Home Forums Fantasy General Fantasy Wargames Atlantic Halflings?

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  • #144799
    Sane Max
    Participant

    Hiya. I have just ordered a box of these, as the basis of my Halfling Democratic Republic Dragon Rampant Army. I hesitated to do it, but finally decided to as I wanted some of their Dark age Irish in any case, and the Dogs will make good mounts for Halfling Light Cavalry, and I already have a Tree-34 (Evil Treeman).

    the reason I hesitated was… they don’t look very halflingy do they? More like midgets than the classic Big Head, Big Hands, Big Feet Apple-cheeked types I am used to.

    Is it just me? Has my ‘Sense of Hobbit’ been damaged by exposure to over-cartoony Halflings from other manufacturers? Just asking. at £25 for 40 halflings I am hardly taking a huge risk here, but I do keep feeling the same way.

    #144800
    Mike
    Keymaster

    they don’t look very halflingy do they?

    I am lazy, help me out… 😉

    #144807
    Whirlwind
    Participant

    https://hereticalgaming.blogspot.co.uk/

    #144808
    Mike
    Keymaster

    Ta.

    Interesting, they are a far cry from the old GW implausible halflings from back in the day.
    They certainly look anatomically feasible, which must be a good thing?

    Having said that I am not sure how I feel about them.

    #144809
    Mike
    Keymaster

    I suspect that had these style of models been dressed in civilian clothes and doing hobbity foody type stuff, rather than in military gear, they would seem more like the pot bellied hobbits of old?

    #144810
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    This subject touches upon one of my favourite things about the hobby: the way different ranges of miniatures portray the same thing in interestingly different ways, especially in the fantastical genres where aesthetic and “art direction” are major factors.

    I think the Wargames Atlantic halflings look eminently “halflingy”, but no, they look nothing like the old GW take on halflings, which also look eminently halflingy but in a very different way, to suit a different aesthetic. I have Wargames Atlantic halflings, Copplestone Castings halflings, Bridge Miniatures halflings (formerly made by Black Hat) and Westfalia Miniatures halflings, and I intend to rarely (if ever) mix them because in my mind they’re meant for different fantasy aesthetics. Once I get some Reaper halflings I might possibly mix them with the Copplestone ones if I deem them to be compatible enough, but that’s not a given, so they might end up representing a fifth aesthetic.

    Similarly I have, or intend to get, many different aesthetics of orcs, goblins, elves, dwarfs and other fantasy races, even humans. I’d like to match these up into sets representing different “art direction” portrayals of a typical Tolkienesque fantasy setting. I should point out I only get small skirmish warbands of each range.

    I’d say you might want to mull over which kind of general aesthetic you’re aiming for with your fantasy setting, and choose your halflings accordingly. What other figures do you mean to mix them with? Cartoonish? Non-cartoonish? In-between? The Wargames Atlantic halflings strike me as being quite far toward the non-cartoonish end of the spectrum. Perhaps the only ones that look even less cartoonish are the Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game hobbits.

     

    #144811
    Sane Max
    Participant

    They are for Dragon Rampant, a fun game, and furthermore as part of a silly Warband – the Army of the Shire if Frodo and Sam had failed to overthrow Saruman and it became the North Korea of Middle Earth – Hobbits, Ruffians, Dog-riding Hobbit Cavalry, an evil Treeman (Tree 34 Tank) and some Giant Spider Refugees from Mirkwood, topped off with a wicked old wizard and a sniveling evil human Side Kick tentatively called Dominic.

    They won’t be doing duty in any other armies, so will be pretty much stand-alone, so they don’t have to be ‘compatible’ – I don’t own another hobbit 🙂

    #144812
    Rhoderic
    Participant

    So what type of aesthetic do the non-halfling figures in the army represent?

    This is just me, but if I was going for the old GW-style pot-bellies with big feet and hands sticking out of them as my halflings, I’d also want the other figures in the army to be similarly cartoonish. Cartoonish ruffians, cartoonish treeman, and so on. If, on the other hand, I had already settled on non-cartoonish figures for the non-halflings (such as the Wargames Atlantic Dark Age Irish for the ruffians), I would also want halflings in a similarly realistic(ish) sculpting style.

    Again, that’s just my preference. To answer your original question, I think the Wargames Atlantic halflings do look the part, but in the context of a relatively realistic aesthetic.

    #144816
    Sane Max
    Participant

    on the other hand, I had already settled on non-cartoonish figures for the non-halflings (such as the Wargames Atlantic Dark Age Irish for the ruffians)

    yes, correct.

    The rest of the force will indeed be fairly realistic looking and not at all ‘Peter Jackson’ in their aesthetic. I think it’s more that I Only KNOW cartoony Halflings, so was expecting them. Like I say, these will be the only ones I own, and the only ones I have painted since an adventurer for D&D back in the 80’s.

    #144824
    John Treadaway
    Participant

    I think the Wargames Atlantic ones are excellent, I have to say: the overly comedic old GW style (for Halflings, Dwarves et all) is not something I ever cared for. Applicable if I wanted to do a Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs game,sure, but not for much else…

    John Treadaway

    www.hammers-slammers.com
    http://www.hammers-slammers.com

    "They don't have to like us, snake, they just have t' make the payment schedule" Lt Cooter - Hammer's Slammers
    #145209
    Sane Max
    Participant

    well, I received mine and am mostly happy. I think they could have given a few more hand weapons rather than 1 per sprue, but nice otherwise!

    #145502
    John Treadaway
    Participant

    Assuming all goes according to plan (fingers crossed) we are planning a sprue on the cover of the January issue of Miniature Wargames with some news inside on their latest releases!

    John Treadaway

    www.hammers-slammers.com
    http://www.hammers-slammers.com

    "They don't have to like us, snake, they just have t' make the payment schedule" Lt Cooter - Hammer's Slammers
    #145669
    Sane Max
    Participant

    I would be interested, especially if you told us about the company. what’s their plan? I assume they intend to release their own systems at some point? How do they find their sculptors? And would they like to buy some plastic Wardogs? 🙂 🙂

    The sprues are very … interesting. The Halfling sprue is far too limited in what you can do with it, it’s Pikes and Halberds really, no other hand weapons – and one sling per sprue on the Irish box is just questionable. 85 shields to 30 warriors, but only 5 slings….. I bought mine for DR, so one box of each is just fine, except I dont get enough slings in a box to do a unit of 6 scouts.

    Imagine if you bought 6 boxes to do an Irish army. what are you going to do with 60 wardogs and 330 spare shields?

    I am not having a go, just interested if this was the result of eager young newbies taking their first steps in a new market, which is my assumption. A story please John, not just a puff-piece!

    As figures they are very nice. The Irish in particular paint very nicely, and their faces in particular are excellent.

    #147787
    John Treadaway
    Participant

    Well Sane Max, I like to think I take pointers from th readership so I took yours (and others) comments on board in the Q&A with Wargames Atlantic and asked them how they made decisions of sprues (and why so many chickens and wardogs!).

    Read the results along with five free halflings in the next issue of Miniature Wargames, out within eight days (or there abouts…)

    John Treadaway

    www.hammers-slammers.com
    http://www.hammers-slammers.com

    "They don't have to like us, snake, they just have t' make the payment schedule" Lt Cooter - Hammer's Slammers
    #147788

    They are for Dragon Rampant, a fun game, and furthermore as part of a silly Warband – the Army of the Shire if Frodo and Sam had failed to overthrow Saruman and it became the North Korea of Middle Earth…

    Well, that explains the relative thinness of the hobbits, as well as their uniformity and discipline, then.

    Ironically enough, I am in the same boat as you, having recently bought a box of both the Irish and the Hobbits for Oathmark.

    The Irish dogs will be going to the Elves, unless I can find a nice hobbit mounted on a pony.

    I, too, am bummed by the lack of slings, which I planned to give to the hobbits. However, I think I can probably easily sculpt some more with mustard seeds and paper.

    My one big problem is that the hobbits are too “middle agey” for Oathmark’s quasi-dark age esthetic. Too well equipped, too. I am thinking of filling in those chainmail shirt margins with greenstuff.

    I will probably shorten the hobbits’ pikes and turn them into spears.

    Also, one of the reasons I bought the Irish was specifically for the wardogs and the extra shields. The Irish themselves are about as generic as one can get for Dark Age humans and/or barbarians, so I am figuring on using some to make a human militia unit and some to make wildmen. I have plenty of uses for the extra shields, specifically in equipping my elven light infantry. The big triangular shields Northstar supplies them with don’t fit my vision of lightly equipped foot soldiers, used to run around dense and bad-going terrain.

     

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #147791
    John Treadaway
    Participant

    My one big problem is that the hobbits are too “middle agey” for Oathmark’s quasi-dark age esthetic. Too well equipped, too. I am thinking of filling in those chainmail shirt margins with greenstuff. I will probably shorten the hobbits’ pikes and turn them into spears.

    Good points. I probably wouldn’t do the chainmail but the pikes are – for me – definitely too long and the helmets a bit over the top. But then they are described as ‘militia’…

    Stature wise, for me they are perfect: I’m pretty sick of the ‘comedy’ halflings from other manufacturers. I mean: they don’t all have to look like me (on the gut front…)

    John Treadaway

    www.hammers-slammers.com
    http://www.hammers-slammers.com

    "They don't have to like us, snake, they just have t' make the payment schedule" Lt Cooter - Hammer's Slammers
    #147800

    I also enjoy the fact that they are “serious” hobbits, remembering the Tolkien’s vision of them was that they were a hell of a lot tougher than they looked.

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #148058
    Sane Max
    Participant

    I mean: they don’t all have to look like me

    I will suggest a range on their forum forthwith.

    I am thinking of filling in those chainmail shirt margins with greenstuff.

    and they are all wearing Greaves. That’s really annoying, I have just overpainted them in the hope no one will notice.

    #148099

    Do you reckon you can carve off the greaves? I plan on painting those on mine as boiled leather.

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #148102
    John Treadaway
    Participant

    Do you reckon you can carve off the greaves? I plan on painting those on mine as boiled leather.

    Having had a good look at mine I’d probably use some soft, ‘brush on’ filler (Delux Materials do a nice one) and paint them  as trouser bottoms. Might leave the odd one in greaves but not many, I’ll admit.

    John Treadaway

    www.hammers-slammers.com
    http://www.hammers-slammers.com

    "They don't have to like us, snake, they just have t' make the payment schedule" Lt Cooter - Hammer's Slammers
    #148105

    I think I am going to sculpt a breastplate on one, give him the full helm with a big red rooster on it, and arm him with a ridiculously large sword. He will be my halfling champion: Big Dick the Red. That’s what he insists his soldiers call him, at any rate. Rickon Smallfields to his family. Ricky Ridiculous, behind his back.

    Ricko or Ringo the Overcompensated to the Big Folk.

    So the Shire’s contingent will be two groups of five scouting slingers, 20 well equipped bowhobbits and Ricky with ten stalwart spearhobbits to hold off charges.

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #148120
    fairoaks024
    Participant

    My MW sub copy just arrived, I’ve had a good look but not built them yet.

    my first impressions:- they look fantastic, very clean mouldings.

    my sprue had no flash at all.

    the faces are full of character. My only criticism is the length of those pikes. For some reason I’d expect halfling pikes to be halfling  sized, but I accept that that is probably just me.

    p.s. the magazine looks like another cracking issue John.

    #148121
    Sane Max
    Participant

    as I am playing DR, The Pikes and Halberds are just fine for me*, but I couldn’t help feeling the lack of hand weapons is a serious mistake for other collectors.

    *I got 12 Pikemen, 12 Halberds and 12 archers, and with one box of Irish as my Ruffians and Ruffian Scouts, and less than one box of Giant Spiders as my Mirkwood Refugees (6 Big Spiders – Lesser Warbeasts, 12 Small Spiders double based – skirmish Cavalry – all I needed to buy for a large DR warband was an evil Treeman and an Evil Wizard to fill the role of Grima Cotton, Party Chairman. The fact the Irish are all bare-foot was perfect. ‘There have been failures to meet Quotas in shoes again this year. The Cobbler responsible is currently undergoing re-education with Commissar Bitey.’

    #148145

    Any chance of using irish arms on the halflings?

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #148163
    Sane Max
    Participant

    yes, if you want halflings with arms like gibbons….. or you could shorten the arms so their elbows are next to their shoulders,….. otherwise, no 🙂

    #148165

    So you reckon lopping off the top part of the arm would be the way to go? How about attaching irish hands to halfling arms? Fiddly, I know, but you reckon it would work without looking too strange?

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #148167

    Although gibbon-like halflings could be fun…

    We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

    #149642
    Padre
    Participant

    Your talk of hacking at the arms brought back painful memories for me! I hacked away at these models’ arms to make all of them pikemen, and all in a marching pose! ‘Twas fun. (If you’re a masochist!)

    I wanted a unit of 36 carrying pikes and not just 16 pikes + command. Even 8 of the pikes had to be converted as they were ‘charging’ pikes and I wanted all of them shouldered. 8 already had a shouldered halberd, which was relatively easy to convert. I kept 4 to use for picture poses.

    The modelling took AGES. In fact I was so sick of them by the time I had done the modelling, I put them aside and worked on several other projects before I could find the motivation to paint them. Here you can see three of them, these all having their hands and arms chopped and re-positioned to shoulder pikes to be something like the actual shouldered pose provided on the sprue …

    Ranked up after modelling …

    You might be able to see that I used plastic brush-bristles for some pikes (an old trick, and as they are brown you don’t always need to paint them and they don’t chip when bent!), and chopped spear tips off anything I could find in my bits box.

    I did like the effect of them altogether, especially the idea that they would be ‘unique’ (surely no-one else would be insane enough to attempt to convert them in this excruciating manner?)

    I tried a painting method that I have recently had some success with, but which now I am not sure I will stick with. I wanted to avoid enamels for health reasons (35 years of breathing the white spirit I clean the brushes with is enough) so I acrylic white undercoated the flesh-areas and washed watered down flesh on them, intending to highlight etc later. I thought this would add subtlety to the faces. (Turns out I am not good at it, and it doesn’t.) Then I undercoated the rest in black enamel, after which I painted everything else in ‘base coat’ acrylics to mirror my cartoon technique. This part seemed to work ok, the acrylics go on fine! Even yellow!!!!

    Here you can see some in the early blue and yellow stage.

    Later, having grappled with them a lot to add various other colours (leather etc) I realised a big mistake. With enamels, for 35 years, I just cleaned, undercoated with black, let it dry a couple of days, then slapped the paint on. Occasionally for some effect I undercoated in white. I never had to ‘prime’. My enamel undercoat was the primer. Now I realised, as chunks of acrylic paint were coming away on the flesh areas, why one has to prime with acrylics!

    So I had to repair with more white paint, and just hope for the best with this regiment in the long term future. The fact that they will probably all die if they ever fight on my current campaign means they only have to survive one game (and a few posed story photos).

    In terms of rules, I knew that they could not really be considered the same as normal pikes. See …

    But luckily the Tilean campaign army list we use (based on the old ‘Treachery and Greed’ unnofficial online campaign list run by old members of the Warhammer Empire forum) has halfling pike using ‘dwarf pikes’, so all is ok.

    I based them singly for the front rank, 2 pairs and 2 singles for the rear, while the middle 4 ranks are based on 2×2 squares. For convenience.

    I have yet to flock the bases (even now I haven’t got around to it as they haven’t yet appeared in my campaign!!!), and I have a spear tip yet to paint which I only noticed in the photos and some tiny corrective work on the commanders’ faces (I have very unsteady hands!) …

    Here they are marching in column (I made drumming noises like a kid as I laid them out like this!)

    I really should get them into one of my campaign stories soon!

     

    My Tilean Campaign can be found at https://bigsmallworlds.com/

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