QRF IMR based on the T-55 hull on the QRF website. My QRF IMR is still in the bag but it is a nice kit with crisp and clear casting and accessories which fit together well. If you’re really gung-ho on details and fiddly bits, have a look at the Shapeways 1/100 scale IMR but be prepared to take out a second mortgage on you house! I don’t think anyone makes the IMR based on the T-72 hull, at least I’ve never seen one.

    When I get my model done, I will contact you and send you some photos of the kit before, during and after completion. That will be a ways down the road however because I’m bogged down with WWII and Ultramodern 15’s right now.

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Rod Robertson.

    #30849
    Sparker
    Participant

    A great post and some lovely looking kit. Good to see the Zvezda SPG’s raw in the flesh so to speak. Thanks.

    http://sparkerswargames.blogspot.com.au/
    'Blessed are the peacekeepers, for they shall need to be well 'ard'
    Matthew 5:9

    #30850
    CAG 19
    Participant

    The move to build up, at 1:1, Cold War forces in 15mm continues.  I have now put together 6 2-S-1 Gvozdika 122mm SPG which will be the Artillery allocated to my Forward Security Element (GPZ) of the Advanced Guard Motor Rifle Battalion.  To go with the Battery I needed the Battery Command Post (COP) and the Fire Direction Centre (FDC).  These two vehicles are known in NATO terms as the ACRV-1 and ACRV-2 respectively.  There are other variants but they are out of scope for a game at company level.

    The only manufacturer in 15mm is QRF and I ordered MSCV02 and MSCV04 from their webstore.  A small package was waiting for me when I came home from work.

    This is what you get in each pack.

    • Hull
      • They should be identical.
    • Turret
      • The ACRV-1 pack contains a turret with the Laser Range Finder on the RHS.

    • The ACRV-2 pack has a plain turret

    • Left and Right Tracks
    • Dshk HMG

    Observations

    •  Comparing it with the Zvezda 2-S-1, in the same scale, shows that the hull shape and dimensions is consistent between both vehicles.

    However the running gear on the QRF kits appears too small. It has the right shape it, but isnt long enough and is about 2mm narrower than the Zvezda one.

    • The ACRV-2 for some reason has the RHS stowage box crudely removed.  This would be correct for the ACRV-3 but not for a ACRV-2 variant so I will need to clean the metal up and build a new piece.

    • The hull overhang at the LH rear has a large build ups of excess metal which will need to be removed.

    • The rear hull has a solid block of metal representing the track guards and amphibious vanes are modelled in the down position.  They should be slatted and for road movement be in the up position like these.

    • The front  track guards are not provided and the front of the running gear is left exposed.
    • There are some minor mould lines running around the hull which need to be cleaned up (not a niggle as I expect to find a mould line on a white metal kit).
    • Most western photos and drawings show the ACRV-1 with a PKM MG and not the Dshk.

    Ideas for improving the model

    • ACRV-1
      • Clean up the bottom of the hull removing the lump of excess metal.
      • Replace the rear track guard and make a new thin one from plastic and add the slatted vanes from the Zvezda kit
      • Clean up the rest of the hull and make up at least two radio antennae.
        • Replace the running gear with that from a spare Zvezda kit. This might involve some work carving the hull to fit or I might just fit the track kits.
      • Make up track guards
      • Look for a pintle mount PKM
    • ACRV-2
      • Clean up the cut marks and build a new external box.
      • Rest as the ACRV-1 (leaving it with the Dshk)
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by CAG 19.
    #30857
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    Wow!

    #30868
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    Oh!

    i found an IMR-2 CEV on Shapeways so a T-72 based chassis is now an option!

    http://www.shapeways.com/product/8CNVN22JN/mg100-r07a-imr-2-combat-engineering-vehicle

    Cheers.

    Rod Robertson.

    #31173
    CAG 19
    Participant

    I have cleaned up the kit as far as my modelling skills, and time, allow.

    I have replaced the running gear with that from the Zvezda kit.  I ended up using green stuff to attach it to the hull to allow me to position and keep the tracks reasonably vertically.

    I haven’t made a new stowage box to replace the one chopped off.  Too much hassle and I was impatient to get these to the painting table

    I have trimmed down the swim vanes at the rear and while they fit on the LHS reasonably ok, the ones on the RHS stick out.  This is because of the positioning of the container on the rear hull.  I am not removing it and replacing it with a piece of styrene but if you wanted to that would be an option

    I drilled out the antenna housings at the front and rear and put a 10mm long piece of piano wire in as antenna.  I have left the NSV MG in place as I couldn’t source one

    I migh get chance on friday to get this under the airbrush

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by CAG 19.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by CAG 19.
    #31204
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    CAG 19:

    Very nice work and I look forward to see them painted and weathered. Good luck and please keep us posted.

    Cheers and good gaming.

    Rod Robertson.

    #31305
    CAG 19
    Participant

    Battery completed to a gaming standard. Might consider basing them and improving the highlights. Couple of errors to fix, such as “107” on the RHS has a missing decal and I don’t have have any in my decal box for some reason.

    with these out the way  just looking forward to adding a company of tanks and BMPs to let me try out either combination as the FSE.  Terrain next…..and then find somewhere to store it all.


    • This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by CAG 19.
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