Home Forums Air and Sea Naval Steamer Wars – Questions for David Manley

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  • #139568
    MattH
    Participant

    I’ve been trying out these rules recently and have played the Kingani vs Mimi & Toutou engagement several times. It’s raised some questions which I hope David or anyone else familiar with the rules can answer:

    Gunnery Phase – is firing simultaneous, or by initiative?

    Rifle fire – there’s a damage table for MGs and rifle fire, but no entry for rifles on the Range/To Hit table. Also, no data on how many ‘rifles’ are carried by vessels. How’s it supposed to work?

    What happens if a fleeing ship fails another morale check? On 2 separate plays the Kingani failed her morale check and had to flee. This meant she had to turn away, and with no aft gun was unable to return fire, and unable to outrun her attackers, resulting in the British boats sitting behind her and casually shooting her to bits. I house-ruled this so that a ship getting a second ‘flee’ result surrenders, but I’m interested in your take on it.

    #140466
    MattH
    Participant

    Bumping this post in the hope that David might see it and respond.

    #140469
    Mike
    Keymaster

    I have pinged him via FB for you.
    Fingers crossed.

    #140476

    What a service you provide Mike!

    Gun Dog Miniature Painting Services
    https://m.facebook.com/gundogminiatures/
    Sniffing out unpainted armies!

    #140479
    DM
    Participant

    Hi Matt, sorry I missed your post that Mike has kindly alerted me to. Answers as follows:

    1. Gunnery is simultaneous. That said you could use initiative order for this as well if you wish.
    2. Rifles – treat as MG. The assumption is that there are several shooters rather than a singleton. Rifle groups are intended more for troops on shore, but you could allow a transport with no other armament to have the benefit of a rifle group to represent a few embarked personnel with small arms
    3. I like the “multiple flee leads to surrender” idea. I would go for 2 flees = surrender for civilian craft or lower morale, 3 for those of stiffer moral fibre.

    Its been 6 years since I published the rules. I might be looking at my first upissue 🙂

    #140481
    MattH
    Participant

    No worries David, stuff tends to drop off the front page here pretty quickly, it’s easy to miss a topic. Thanks for the reply and thanks to Mike for the nudge.

    The reason I ask about the rifles is that according to Peter Shankland’s book the Kingani “shifted her fire to Toutou and engaged Mimi with rifles”. It probably had no effect, but it might make a pursuing boat less keen to close to point blank range.

    #140572
    DM
    Participant

    So i’ve thought more about this as I;m going to issue a corrected edition soon. Changes I’m going to include from this:

    1. Gunfire alternates between players; initiative winner chooses a ship and fires, then their opponent and alternate thereafter. Damage is resolved immediately.
    2. Rifles are treated as machine guns but their range bands are 0-4, 4-7, 7-10
    3. Three “flees” – strike and surrender, unless civilian in which case surrender after two.
    #140592
    MattH
    Participant

    I set up a game of this yesterday with Mimi, Toutou, Fifi and Netta against the Goetzen. The result was: Fifi sunk, but the other Allied ships unscathed. Goetzen disarmed, disabled and then sunk – largely by MG fire! Some thoughts/suggestions based on this:

    1. MGs seem overpowered, especially against Class 1 (and perhaps 2) targets. I’ve house-ruled it for now like this: ignore all damage effects for MGs/rifles against Class 1 & 2 targets which are not: heavy suppression, crew hit, non-critical engine damage, fire, bridge hit. I’ve put an asterisk next to all other entries on the damage table as a reminder.
    2. Guns seem to get knocked out a bit too frequently. Perhaps adjust the damage table so that Gun Hit is on a 4, and Hull damage on 5-7? Also, when randomly determining which gun is hit, always include all the original gun positions, and if you hit one that’s already out it’s no effect.
    3. Gun crew hits on Class 1 vessels – these ships have plenty of crew, so perhaps the gun crew can be rolled for to be replaced in the repair phase?
    4. Suggest moving Fire and Flood effects, and the rules pertaining to them, to the Repair Phase, and making it clear that flooding is ongoing till contained (presuming that’s correct).
    1. Gunfire alternates between players; initiative winner chooses a ship and fires, then their opponent and alternate thereafter. Damage is resolved immediately.

    I actually tried this exact method. Normally I’m a fan of sequential gunnery but I found it to be a little confusing as regards suppression effects, since suppression affects gunnery on the next turn, so I went back to simultaneous. Under your new rule would suppression affect gunnery on this turn and the next, or just next turn?

    By the way, thanks for revisiting these rules David, I appreciate you’re a busy chap and you’re probably not getting filthy rich on the proceeds from what is a very niche subject!

    #140596
    Jim Jackaman
    Participant

    The more I follow this thread the more I fancy giving Steamer Wars a try!

    #140786
    DM
    Participant

    “Under your new rule would suppression affect gunnery on this turn and the next, or just next turn?”

    You’d be suppressed in the turn the suppression was caused and the following turn. I was thinking about how to keep track of this and decided to use two typs of shell splash markers, one with a single splash, one with two splashes so they are visually distinct. If a craft is suppressed in an odd turn place a single splash marker, if in an even turn then add a two splash marker. Remove splashes at the start of a turn that also correspond to that. For example, a craft is suppressed on turn 3 – place  single splash marker, it remains suppressed in turn 4, and at the start of turn 5 (an odd turn) the single marker is removed. If it suffers a suppression again in turn 4 it gets a 2 splash marker to replace the one splash.

     

    Thanks for your other suggestions, on which I shall cogitate tonight.

    #140806
    madman
    Participant

    The more I follow this thread the more I fancy giving Steamer Wars a try!

    I picked it up as the East African campaign always held some fascination (must have been too many viewings of the African Queen as a kid). I found a video on Utube about the “duel” between the gun boats dragged overland and the German ships on Lake Tanganyika. The addition of possible actions during the RCW made it an added bonus. Now to get the time and just DO IT.

    #140847
    MattH
    Participant

    I was thinking about how to keep track of this and decided to use two typs of shell splash markers, one with a single splash, one with two splashes so they are visually distinct.

    The method I’ve been using is this:

    Suppression incurred in the gunnery phase is denoted by placing a splash marker near the bow of the target vessel. (Heavy suppression = 2 splashes). At the end of the gunnery phase all splashes at the stern of vessels are removed.

    In the movement phase, after each vessel moves, any splashes that were at the bow are placed near the stern.

    I picked it up as the East African campaign always held some fascination (must have been too many viewings of the African Queen as a kid). I found a video on Utube about the “duel” between the gun boats dragged overland and the German ships on Lake Tanganyika.

    There’s also a very good documentary on Prime Video called ‘The Real African Queen’. Well worth a watch.

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