Warlord epic ACW

[willz]

Has anyone bought the new Warlord games epic ACW figures.

https://acw.warlordgames.com/

 

 

[Steve Johnson]

I don’t think they’re out until late January or early February. The WI next issue has some free sprues and is on sale January 1st, from what I’ve read.

[Mike6t3]

I’ve read they are approx 13mm tall. Do we really need another scale 😧

Apart from the scale it looks like a good concept and well made, so I hope it’s a success for them.

Get there fastest with the mostest and roll highest.

Mike

[McKinstry]

Good luck to them but 13.5mm that might work with 12mm Kallistra or small 15’s is not cutting it for me. I might try the rules (modified Black Powder) but I’ll do it with actual 10mm or possibly even 6’s.

The Pendraken and  Cracker Line 10mm advertised here are far more complete lines and much more cost effective as going with Adler and/or Baccus in 6mm would be as well.

 

The tree of Life is self pruning.

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

The Warlord line looks like it will work fine with Kallistra and it will be expanding, so I don’t see too many problems with variety there. But how is Cracker Lime more cost effective?

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[nigel Tullett]

Someone has listed a frame (I presume freebie from front of WI) on eBay – currently up to £16.00!!!!!!!!!

[McKinstry]

But how is Cracker Lime more cost effective?

One brigade is $32 US with no real alternate options except basing of 10 across, all essentially the same. With Cracker Line or Pendraken or Adler or Baccus I can mix and match and  come close to those numbers  and even while the shear number of figures would be less, I’m not stuck with the same old same old. In addition, I find the single artillery type really problematic as the basic brass Napoleon was in the minority for most of the time with the Union.

The tree of Life is self pruning.

[fairoaks024]

They are pretty though 

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

I think their brigade boxes are overpriced. But the basic set…. 2400 figures for 120 dollars? That is well less than half Cracker Line’s prices.

It seems to me that there are two different castings on that sprue, plus a command casting. Looking at the painted regiments, they give a nice illusion of variety.

When they bulk out the line, one might pay Cracker Line prices, but as 80% of your figures will be bog standard infantry, I think you’ll eventually come in well under CL’s prices. I plan on buying one artillery box so I get a variety of that and two cavalry boxes. That’ll give me enough figs for two large armies. I also plan to do three stand regiments, so I’ll probably buy a mess of extra command when that becomes available.

All in all, I expect to pay around 250 dollars over a two year period for a complete ACW set up.

 

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Norm S]

This is probably the ‘biggest’ news since the Perry’s first brought plastic to historical gaming in 2008, not so much for itself, but because of the impact of perception for the smaller scales right across the hobby.

With Warlord Games doing epic, Victrix doing 12mm WWII, Gripping Beast doing 10mm ancients and Plastic Soldier Company doing 10mm Modern and 15mm ancients, the collective advertising muscle power will transform the way our magazines have for years forced a 28mm concentric view on the wider audience.

Likewise, for years, wargame shows have been 28mm fests, to the point that it was getting that way that there wasn’t that much point in a small scale enthusiast visiting – or spending money anyways.

Now, both of those things will change, small scale product will be better represented at shows and the magazines will bend over backwards for the big advertisers and more people will see more stuff that better fits with their available playing and storage space at home so yes, Good Luck Warlord Games.

Thaddeus, I think you are exactly right that many of us will choose to have formations with fewer bases.

[kyoteblue]

I’m kinda Meh about it. Warlord kinda burned me with Blood Red Skys and Cruel Seas nice models but super sucky rules. That and I already have tons of 15 mm ACW figures painted and rebased for Rebels and Patriots.

[Guy Farrish]

I haven’t seen them in the flesh, or in comparison photos but the stated size; 13.5mm base of foot to mid eye or 15mm to top of head, seems unlikely to match well with modern scale creep 15mm/18mm.

It is probably not an accident – you are obviously meant to buy this as a package. If they don’t match existing standard sizes the less likely you are to mix and match and the more likely to stick with purchasing their package and top ups.

That’s fine but I think I’ll stick with my 2mm and 10mm ACW thanks.

I’d be happier with a higher profile for smaller figures if they had stuck to one of the current sizes rather than attempting to Balkanise the market and hive off yet another niche.

‘Epic’ is clearly an unrepresentative adjective for them as well. The figures are obviously not of ‘epic’ proportions themselves. I am aware of the allusion to the GW 6mm Epic concept of ‘epic’ battles, but 13.5mm seems to fit awkwardly between 28mm ‘Divisional’ games and 10/6mm Corps/Army games.

Less ‘epic’, more ‘sonnet’

 

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

Well, plastics and our new apartment are allowing me to move out of pico scales for the first time in 20 years.

I am giving myself the right to do one 28mm army: individually based fantasy, as it will have the best chance of getting younger folks to play and can also always be used for skirmish battles.

But hell, yeah, I’ll do 13mm plastics!

I will keep on doing 3mm for truly epic battles and portable travel games.

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

Regarding the scale issues…

First of all, there is no 15mm scale. They range from around 13 to 18mm, depending on the line. This stuff will be close enough to Kalistra and small 15mm to be no nevermind on the table top.

But secondly, they aren’t aiming at people who already have smaller scale civil war armies. They are aiming at new gamers who want to transition to historicals from Games Workshop and old gamers who have no ACW armies because it was just too expensive to get into an era you weren’t REALLY interested in.

With a total of 250 USD buy-in over a couple of years, this is a perfect size for the guy who always wanted to do some ACW but who doesn’t really care if the line contains historically accurate figures for the 1862 uniformed Kentarkoma Plumber Zouaves. I think they rightly consider the latter kind of gamer to be a zero in terms of sales. Who they are aiming for is his younger nephew who wants some more gravitas in his hobby but doesn’t have much disposable income or a burning desire to discover which canteens a given regiment used.

Although I am older, I fit that demographic perfectly. Also, as Kyote mentions, I don’t have to worry about the rules because I already have them and like them.

After years of doing 3mm, these look to me like they will be a breeze to paint, too, at least to an improved table top standard.

 

 

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Guy Farrish]

‘There is no 15mm scale’

True – it’s a size not a scale (couldn’t resist -not sorry) but, there is a sort of mean around 15mm to the eyes/18mm to the top of the head – some a little smaller maybe, some a little taller.

Going for an inflated 12mm seems deliberately exclusionary – if you are starting from scratch you could just as easily do it in a standard 10mm or 15mm to eye and open up a world of terrain and figure compatibility.

If  it is designed to capture an introductory fantasy/historical switchover as you suggest, it is unfortunate for the the rest of us, or perhaps for them depending how much buy in there is, that it seems aimed to be incompatible with nearly everything else around.

I’m sure it will do well and I hope people enjoy it when they buy it. I’m guessing this is aimed at a US base as I have never felt ACW was a massively popular era in the UK, but I may be wrong. It has been known occasionally! Perhaps this will really boost ACW in the UK.

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

I have seen some 15mm comparison shots where the figures vary wildly, both in terms of hight and chunkiness. A couple millimeters difference is much more noticeable here than at 25-32mm.

My 15mm are a case in point. I love them to death. They are the old Black Raven designs, now marketed by Old Glory. I am kind of stuck into that line, however. It’s been hard finding other fantasy figures that go with them. Splintered Light, maybe. But given that I won’t buy from SL or OG for moral reasons, I have decided to sell off my 15mm fantasy and move up to 28mm plastics.

I do think they are being deliberately exclusionary here, but many “15mm” producers are just as exclusionary, whether it’s deliberate or not. If you are going to make a “one stop shopping” ACW line in plastics that is not aimed at grognards, why not do it in whatever scale you wish? It makes sense, encourages brand loyalty and allows you to be as distinctive as you like with your figures. Given the nature of the material they are working with, it’s unlikely a “true 15” plastics scale would easily match most of the metal lines out there, anyhow. Better for them to develop their own, more realistic, esthetic.

I think this is a marketing decision, yes. It is based on maximizing sales, not supporting other manufacturers. It’s a solid decision for Warlord, even though it means existing ACW players won’t be buying in. But that is not their market, anyway.

Again, with a basic buy in of 120 dollars… hell, that is even going to catch some grognards with existing ACW armies.

But it is not the grognards they are aiming for. Cruel Seas was their attempt to hit that market and it wasn’t really successful.

 

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

Just for comparison’s sake, my THREE mm ACW armies cost me around 100 USD. And that  also bought me around 2400 figures, some fences and a couple of houses.

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Who Asked This Joker]

Shame they went “off scale/size”.  2400 soldiers for $120 is a steal.  Even the brigade boxes would have been a decent price.  I have too many Old North State miniatures supplemented with Cracker Line.  So I am set.  If ever they do 30YW/ECW in that size/scale, I might just give them, a little business.

John

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

--Abraham Lincoln

[willz]

I am very tempted to buy I have wanted to do ACW for a while and have considered doing it in 20mm using Airfix figures but the price that they sell for has put me off that project.  Now these are very tempting around £90 for 2400 figures I think is a good price I have not painted many 15mm figures but have always found them easy to paint.  With over 2000 infantry I would only need  200 – 400 cavalry some maybe an other £30 in total £120 for an ACW project is excellent value.

Graham from Crann Tara Miniatures has painted a couple of hundred, have a look on his blog.

https://scotiaalbion.blogspot.com/

[Guy Farrish]

I popped out to the post office this afternoon and noticed a copy of Wargames Illustrated on the shelves – 2 copies actually – an amazing find where we live.

On the front was a frame of the Warlord Games ‘Epic’ Scale ACW figures.

This is it:

There is a frame of bases to go with it.

First thing I hadn’t twigged before was the fact that the lines of ten figures are all moulded as one block, each joined at the shoulders and elbows to the next man. Not sure if that bothers me or not.

They are nice little figures and I could see myself using a couple of blocks as a unit and playing army level games with them quite happily.

The bases are 6cm wide and the blocks of figures 5.5cm wide. This for me would be okay as a base, but if you want to go for say 4cm or 8cm bases you would have to start hacking.

Height: They are exactly 13.5mm from the sole of the boot to the eye and 15mm to the top of the head.

Which means:

They don’t fit with 10mm or modern 15mm figs.

The above is a comparison with a Museum Miniatures medieval billman and a Pendraken ECW Standard bearer. Admittedly the Museum figures are known to be large (this one is nearly 20mm to the top of the head) and this Pendraken range is spot on 10mm to the eye. But it does mean I would find them difficult to field with 15/8mm figures.

 

I admit I like the figures and find myself tempted but as they have no cavalry available yet and I don’t know what release plans for other figures are (Zouaves at least by the look of it) I would be reluctant to commit as I wouldn’t feel right mixing other manufacturers near sized figs if cavalry were a long time appearing.

 

Very nice but probably not for me.

 

I’ll paint them up and see if I am converted.

[willz]

They are nice Guy, thanks for your report.

[Steve Johnson]

Thanks for the comparison pics Guy and the info on the base widths too. Not fitting on a ‘standard’ 50mm base is a big put off for me, aside from them not fitting in with other figure ranges.

[Who Asked This Joker]

6CM bases is fine for element based gaming.  They don’t seem to have any cavalry yet.  You’d be pretty hard pressed to find cavalry that fit that size.  Maybe some old (c1978) minifigs perhaps.  They look fine but you have to base them as they want them.  A definite pass.  Thanks for posting the report and comparison, Guy.

 

John

John

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

--Abraham Lincoln

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

I plan on cutting my bases down to two inches.

It also looks like the figures can be pretty easily divided into two stands, each one inch wide.

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Michael Love]

I should be picking up mine Friday evening. Excited! (Hopefully I get around to painting them…)

[Thaddeus Blanchette]

I am excited, too, but mine will be in the U.S. until I can pick them up.

We get slapped around, but we have a good time!

[Author]

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