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  • #187218
    Avatar photoOotKust
    Participant

    🌝

    #187232
    Avatar photovtsaogames
    Participant

    Before discovering the Funken books (in the pre-Cambrian era), I relied on guides by Jack Scruby and such: blue French, red British… Not just uniforms, but history too: while books about the history of the Napoleonic Wars weren’t that hard to find, stuff about the French Revolutionary Wars preceding them were thin on the ground, so I relied on the canned histories in various wargame rules. It was quite a few years before I discovered that the way Revolutionary France got into wars with just about every major power in Europe was by declaring war on them.

     

    Beware the “facts” in wargame rules. Some are actual facts, others less so.

    It's never too late to have a happy childhood

    #187516
    Avatar photoOotKust
    Participant

    Beware the “facts” in wargame rules. Some are actual facts, others less so.

    Being a card carrying skeptik… I only ever believed the big boys anyway; PGs Wargaming For Fun (?) etc. and the rest were I felt merely ‘interpretations’ of truth in all its forms…

    but you knew that… 🙂

    #188196
    Avatar photoOotKust
    Participant

    Providing this has been authenticated, and is traceable through records, how can we not believe this painting of rather subdued details of a sergent of fusiliers.

    While the auction sales text refers to 1807 it is more likely to be a portrait that post being ‘pensioned off’-a  wounded and honoured sergent is shown in 1808 dress back in France I’d conjecture- the ornate shako plate certainly not issued very early in the Empire.

    Cited additional info:

    Great post by Serguei Sergeev Also his Base Leonore file is below https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/…
    Sadly, his file in the regimental records does not record what he looks like, but it does say he only stood at 1m 59cm (5’0). He started his career in the voltigeurs of the 2e Battalion and was promoted to Sergent in the 1e company of the 3e Battalion on 1 February 1806. He retired on 30 December 1807* [documented date only].

    Must have been educated to be promoted so quickly, and the obvious, too short according to ‘regulations’ to be a fusilier which was why he was drafted to the voltigeurs (another point of contention as to their existence). Although being a sergent meant he was not ‘in the ranks’ as much.

    https://www.encheres-luxembourg.lu/en/results/militaria-souvenirs-historiques-armes/portrait-du-sergent-francois-royer-du-corps-du-marechal-soult-1779-1844

    Interesting comparison though… even red cuff flaps atypical, but not rare etc.

    cheers d

    #188211
    Avatar photoHeroy
    Participant

    Well …. maybe.
    If you go to the auction website, you will see a photo of the back of the painting. On the back is affixed a piece of paper, looking post 1945 to me, with a rather complete summary of the data available in the LĂ©gion d’honneur dossier of François Royer. In that dossier, you will find an inquiry in 1965 from Dr. Jean-Claude Quennevat of Versailles (1924-1977) a gastro-enterologist, collector and researcher of the Napoleonic era [1]. Dr. Quennevat was looking to identify the subject of a painting and suggesting sergeants Royer, Larue and Le Bon (all awardees from the 28e de ligne in a listing of LĂ©gionaires published in 1814). The archivist responded that they had nothing on Larue or Le Bon, while providing Royer’s dossier. I think this is the origin of François Royer’s association with the painting.
    [1] See : https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=Quennevat

    Larue and Le Bon are *not* the subject : both have the wrong hair and eye colors. Also, Le Bon was never a sergeant (promoted from fourrier to segent-major) and Larue was already a sergent-major at Eylau. Royer did retire as a sergent due to illness at the end of 1807, but :
    — having a full-size portrait painted would be very expensive for a workman’s son on the half-pay of a sergent (130 francs/year) and pension of a LĂ©gionaire (250 francs/year – the cost of a professional portrait by a not-famous artist), while supporting a wife and growing family
    — he would have been provided a simple veteran’s all-blue frac with chapeau as his mustering-out uniform, not the grand-tenue of a serving sergent
    — all surviving early Empire shako plaques for the 28e are typical 1806-1810 lozenges – the shako plaque in the portrait is clearly late-Empire. Examples :
    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/65/dd/8a/65dd8a7ebd81a40d9179af2211054bee.jpg
    https://1er-empire.com/129/plaque-de-shako-de-voltigeur-du-28eme-regiment-de-ligne-modele-1806-1810.jpg

    However, if we imagine François Royer *did* have is portrait done in retirement, perhaps by an amateur artitst, then the minor “oddities” (over-size shako plaque, red cuff-flaps, cockade with red-blue-and-center-white, red pompon vice blue) might result from the artist’s estimation of the uniform, not what the sitter was wearing.
    The “oddities” are not really very odd, in any case.

    But for me, likely we do not have Royer. Instead, I think we have a serving sergent and LĂ©gionaire painted 1811 through 1813. Maybe I can find a candidate or two ….

    ========================

    François Royer : ? eyes, ? hair
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/333020
    https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/ark:/40699/e0052aa27ca17fcc/52aa27cb91673
    https://gw.geneanet.org/delsevy?lang=en&iz=10&p=francois&n=royer&oc=15
    — nĂ© en 1779 Ă  BaudignĂ©court (Meuse), son of a lathe operator
    — 1.II.1806 sergent au 28e de ligne
    — 14.IV.1807 membre de la LĂ©gion d’honneur
    — 30.XII.1807 retraitĂ© avec demi-solde d’infirmitĂ©
    — 10.I.1809 mariĂ© Ă  Ă  Demange-aux-Eaux (Meuse) avec Anne Lapanne
    — mort en 1844 Ă  Demange-aux-Eaux

    Etienne Larue : blue-gray eyes, auburn hair
    https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/ark:/40699/e0052a9ac3f3e348/52a9ac4297d6f
    — nĂ© en 1778 Ă  La Roche-Morey (Haute-SaĂ´ne), châtain (auburn)
    — 4.X.1802 sergent au 28e de ligne
    — 6.VIII.1804 sergent-major
    — 14.IV.1807 membre de la LĂ©gion d’honneur
    — 20.XII.1807 retraitĂ© avec demi-solde d’infirmitĂ©

    Jean-Augustin Le Bon : blue-gray eyes, auburn hair
    https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/ark:/40699/e0052a9ac3f3e348/52a9ac45de694
    — nĂ© 1782 Ă  Paris
    — 29.VII.1806 fourrier au 28e de ligne
    — 14.IV.1807 membre de la LĂ©gion d’honneur
    — 17.IV.1809 sergent-major
    — 7.VI.1809 mort, noyĂ© près de Valencia en Espagne

    #188226
    Avatar photoOotKust
    Participant

    Well …. maybe. If you go to the auction website, you will see a photo of the back of the painting. On the back is affixed a piece of paper, looking post 1945 to me, with a rather complete summary of the data available in the LĂ©gion d’honneur dossier of François Royer…

    Indeed thanks, I was trying to be hesitant and a little speculative on the matter. That someone would pay over 2000Euro, wow.

    And yes, not attributes but faults  of ‘interpretation’, as we know Detaille not infallible- the myths are strong in these ones!

    And illness of the nominee not wounds. Still, you didn’t get a cross for illness either!

    The 28eme de ligne had a tremendous background and despite being unknown in gaming and uniform terms, was a stalwart regiment over the entire era:

    1800: Stradella, Montebello, Marengo, Gotto, Pozzolo
    1805: Capture of Memmingen, Hollarbrunn,Austerlitz
    1806: Jena, Capture of Lubeck
    1807: Bergfried, Eylau, Wolfsdorf, Heilsberg,Koenigsberg
    1808: Durango, Guenes,
    1809: Talevera de la Reina, Vol-de-Moro, Tolede, Almonacid, Alverez
    1810: Berneck,Siege of Astorga, Sobral
    1811: Campo-Mayor
    1813: Vitoria, Col-de-Mayo, Col-de-Vera

    being stationed in Italy, Europe then Iberia, missing the 1809 campaign. Refer https://www.napoleon-series.org/military-info/organization/c_frenchinf3.html#28th

    Originally sent to St.Omer and formed in Soults Corps for the next 5 years (Vandammes Division so in the centre at Austerlitz)…

    Unfortunately not one of many documented and researched regiments done by Davin/ Berjaud.
    – d

     

    #188260
    Avatar photoHeroy
    Participant

    More portrait sleuthing …. Following is the list of recipients of the LĂ©gion d’honneur among the non-officers of the 28e de ligne. The dates of award and the rank at that time is shown for each. After the name is a * for “retired” or a † for died, then when this took place, and lastly the rank or employ at the time of retirement or death (if different from when the award was made).

    There are 2 awardees who retired as sergents in 1807 and could have lived to wear a late period shako in a portrait : Maurice Lefranc and François Royer. Lefranc is not a good match by physical description with the portrait, and may have died before late model shako plaques were in use. There is no physical description for Royer.

    There are 3 awardees who retired as sergents in 1814/1815 and would have had late model shakos : Jean Bellogis, Jean-Marie Degeorge and Jean-Baptiste-Pierre Millet. Only the first has a physical description matching the portrait.

    24.IX.1803 – fusils d’honneur awarded for Marengo 14.XII.1800 Ă  28.IX.1801

    — sergent Élie Carles † 1804

    —>>> sergent Maurice Lafranc/Lefranc * 1807 † <1814 // age 43 in 1813 if living, 167 cm tall, face plump, hair & brows brown, eyes blue, forehead high, nose ordinary, chin dimpled, mouth average

    https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/ark:/40699/e0052a9ac3f3e348/52a9ac427dad9

    — sergent Nicolas Magot passĂ© garde-forestier

    — sergent Charles-Jean Perdu passĂ© gendarme

    — caporal Louis Fontanelle/Fontenelle/Fontenette † 1803 sergent

    — caporal Jean-Michel Hullin * <1814 chasseur de la garde

    — caporal ClĂ©ment Jacquinot * 1802

    — caporal François-Marie Restout passĂ© douanier

    — grenadier Jean Barios/Barrois * <1814 caporal

    — grenadier Jacques-François Harmand/Harmant * <1814 grenadier de la garde

    — fusilier Jean-Baptiste Aubray * 1804

    — fusilier Jean-Baptiste Brulon * 1802

    — fusilier Claude-François Carrel/Garrel † 1808 caporal

    — fusilier Louis-FrĂ©dĂ©ric Margote/Margottet * <1814 grenadier de la garde

    — fusilier Antoine du Perrouelle/Duperoile dit “Peroise” rayĂ© 1802 caporal

    14.VI.1804

    — sergent Jean Chemin promu 1806 sous-lieutenant

    5.XI.1804

    — sergent-major Cosme-Damien Rousselot * <1814 adjudant

    — sergent-major Jean-Claude Deligand * <1814

    — sergent-major Dantan † <1814

    — caporal Jean GĂ©rard † 1809

    — grenadier Jean-Jacques Legros * 1806

    — grenadier François Duros/Dubos/Dubois † 1809 sergent

    — grenadier Jacques Boivin/Boisvin † 1806

    — grenadier Jean Batifoulle/Batifouille rayĂ© 1807

    — grenadier Laros † <1814 chasseur de la garde

    14.III.1806 – awarded for Austerlitz

    — sergent-major Jacques Cussac promu 1806 adjudant

    — sergent-major Louis Delpech promu 1807 sous-lieutenant

    — sergent-major Louis-ThĂ©odore-Joseph Dusautiez * <1814

    — sergent-major Gilles Lepesant promu 1806 sous-lieutenant

    — sergent Denis Legrand/Le Grand † 9.III1806

    — caporal Jacques-Antoine Gobert * 1807

    — caporal Mathieu-ThĂ©odore Renard * 1806

    — fusilier Jean Risbecq * 1807

    — tambour-major Pierre-Joseph Vallet/Vallete * 1807

    14.IV.1807 – awarded for Eylau

    — sergent-major Étienne Larue * 1807

    —>>> sergent François Royer * 1807 // age 36 in 1813, 159 cm tall

    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/333020

    https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/ark:/40699/e0052aa27ca17fcc/52aa27cb91673

    — fourrier Jean-Augustin Le Bon/Lebon † 1809 sergent-major

    — caporal Claude Jacquinot/Jacquiot * 1808

    — caporal Louis-Alexis François/Français * 1808

    — grenadier Louis Bayard * 1808

    — grenadier Vincent Laguerne/Leguerne/Le Guerne * 1814 porte-aigle

    — volitigeur Claude MĂ©nage * 1810

    — fusilier Jacques Barraux/Barrault * 1808

    1.X.1807

    — adjudant Louis Lagny * 1814 capitaine

    — grenadier Jacques Ferrand † 1809 porte-aigle

    — grenadier Jean Perros/Perrot/Perot * 1811

    24.IV.1810

    — tambour Jean-Louis Henaut † 1809

    2.VIII.1813

    —>>> sergeant Jean Beslogis/Bellogis * 1814 // age 37 in 1813, 173 cm tall, face oval, hair & brows black, eyes light brown, forehead low, nose well-made, chin round, mouth average

    https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/ark:/40699/e0052a9ac3f3e348/52a9ac420c7a2

    25.XI.1813

    —>>> sergent Jean-Marie Degeorge * 1814 // age 30 in 1813, 162 cm tall, face oval, hair & brows auburn, eyes blue, forehead high, nose well-made, chin dimpled, mouth average

    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/104828

    https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/ark:/40699/e0052a9ac3f3e348/52a9ac468d2c8

    12.III.1814

    — adjudant Jean-Louis-Laurent Igouf * 1814

    — caporal Jean-Pierre-Antoine Guillard * 1814

    —>>> caporal Jean-Baptiste-Pierre Millet * 1815 sergent // age 28 in 1813, 172 cm tall, face oval with small pock-marks, hair & brows blond, eyes gray, forehead high, nose ordinary, chin round, mouth average

    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/264307

    https://www.memoiredeshommes.sga.defense.gouv.fr/fr/ark:/40699/e0052a9acc51a18c/52a9acc5a8b43

    #188262
    Avatar photoOotKust
    Participant

    More portrait sleuthing ….

    Superb mon cher!

    As addendum, it may be useful to obtain the balance of  Marshal Soults Memoires- for the Empire period if he details as much as Davouts’ documentation is recited does in his.

    I have only found Vols I & II which finish his early career at the summation of Switzerland 1799. A most brilliant read in concert with Chris Duffys’ excellent book on Suvorov.

    The nature of a higher mind is to recognise and correct its defects.

    Soult- Vol II p314.

    -d

    #188271
    Avatar photoHeroy
    Participant

    Only the first part (of a planned 5 !) of Soult’s MĂ©moires were published (in 3 volumes) by his son, NapolĂ©on-Hector, in 1854. This covered the period 1791-1802. A fourth volume, for Spain and Portugal, was published by Hachette in 1955.
    Incidentally, NapolĂ©on-Hector marrired Saligny’s daughter EugĂ©nie in 1825. On her mother’s side, she was also a grand-niece of Joseph Bonaparte.

    #188275
    Avatar photoOotKust
    Participant

    Only the first part (of a planned 5 !) of Soult’s Mémoires were published (in 3 volumes) by his son, Napoléon-Hector, in 1854. This covered the period 1791-1802. A fourth volume, for Spain and Portugal, was published by Hachette in 1955. Incidentally, Napoléon-Hector marrired Saligny’s daughter Eugénie in 1825. On her mother’s side, she was also a grand-niece of Joseph Bonaparte.

    Ohh bugger that stalls that idea then! Soult and Saligny had been confreres for some time, he also being in the Armée de Helvetie above.

    As a side note I concluded early on, seeing no conflicting information anywhere, that as Soult was ‘kept on hand’ the day of battle by the Empereur his Corps HQ also can’t have been far away.

    Given this I decided to dress up the Chief of Etat-Major, GDV Salligny and put him in full dress with tricoleur panache to his chapeau over his Adjutant-Commandant uniform.
    -d

     

     

    #189516
    Avatar photoOotKust
    Participant

    Amazing amount of men documented.
    Really surprised only one documented Voltigeur though! Would have expected more- perhaps they were smarter than most and avoided getting injured!

    This led me down several trails, and one led to ‘Campagne de Prusse (1806), d’après les archives de la guerre, par P. Foucart,… Prenzlow-Lubeck… (Juillet 1890.)’:

    https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k872401g/f5.image/f1n1019.texteBrut

    This is the text version- while OCRs not so great, I find them better for getting to the core information around characters etc.
    This is the full site where you can also select the pdf version to keep and scour at will.

    https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k872401g/f1.item.r=Campagne%20de%20Prusse,%201806

    Campagne de Prusse (1806), d’après les archives de la guerre, par P. Foucart, noting his introduction:

    L’Empereur n’aurait pas fait imprimer ce recueil tel que je le présente ; il aurait supprimé beaucoup de détails. Mais comme mon but est de faire un livre d’instruction militaire et non une relation de la campagne de Prusse, loin de vouloir abréger les détails, j’ai jugé nécessaire de les multiplier. J’ai ajouté des renseignements peu connus sur l’organisation et le service de l’état-major du Major général et des états-majors des corps d’armée. Juillet 1890.
    Commandant FOUCART.

     

    – The Emperor would not have had this collection printed as I present it; it would have removed many details. But since my goal is to make a military instruction book and not a relation of the Prussian campaign, far from wanting to shorten the details, I felt it necessary to multiply them. I have added little-known information on the organization and service of the staff of the Major General and the staff of the corps. July 1890.

    Commandeant FOUCART.

    – –

    So, a place to start in 1806 and where the following two season campaign of 1807 would lead. Known to the French as ‘la Campagne de Pologne’ another series of two volumes:

    https://gallica.bnf.fr/services/engine/search/sru?operation=searchRetrieve&version=1.2&collapsing=disabled&rk=214593;2&query=%28dc.creator%20adj%20%22Foucart%20%20Paul%22%20or%20dc.contributor%20adj%20%22Foucart%20%20Paul%22%29%20and%20dc.relation%20all%20%22cb304522751%22

    The sources he’s used are too voluminous to cite here…

    cheers d

    #190118
    Avatar photoOotKust
    Participant

    A cross-over issue perhaps, as I reported last night in

    Tue 29 August- Just a note to advise that another minor to significant update by M. Frederic Berjaud…

    .

    His lengthy addition of ” Le 15ème Régiment d’Infanterie légère, 1796-1815 “ is a most welcome, if late, addition.   Reason?

    I posed in an essay over two years ago entitled “[1805] More on Rsv Gren Dvn- Planning/ Deployment Enigma” in which I told/ asked/ sought info to the background of how this regiment appeared in the Austerlitz Army in different places- years before we understood the manipulation of manpower by Napoleon.

    In a nutshell, despite my earnest examinations and searching, parts of the 15eme Legere appeared in both a ‘regular’ Corps d’ArmĂ©e (Davout- the IIIrd) AND within the United Grenadiers, commanded and co-named for, GDV Oudinot once he took them under command in February 1805, and I quote myself:

    {My quandry for clarity:

    *4 – “Barring one exception- none of these regiments lost their ‘elites’.” That one belonged to a regiment stationed in “Belgium” or Helder I think (to late to look up). This ‘extended’ frontier of France was under the military command of the very ablest Marshal- Davout and thus we find the active ‘regiment’ split among two corps. 

    His 15th Legere, in Friants Division, was the only regiment ‘within’ the Grande ArmĂ©e whose manpower had been ‘touched’ for inclusion in the Reserve Grenadiers. This produces something of a quandry to analyse as toward the end of the campaign, this little unit was a vital cog in the very major action on the right flank of the Battle of Austerlitz.
    I plan to expand on this with another post soon..}

     

    No other regiment, of any species, was divided in such a manner. What made this one unique?

    Nothing made sense, and the constructs were, confusing to say the least.

    Berjaud has laid out the time and manner of the movements and construction of the 15eme Legere, its ‘depot’ at Besancon and subsequent movements.

    http://frederic.berjaud.free.fr/15e_Leger/15eme_leger.htm

    Whilst he clarified certain issues with plain language, he hasn’t identified specific sources, which predominantly though, are movement orders by N.

    It was a wonder that the regiment continued to exist. After all parts of it had been despatched in the prior two years to Saint-Domingue and we know the catastrophic losses, and replacements sent, that happened there…

    Under his Chapter titles title

    / 15e RĂ©giment d’Infanterie lĂ©gère, 1803-1815
    / 1803-1805, Austerlitz

    about a quarter down the page, we find the first references to the formations involved [emphasis mine for clarity]:-

    Le 15e LĂ©ger n’est pas compris dans la formation de l’ArmĂ©e des CĂ´tes. Au mois de novembre, les 3 Compagnies de Carabiniers partent pour Arras, oĂą se rĂ©unit la Division d’Ă©lite,…

    a little later paragraph:

    – 1804.

    Le 13 mars est crĂ©Ă©e une Compagnie de Voltigeurs dans chaque Bataillon d’infanterie lĂ©gère. Elle a le cadre ordinaire des autres Compagnies, 2 Cornets au lieu de Tambours, et 104 Voltigeurs.

    I have to wonder, in that simple paragraph, is his summation his own or a quotation? The Carabiniers were sent off to form with the 12e Legere- and we were informed by separate authority about the 12e, that ‘chasseurs’ were also despatched, not voltigeurs, since the latter apparently did not exist at that time.

    I realise this is probably mere symantics to some, yet as stated in my intial query- these elements took part in vital and indeed hair raising combat that directly impacted the result of the overall battle.

    Davouts minions indeed made a significant contribution, and difference.

    – –

     

    #190172
    Avatar photoOotKust
    Participant

    Another Bite…

    I wrote at length, because it annoyed me to have a problem I couldn’t solve…

    However, as time slips by, here is the actual analysis result- and none of it confirms the origin of the company units, despite all we know of how they were supposed to be organised (and the info presented which is largely unchallenged)- but the question remains STILL:

    >>how could the two 15e Legere companies be Voltigeurs?<<
    (refer above for all details).

    The report two days after battle, including- officers, wounded, ‘in hospital’ but not prisoners, in actual numbers of men (first column) and per ‘6’ companies present (Battalion/ Companies):

    SD 45 –
    AvG 537 90
    min 455 76
    max 610 102
    ra 155 26
    med 533 89

    The 15e Legere, somewhat surprisingly:
    536 men (Officers 0.04%) or 86 personnel per company.

    You can see for yourself how the 15eme  ‘ranks’ to the full data for all 10 battalions.

    It is very close to the median AND Average values compared with other units. So in terms of ‘less companies present’ [ie the volitgeurs were taken away] or other hypotheses of replacements, these don’t stack up.

    That three companies were Carabiniers isn’t in question- unless someone finds it; so perhaps there were 1, 2 or all 3 ‘other’ elite companies were actually chasseurs of the 15eL regiment.

    Certainly the stats TWO DAYS AFTER battle give no indication, despite the acknowledged detachment of men.

    I am gradually coming round to the notion that those other companies who were seconded to the ‘5th Regiment de l’elite’ were, like the preliminary ‘orders’ given for the 12e Legere- the brother unit in the ‘5eme Regiment de l’elite’, ostensibly chasseurs only or at best one company of voltigeur. An interesting mix to paint up!

    Of course this last has been confirmed, by several and none less than Bob Goetz (1805: Austerlitz author).

    The substance of “Elle a le cadre ordinaire des autres Compagnies,” somewhat cements a flicker of hope that the ‘decreed’ method of ‘conversion’ from chasseurs to voltigeurs wasn’t quite as obtuse as that.

    And given that the second battalion, plus the ‘attached’ 3e Battalion Voltigeurs by name, were present at Raygern and Tellnitz, then it goes to point that three companies of voltigeurs could not have been in the Grenadiers Reunis (5e regiment de l’elite).

    The numbers above are strong evidence that indeed the 15eme six company battalion, was complete.

    Now, evidence as to ‘how’ they were uniformed [in gaming terms], is wide open. I suspect the dress attributed by all and sundry may be for a later 1807/08 period, and not applicable to the Ulm/ Austerlitz campaign.

    regards -d

    #190202
    Avatar photoHeroy
    Participant

    M. Berjaud is mostly quoting the regimental history, as well as the Correspondence. The history treats this period rather briefly, and the timing of orders vs. execution is a complication. Using the Etat Militaire for the relevant years helps sort the details, as do the Base Leonore dossiers.

    The demi-brigade, originally composed mostly of Belgian “patriotes”, had been reduced to only 2 battalions while campaining all over Italy at the end of the 18th century. The cadre of the 3e bataillon was sent to Dijon in the autumn of 1800 to receive conscripts and rebuild. Ordered to Limoges in mid-1801, the demi-brigade was completed by incorporation of the 1er bataillon de chasseurs basques, and then ordered to garrison duty on the Atlantic coast in the Rochefort region.

    For the Santo-Domingo expedition, 3 companies (360 men all ranks) under the command of the most senior captain of the rĂ©giment, Lambert Piquet (returning to service after retiring in December 1799, Mons 1767 – ?), embarked with the Rochefort squadron at the end of 1801. Another 58 men, returning from hospital or leave, embarked with the Brest squadron. Their number would be reduced to 315 men by early May 1802, and the suvivors entered into the 19e lĂ©ger in November of that year.
    See :
    Colonel Henry de Poyen-Bellisle
    Histoire Militaire de la RĂ©volution de Sant-Domingue
    Paris : Imprimerie nationale, 1899

    In February 1802, a company under the command of capitaine Henry-Joseph Dor (Liège 1761 – 1834) was embarked for the Indian Ocean. He was accompanied by lieutenant Pierre Spouillers (Caderousse au bord du RhĂ´ne 1753 – 1812), sous-lieutenant Albert-François Coget (lieutenant 23.VII.1802, Dourges près de Lille 1771 – 1839 ) and 120 other ranks. They were carried Ă  la suite to the rĂ©giment from 1804 through 1807 when they were re-assigned.
    See :
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/119242
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/134607
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/85762

    In April 1802, the remainder of a battalion, about 500 men in 4 or 5 companies under chef de bataillon Jean-Louis SĂ©pulcre (Liège 1770 – ?) and lieutenant adjudant-major Guilleman embarked from Brest with the expedition to Guadeloupe. The suvivors were entered into the 19e lĂ©ger at the end of the year. In total, 17 officers and about 900 other ranks had been sent to the Carribean.

    During the second half of the year 1802, the remaining two battalions were moved first inland to Saintes, then to Givet in the Ardennes by the end of the year. In mid-1803 they moved to Besançon. On 24 September their name was chaged from demi-brigade to régiment. And by the end of 1803 they had been rebuilt to three battalions with conscripts from the Burgundy region in eastern France.

    In November 1803, the regiment’s compagnies de carabiniers & 1ere compagnies des chasseurs (i.e., 6 companies in total) were sent to Arras to form the 8e bataillon de grenadiers de la rĂ©serve. The officers included : chef de bataillon Denis-Joseph Polart (officier de la LĂ©gion d’honneur 26.XII.1805, Hasnon près de Valenciennes 1751 – 1826), capitaine adjudant-major Jean-Baptiste Charvais (Limoges 1767 – 1837), sous-lieutenant officier payeur Michel-François Bellet (FĂ©camp 1774 – 1840), capitaines des carabiniers Louis-Joseph Baron, Jean-Baptiste Peruset, & Charles-Claude (de) Barral (membre de la LĂ©gion d’honneur 14.III.1806) and capitaines des chasseurs Alexandre-Victor Maupin, Antoine Lemaire & Nicolas-Charles Mouchel. The battalion had in total 21 officers, a surgeon and surgeon’s assistant, and about 720 other ranks. They were paired with a similar battalion formed from the 12e lĂ©ger as the 9e bataillon de grenadiers de la rĂ©serve to create the 5e rĂ©giment d’Ă©lite under the command of colonel Jean-Charles Desailly (Oisy près de Valenciennes 1768 – 1830) of the 15e lĂ©ger and gĂ©nĂ©ral de brigade Ruffin. They were engaged at Amstettin and present at Schöngrabern. The 8e bataillon de grenadiers de la rĂ©serve fielded 19 officers and 513 other ranks at Austerlitz, where they were committed to contain Lieutenant General Przhibyshevsky’s 3rd column, suffering no officer casualties. The bataillon was dissolved in July 1806, rejoining the 15e lĂ©ger, in Paris, by October.
    See :
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/303002
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/76898
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/25712
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/293367
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/18304
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/272226

    In March 1804, each battalion formed a compagnie de voltiguers, in place of its prior 2e compagnie de chasseurs. By mid-1804 the regiment (i.e., three battalions each of 6 compagnies des chasseurs & 2 compagnies de voltiguers) had relocated to Landau, now in the Rhineland, under the command of major Jean-Michel Geither (severly wounded at Austerlitz, Ubstadt près du Rhin 1769 – 1834). At the beginning of the 1805 campaign major Geither took the 1er & 2e bataillons (plus the voltigeurs of the 3e bataillon, who seem to have been employed to bulk up the 2e bataillon *) to Manheim to join the 3e corps of marĂ©chal Davout. The 1er bataillon was to be led by chef de bataillon RenĂ© Monnier-Villeneuve (La Chapelle Basse-Mer en Bretagne 1750 – 1818>) but he did not make the campaign due to illness and infirmity – and – capitaine adudant-major Licasse (membre de la LĂ©gion d’honneur 14.III.1806). The 2e bataillon was led by chef de bataillon Jean-Denis Dulong (promoted major for excellence at Austerlitz, Pont-Audemer en Normandie 1773 – 1844) – and – capitaine adudant-major Jean-Baptiste Charpentier. In mid-October, they reported 43 officers and 843 other ranks present under arms, brigaded with the 33e de ligne under gĂ©nĂ©ral de brigade Kister.

    The 6 compagnies des chasseurs of the 3e bataillon and capitaine quartier-maître trésorier Morin were sent to Mayence at the beginning of October. The first 3 compagnies did garrison service with the 2e corps de réserve under maréchal Lefebvre and the final 3 compagnies re-formed the regimental dépôt. Thet were re-united with the rest of the regiment in Paris late in 1806.
    See :
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/158706
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/126596
    https://www.leonore.archives-nationales.culture.gouv.fr/ui/notice/267884

    * It is not clear to me that 3 voltigeur companies were fielded with the 1st and 2nd battalions. The regimental history said the 3rd battalion’s voltiguers “marched with” the 2nd battalion. Davout explicitly says “two” companies were with Heudelet at Telnitz in some reports. Of the capitaines of the regiment at Austerlitz, I found only 1 who was noted as commanding voltiguers : LĂ©onard-Joseph (de) Reyniac (Liège 1776 – 1840). I strongly suspect that another was the colonel Desailly’s younger brother : François Desailly (Oise 1770 – killed at San SĂ©bastien 1813, so no Base Leonore file). He was already a member of the LĂ©gion d’honneur and had been preferred in promotions. But he was not in the 5e rĂ©giment d’Ă©lite.

    Otherwise, I have confirmed the following 11 capitaines at Austerlitz, in order of seniority. One would expect 12 commanders of chasseur companies, if there were no vacancies, and possibly the (former ?) commander of the voltiguers of the 3e battalion :
    — NoĂ«l-Jacques Devismes
    — Jean-Baptiste Delombre
    — Etienne Ducarouge
    — MĂ©nard
    — Louis-Charles Hesse
    — Marteau
    — Bontems
    — François Serre
    — Croisier
    — Deville
    — Dufour

    The location of the following 7 capitaines I have not determined, in order of seniority. One would expect 6 to have commanded the chasseur companies of the 3rd bataillon and 1 possibly the (former ?) commander of the voltiguers of the 3e battalion.
    — Philippe Joly
    — Rodolphe
    — Dorival
    — Derue
    — Boissy
    — Dreturier
    — Doucet

    #190215
    Avatar photoOotKust
    Participant

    Wow again, quite a few hands full of data in there!
    I read through 9 hours ago and still my brain hurts*. But my thanks for the explanation unravelling the time/who/ where complexities that created all that mess.

    *Actually some teriyaki chicken and japanese salad flavours have distracted me immensely….

    Thanks again. My notes will need to be duly updated; and the 1/ 108eme regiment de ligne completed  also to make this unique brigade!
    cheers -d

     

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