03/06/2019 at 08:56 #115711
I recently found a large bag of figures I have no memory of buying. They are 15mm Peter Pig (unarmoured) Vikings, and I almost certainly bought them as part of my plan to add some celtic fringe troops to my Wars of the Rose army – so that is what I am now doing.
But….. There are an awful lot of them. So I also decided to bodge them to serve as emergency foederati for my Late Romans. You will by now be realising that exact historical accuracy is not one of my bug-bears, I think they look OK as Germans.
But…. There are an AWFUL lot of them…. And as my Late Romans haven’t arrived yet, I am painting them first, and slowly realising there really are an awful lot of them, and in fact, what I have here on my hands is a Goth army…. All I would need to add are cavalry, and TADA! another army.
So, I have moved from ‘Random Purchase’ to ‘most of an army’ and have to make a decision.
If I buy Peter Pig Viking Cavalry to go with them, there is only 1 pack of cavalry in the Viking Range and they are not, at all, late german. I can buy some proper 5th or 6th century german cavalry, there are plenty out there, but I almost feel that it would spoil the moral purity of the Army. Do I make sense here? The army is admittedly a bit of a fudge..
“Say Pat, what are those?”
“Oh wow really??”
“No, really they were Vikings I bought ten years ago, but I cleverly painted them up to look like germans and they are fine aren’t they?”
“(No, Pat they look like bloody Vikings to me, but I shall Humour You)” “Niiice!”
Buying some actual Germans would spoil that completely.
Should I stick to my principals and buy Peter Pig Viking Cavalry, or should I admit defeat and buy the figures that would actually look right for the Army??03/06/2019 at 09:18 #115718
I think you have answered your own question when you talk about the moral purity of the army. Stick to the Vikings and just tell people that your army is based on the latest research which will be published soon in Top Journals by Top People.03/06/2019 at 10:33 #115731willbParticipant
Considering that the Vikings did not use cavalry and that the Peter Pig figures do look similar to Gothic cavalry You should be fine.03/06/2019 at 10:37 #115732
well, they may not have used cavalry that we know of but they loved to ride. Was it Egil’s saga where the first thing the Vikings did when they made landfall on the coast of ireland was steal some poor bugger’s herd of horses and trot off to commit Larceny with violence…? maybe I am thinking of a Henry Treece book… both historically valid in my view.
Good, I am gonna go for Viking cavalry! This makes me happy! an army for about £50.00. Resuult!
03/06/2019 at 11:24 #115739
- This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Sane Max.
well, they may not have used cavalry that we know of but they loved to ride. Was it Egil’s saga where the first thing the Vikings did when they made landfall on the coast of ireland was steal some poor bugger’s herd of horses and trot off to commit Larceny with violence…? maybe I am thinking of a Henry Treece book… both historically valid in my view. Good, I am gonna go for Viking cavalry! This makes me happy! an army for about £50.00. Resuult!
Brilliant. An army with minimal additional outlay is a great thing.
On the horse front, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle records them grabbing horses as fast as they could so they could make inroads in various places, and it also makes reference to riding armies in the tenth century after they have settled in the Danelaw. Adam of Bremen records that the Swedes were the best horse breeders in Europe. The most recent article on Birka Bj.581 describes her as a cavalry commander. Horses were status items and important in the pre-Christian religion of Scandinavia. Eating horse flesh was part of the religion as far as we can tell which is why it was banned in Iceland after the conversion to Christianity. So, lots of connections to horses.
Considering that the Vikings did not use cavalry …
Depends what you mean by cavalry. There are references to Vikings fighting mounted in the Frankish Annals and there is a fairly good argument that, while they preferred fighting on foot, the social elite had the equipment and skills to fight mounted if necessary, much like knights in the medieval period. Helmet plates from pre-Viking Sweden depict mounted warriors in combat, so it seems odd that they would suddenly forget how to use mounted troops. It’s not a question with a simple answer, especially given the paucity of sources that actually describe how people fought, and the varying nature of the terrain and cultures within Scandinavia; there’s no monolithic Viking culture at this time. For these reasons, I don’t think a blanket proscription on mounted troops in Viking armies is accurate.03/06/2019 at 11:54 #115743willbParticipant
I was rhinking mainly of the raids they did and do agree that back home they would have mounted cavalry, but then they would not have been viking. “Viking” is the term for going to sea on a ship to conduct a raid. A Norwegian knight on a crusade referred to the Algerian pirates who attacked his ship as “Vikings”. Horses would not have been easily transported on a longship and considering that when they got to where they were going they could take what was available. To field a mounted cavalry on a raid they would need to find enough horses, saddles and tack from the local gentry and nobility. The settlements in the Danelaw would have been able to field cavalry, but those were not going “Viking”.03/06/2019 at 12:40 #115754
That’s a fair point about the raiding armies. They certainly would not have had horses when they first arrived, although we do know that almost the first action of the mob that turned up in East Anglia in the mid-ninth century was to acquire horses from the local king.
I was being quite sloppy in my use of Viking, using it with its modern meaning that refers to the inhabitants of Scandinavia and the Viking diaspora. It’s a useful shorthand for the most part, especially because groups like the Great Heathen Army were not solely comprised of Scandinavians. If we restrict the meaning to just raiders, then I have a sense that we don’t really have Viking armies at all. Once forces get large enough to be armies, they are not really going a-viking any more, but are engaged in somewhat different activities from a basic raid. No doubt there’s some fuzzy middle ground and this idea needs more research though.03/06/2019 at 13:33 #115760
I do the same thing Ruarigh, a Dane is a Swede is a Viking 🙂
I have never seen a ‘Viking’ army with Cavalry in it, I have to say.
That being said, the Peter Pig game looks to be a skirmish, for fighting small-scale raids and the like, in which case a couple of lads on stolen horses is perfectly cromulent.03/06/2019 at 13:40 #11576103/06/2019 at 13:46 #115762
I am quite fond of their figures, but only one of their games pleases me. The rest I do not like, at all.03/06/2019 at 13:53 #11576603/06/2019 at 14:18 #11576704/06/2019 at 05:11 #115796Who Asked This JokerParticipant
Vikings and Saxons both used horses in battle…Or at least up to the battle as mounted infantry. Vikings (aka Norse or Northmen) inhabited a place called Normandy. I hear those guys were pretty good at fighting from horseback. 😉 Just my 2 cents.
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
--Abraham Lincoln16/06/2019 at 10:23 #116410
The first wing of my Goths. These are an ally contingesnt for the Late Romans, until their mates are painted.
The General is from a bag of Essex Germanic cavalry I found in my bits box. I have used some of them for command stands, and will have enough to mix into my PP horse for a little variety. They have all been quite badly squished in the 15 years they must have rattling around in there, this chaps face is mostly gone, and his horse is at least 2mm lower than it should be, but I still think he has a lot of character. I always associate Essex with rather stiff figures lacking personality, but this fellow pleases me.
I have left all the banners blank while I think of some designs for German banners. Any good resources out there?
Pat16/06/2019 at 10:33 #116413Not Connard SageParticipant
“The link you followed may have expired, or the Page may only be visible to an audience that you aren’t in.” 😉
"I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."16/06/2019 at 10:36 #116415
I am working on it dammit Connard 🙂
edit, thank goodness for teenage daughters.
16/06/2019 at 10:49 #116419
- This reply was modified 1 year ago by Sane Max.
216/06/2019 at 10:50 #11642016/06/2019 at 10:51 #11642116/06/2019 at 14:34 #116427Thorsten FrankParticipant
Are these Rohirim??? *duckandcover*
Nicely done, I like that.
"In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda16/06/2019 at 15:26 #116430
Are these Rohirim??? *duckandcover*
ooooh no, but they could be…. does anyone do LotR army lists for Hail Caesar?05/08/2019 at 18:06 #119336
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