Home Forums Horse and Musket Napoleonic The correct translation of capucine

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  • #136812
    Jonathan Gingerich
    Participant

    is a little vague. But one thing it certainly is not, is, feuillemorte. That color comes from the French feuille-morte which, as 30 seconds with Google will tell you, means dead (or fallen) leaf. Rather capucine is the name of the nasturtium flower and therefore the color of said flower. The flower is a trumpet, with a long nectar spur, which resembles the long hoods of the Capucin order. The color has nothing to do with the brown robes of the order, which, after all, are common to Franciscan orders. The flower is, typically, an orange-red, and that is about as narrow a definition as you will get. French Wikipedia has some precise hues from various silk merchants around 1861, and Rousselot offers his take, which looks like, well an orange-red. Colonel Elting muffs the question on page 441 of Swords around a Throne where he identifies capucine as dead leaf. As the good Colonel wrote nearly 800 pages, he can be forgiven the occasional error. But it is a shame to repeat it when the correct information is readily available on the web because it has been discussed so often.

    #136824
    Not Connard SageNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    It’s nowhere near feuille morte. As you say, it’s a sort of orangey-pinkish red that’s subtly different from aurore.

     

    The ‘good Colonel’ made more than a few errors in his book. I wonder if, like his acolyte, he was a non-Francophone.

     

    Anyway, here’s a song to cheer us up 🙂

     

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #136828
    Tony Hughes
    Participant

    The French are well known for inventing new colours. It started in the 15th century when some new ones were added to the simple heraldic palette and got ‘translated’ into other languages and then re-interpreted later to increase the confusion. By the 18th century it went quite silly with colours to match a princess’ dress and other daft ideas – all just for fashion.  To make it worse people started using older names for familiar colours and some of those were still in use for a different colour. What can you expect from a nation that used a white cross on a white flag as a colonel’s colour !!!

    The same happens with British facing colours though, even without inventing new colours. What exactly is Grass Green – look at grass and you’ll see it is a riot of different colours so which one do you choose ?

     

     

    #136834
    Not Connard SageNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    The French are well known for inventing new colours.

     

    Only the French? Been around B&Q’s paint aisles lately*, and what about ‘gosling green’? It’s supposedly Bowdlerised from ‘gooseshit green’, but if you look at a gosling they are a greeny-yellow colour 😉

     

    *Probably not as it goes.

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #136836
    PatricePatrice
    Participant

    Yes, to me “capucine” colour is some sort of orange-red.

    BTW I suppose everyone here knows which colour “bleu jonquille” and “bleu cerise” are…

    “Jonquille” is a yellow narcissus, and “cerise” means cherry (fruit), however the French Chasseurs Alpins, whose uniforms are mostly blue, have a tradition to call “bleu jonquille” and “bleu cerise” the colours yellow and red…

    http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
    http://www.anargader.net/

    #136848
    Thorsten FrankThorsten Frank
    Participant

    The same happens with British facing colours though, even without inventing new colours. What exactly is Grass Green – look at grass and you’ll see it is a riot of different colours so which one do you choose ?

    Uh, that brings up memories from a certain motorcycle company: Strontium Green, Nuclear Red….

    "In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

    #136851
    Jonathan Gingerich
    Participant

    The good Colonel goes on to claim the French officers would have their uniforms dyed darker so they would fade to regulation color. I can’t completely dismiss this, as there is a Russian announcement forbidding the officers of the Leib-garde from dyeing their uniforms black. But I would like to see the footnote…

    #136853
    Not Connard SageNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    The good Colonel goes on to claim the French officers would have their uniforms dyed darker so they would fade to regulation color. I can’t completely dismiss this, as there is a Russian announcement forbidding the officers of the Leib-garde from dyeing their uniforms black. But I would like to see the footnote…

     

     

    Dark blue would probably fade to blue grey rather than a lighter dark blue. Black fades to grey (there’s another song there somewhere)

    Good luck finding footnotes in his hackwork.

     

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #136854
    Not Connard SageNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    The same happens with British facing colours though, even without inventing new colours. What exactly is Grass Green – look at grass and you’ll see it is a riot of different colours so which one do you choose ?

    Uh, that brings up memories from a certain motorcycle company: Strontium Green, Nuclear Red….

     

    I think it was Strontium Yellow 😉

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #136855
    Thorsten FrankThorsten Frank
    Participant

    The same happens with British facing colours though, even without inventing new colours. What exactly is Grass Green – look at grass and you’ll see it is a riot of different colours so which one do you choose ?

    Uh, that brings up memories from a certain motorcycle company: Strontium Green, Nuclear Red….

    I think it was Strontium Yellow 😉

    Uh, yes, correct! I´ve mismatched that a bit.

    "In strange grammar this one writes" - Master Yoda

    #136872
    grizzlymcgrizzlymc
    Participant

    A lot of black dyes fade brown.  Something that often comes up in American Civil war discussions of the origin of butternut and the jackets of the Louisiana tigers.

     

    Whilst modern dyes fade from blue to slightly faded gray blue, the cheap Bangladeshi shirts I wear in the desert fade to a noticeable purple on the shoulders.

    #136891
    deephorsedeephorse
    Participant

    You’re all wrong.

    This is the colour of Capucine.

    Before I joined Facebook I thought that a) most people were reasonable and intelligent, and b) they could spell words correctly. Guess what ......

    #136902
    Not Connard SageNot Connard Sage
    Participant

    You’re all wrong. This is the colour of Capucine.

    Well she’s wearing a red sweater 🙂

     

    "I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad. It's... depressing."

    #136925
    vtsaogamesvtsaogames
    Participant

    She’s so nice we had to see her twice.

    https://corlearshookfencibles.blogspot.com/

    #136937
    PatricePatrice
    Participant

    She’s so nice we had to see her twice.

    During the Cold War, French politicians said they loved Germany so much that they were happy there was two.

     

    A lot of black dyes fade brown. Something that often comes up in American Civil war discussions of the origin of butternut and the jackets of the Louisiana tigers. Whilst modern dyes fade from blue to slightly faded gray blue, the cheap Bangladeshi shirts I wear in the desert fade to a noticeable purple on the shoulders.

    That would depend of the mix in the dye. When dealing with re-enactment cloth I also was surprised to see some strange things happening, I suppose some red dye had been mixed in it to strengthen the darkest side or whatever, and after washing it hard it shows.

     

    http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
    http://www.anargader.net/

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