Home Forums Air and Sea Air Somewhere Over the Bekaa Valley, 1982

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  • #20539
    Just Jack
    Participant

    All,

    Well, I was able to get a second modern playtest of the new aerial combat rules in this weekend, and it was fun once again. This time we’ve got Israeli F-16s up against Syrian MiG-23s, but it’s more than that: the Israeli pilots are aces, but their are only two of them, while the Syrians are rookies, and there are four of them.

    Even so, I was a little worried about the numbers advantage, so I started the Israelis off on their board edge, in a trailing position, on the Syrian flight’s rear left quarter, and I gave the Israelis the advantages of altitude and the fact they had already ‘spotted’ the Syrians, who would go first each turn, but would have to roll to spot the Israelis. It turned out the spotting issue wasn’t much of an advantage, as the Syrians got in a lucky roll early on and were able to quickly to turn into their attackers.


    The Syrians get into position and get off the first shot.


    But the Israelis got the first score, with the Syrian pilot ejecting.

    The fight was fun, but still took an hour and fifteen minutes… I was real nervous about the numbers difference, and, to tell you the truth, I wouldn’t run a ‘real’ game 2 vs 4. I could see doing 3 vs 6, 4 vs 6 or 8, etc…, but 2 vs 4 leaves you too susceptible to one wacky roll (which isn’t unrealistic, it’s just not very much fun as a game).

    The rules ‘feel’ right to me; there’s nothing strange about them (to me), there’s no weird result (so far). I’ll say the rules aren’t the coolest thing ever, and there’s nothing all that sexy about them, but they are giving a fast and fun game that feels (to me) like a dramatized dogfight.

    For the whole fight, please check the blog at:
    http://blackhawkhet.blogspot.com/2015/03/somewhere-over-bekaa-valley-1982.html

    V/R,
    Jack

    #20546
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Good AAR hope the storms missed ya. We had a little excitement up here in Okieland.

    #20549
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    Just Jack:

    Good looking game and an interesting report. An hour and a quarter is a very short miniatures game so I don’t see why you are concerned. If you want fast gaming then play video games. Miniatures take time to make, paint and game with.

    cheers and good game design.

    Rod Robertson.

    #20632
    Just Jack
    Participant

    Thanks Blue, and I’m glad to hear you’re alright.  We had a beautiful, sunny day down here.

    Ouch!  What?  Video games?  Really?  You’re killing me man 😉

    Thanks for taking a look.  Any thoughts or questions on the rules themselves?

    V/R,
    Jack

    #20633
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Glad the weather missed you Just Jack, I would like to try out your air rules some day. But I have too much else to do right now.

    #20710
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    Just Jack:
    Another very interesting report and (I hate to admit it) pictures which make the narrative far more understandable! The games look good too!
    I still don’t understand what effect on these games your rules have because I cannot glean from your descriptions how the rules work. However, you seem to be enjoying them so that’s all that matters I guess. Also, I still can’t figure out why the Israeli’s didn’t blast the Syrian Migs from the air with long-range radar guided missiles rather than risking life and limb by closing to use heat-seekers, etc. No doubt the Israelis felt they had to bend to G-d’s will! Deus Vult!

    Cheers and good gaming!

    Rod Robertson.

    #20802
    Just Jack
    Participant

    Pictures really are, as Kyote would say, ‘the bee’s knees,’ or ‘the cat’s meow.’ 😉

    “I still don’t understand what effect on these games your rules have because I cannot glean from your descriptions how the rules work.”
    I suppose it is kind of difficult to ‘show’ in the batreps.  If you’re familiar with the 5Core series, the activation roll is the same, simply modified for air vice land combat.  The combat mechanism of using kill and shock dice is the same as well, simply modified for air vice land combat.  Maneuvering is very simple: a given aircraft has a number of activation points it can use, and it takes activation points to move forward, then more activation points to move up or turn, and less to dive (in a nutshell).  If you’re familiar with the ‘tailing’ concept from Bag The Hun, this is in there also.  I have yet to start messing with random events.

    “However, you seem to be enjoying them so that’s all that matters I guess.”
    Amen, brother.  A few more games and the rules will be opened for playtesters (if you’re interested).

    “I still can’t figure out why the Israeli’s didn’t blast the Syrian Migs from the air with long-range radar guided missiles rather than risking life and limb by closing to use heat-seekers, etc.”
    Well, it had to do with the geographically tiny battlespace and very restrictive rules of engagement (I’m talking about the real life war in Lebanon in 1982).  As a matter of fact, Israeli F-15s and F-16s scored 51 of their 55 kills with Sidewinders.  In any case, BVR radar kills make for poor tabletop games 😉

    Thanks for taking a look.

    V/R,
    Jack

    #20808
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    I see War Panda is too good for us over here……

    #20950
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    Kyoteblue:

    If he’s stuck in Toronto do we really want to associate with him?

    #20955
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Is Toronto that bad ??? I don’t know much about The Great White North.

    #20960
    Rod Robertson
    Participant

    Kyoteblue:

    Toronto is a nice place but since it surpassed Montreal in size and importance we Montrealers have had a rabid hate-on for that up-start metropolis. Their hockey team is the pits and their Canadian Football team is mediocre. Toronto is now the financial capital of Canada and its collective priorities have so far diverged from the rest of Canada that many Canadians have come to dislike the city. In terms of esteem Toronto is to Montreal as Newark is to New York City. Sorry for dumping Canadian biases and sour-grapes into your gestalt dude. Now let’s think of cute, furry, happy little bunnies jumping about. There, tranquility is restored. Nice bunnies………

    Positive waves and mellow thoughts.

    Rod Robertson.

    #20961
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    Um….OK……Shrug.

    #20968
    Ivan Sorensen
    Participant

    Didn’t even realize we had an “Air” forum.

    Maybe you could give a blow by blow of a turn Jack?

    Nordic Weasel Games
    https://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/5701/Nordic-Weasel-Games?src=browse5701

    #20975
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    We have a sea forum as well. I posted there about a Nappy Naval game I play.

    #21007
    CAG 19
    Participant

    How would it play if you used the mechanism in NEIS? I like the idea of a reaction based sequence.

    #21025
    Just Jack
    Participant

    Commissar – Didn’t know there was an Air forum, eh?  Way to be there, buddy 😉  I’ll do a breakdown of a turn, but not yet, I’ve got too much to type already on this next batrep.  But I’ll get to it after I finish this batrep, I promise.

    Kyote – You need to give us more info on the Bloody Broadsides rules, buddy!  I’m very interested in the period, so you’re not gonna get away with saying “I played them and liked them.” 😉

    CAG19 – Hadn’t really looked at the NEIS mechanism, not sure how to make activation points work out (not to mention, a goal was to keep the 5Core activation mechanism we all love so much).  There is reaction fire built into the game (relatively limited, as in the rest of 5Core, and it’s only Guard Fire, no Snap Fire; you’ll see it in my upcoming batrep); for a very short moment I considered reactive movement, but there were several issues:

    1.  It varied from 5Core, which was the smallest of the problems, but a problem nontheless.

    2.  I tried it where you could reactively move and fire, and that was way to powerful.

    3.  Ultimately reactive movement simply resulted in an endless merry-go round where no one could get into a decent shooting position (deflection shooting is important in the game, so if you’re 90 degrees you’re only using shock dice, unable to damage or kill your target).

    I need to test some more stuff, hammer out a few more things, then it will be available for playtest, if anyone is interested.  But you’ll have to swear on your honor/soul/firstborn to actually play at least one game and provide feedback.

    V/R,
    Jack

    #21027
    kyoteblue
    Participant

    OK Ok BB is only 5 pages of rules. I’ve only played Frigate actions so far but it does scale up to Trafalgar size actions. Bumgardener uses some of the Sails  of Glory plastic ships, and a Hex-mat to play on . My other main opponent Kenneth Burke is also planning to buy the rules and ships. I will likely do so as well. (Have to buy a hex-mat). Nappy Sail is the only Nappy game I will play…er I read Patrick O’Brian.

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