We might be bad but we're not that bad

[Ivan Sorensen]

I posted this on another site too but i figured it was worth saying here too.

So people like to take a stab at some of the worse elements of wargamer culture (bickering about companies, endless pedantry, uniform nazi’s, actual nazi’s etc.)

Then, I read some headlines and see how one of the developers of the next Mortal Kombat game had to stop using twitter because psychos were threatening his wife and daughter with rape, because they weren’t happy with something in the game.

And I just have to step back and go “you know what? The fat dude who talks too much about coat buttons… he’s not too bad”.

You hear that? Uniform pedants and edition warriors and GW haters? You’re okay.

[John D Salt]

Ivan Sorensen wrote:

So people like to take a stab at some of the worse elements of wargamer culture (bickering about companies, endless pedantry, uniform nazi’s, actual nazi’s etc.)

Harrumph. I regard pedantry as a virtue.

Although, as Liddell Hart almost said but didn’t quite, “It is easier to become a pedant on buttons than on tactics.”

All the best,

John.

[kyoteblue]

I’m just glad we have TWW.

[Spurious]

Twitter is just a terrible place in general, it’s incredibly easy to make throw-away accounts and just start throwing the metaphorical poop at people, and the character limit makes any actual discussion pretty much impossible. It’s good for just 3 things overall: announcements, links and… (had to stop and think for a bit here) those couple of places that do nothing but post out-of-context patch/bug report notes, especially the ones from Dwarf Fortress like “Fort gets sieged by invisible friendly elf/human babies”.

[Cerdic]

The older I get, the more I find a sense of perspective is lacking in a sizeable percentage of the human race. Being passionate about a subject is all well and good but, well…..come on……!

It’s a shame pleas for reason often fall on deaf ears. As I’m sure kyoteblue will agree……

http://28mmreview.blogspot.co.uk

[Mike]

I like to think that the vast majority of people are happy for others to put in as much research and detail and accuracy as they like into their hobby.
Just as most people are, I suspect, happy with the amount they put into their own.

It only becomes an issue when people make derogatory comments about others based on preconceptions and their own bias.

People do this hobby for various reasons, I know wargamers that are happy never to game as long as they have super pretty models, and likewise I know people that are happy to game with unpainted models.

Horses for courses, and if you disagree…

[shelldrake]

Given we discussed “buttons” etc during our google hangout, I too would like to say that the ‘The fat dude who talks too much about coat buttons’ is okay based on the nut job using twitter.

[Ivan Sorensen]

I should add that I am pretty chunky so I am not using “fat” as an insult 😉

[Patrice]

I think there is a big difference between having opinions and arguments about such-and-such aspects of gaming / miniature sculpts /miniature painting / etc, that we don’t like, and being disrespectful to other gamers.

I probably sometimes seem pedant about historical details, and I have some …opinions… about GW, but when I organize gaming events (or gaming corners in larger events) around here I also invite Warhammer players to come with their games. We don’t have big events where I live and we can’t afford to let some wargamers outside ; and anyway whatever we can say the public thinks we are weirdos and it won’t be better if we openly claim that other players are more weirdos than us.

http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
https://www.anargader.net/

[The Gorb]

I took a lot of pummling when I came out with my Japanese Schoolgirl miniatures, even though they were designed to look like real girls and not the over-sexed anime type girls.
And most of the folks making the rudest comments hadn’t even othered to look at them.

I love “da intarwebz” but some people just like to pile on.

Regards, The Gorb

Left Hand Miniatures
http://www.lefthandminiatures.com
Graydon Gorby, Owner

[Ivan Sorensen]

People have massive issues with sex in general but that’s probably a discussion for another forum altogether 🙂

[Mike]

I have no issue with them.
They are not something I would buy (except in 6mm maybe) but having an understanding of comics and animation and so on, maybe that is why they are not a problem for me?

[Ivan Sorensen]

I imagine people just saw “japanese school girl” and flipped their lids because anime and manga does attract a lot of creepy old perverts (and I say that as a modest anime fan in general)

[Angel Barracks]

Totally, there is plenty that is plain bad, plenty that is just wrong and plenty that is aces.
Just like books and films and people.

[Ivan Sorensen]

Indeed. I always have kind of a weird spot with anime because on one hand, I don’t have it as a lifestyle like some people do, and when I talk to hardcore anime fans, I always feel like I have no idea what is going on.

But then I talk to people who’ve only watched one or two shows and I realize I have watched way more than them.

[Angel Barracks]

Ivan Sorensen wrote:

But then I talk to people who’ve only watched one or two shows and I realize I have watched way more than them

That will be me then!

[Ivan Sorensen]

See what I mean? 🙂

[Angel Barracks]

I would buy more except for the price and many of the ones on Netflix or Amazon Prime are a bit naff.
Saying that, when Girls Und Panzer is on TV…

[Ivan Sorensen]

Netflix selection is weird.

My usual list of “stuff you should probably watch” is:

Ghost in the Shell (movies and show, both are excellent)

Trigun (silly but fun and ends on a bit of a gut punch)

Grenadier (very silly but very heart warming)

Ergo Proxy (really cool slightly mystical cyberpunk show)

Evangelion (unless you’re suicidal)

Full Metal Panic (swings between really cool and really funny. Gets rather silly but also has some really emotional moments).

Finding them for streaming though might be a crapshoot :/

[Angel Barracks]

Looks like an idea for a new topic to me

😉

[Ivan Sorensen]

Well, since none of you boneheads listen to metal, I gotta talk about some pop culture here 🙂

[shelldrake]

Ivan Sorensen wrote:

Well, since none of you boneheads listen to metal…

I will have to call BS on that statement

[Ivan Sorensen]

Yeah? Prove me wrong 🙂

[Spurious]

shelldrake wrote:

Ivan Sorensen wrote:

Well, since none of you boneheads listen to metal…

I will have to call BS on that statement

Seconding that.

Ivan Sorensen wrote:

Yeah? Prove me wrong

Ok. Following the rule of pics or it didn’t happen, short segment of this afternoon’s youtube history:

.

Still not claiming I actually have taste btw.

[Rod Robertson]

Ivan:

Does punk and hard-driving progressive rock count. I like heavy metal music but too often the “singing”, which I liken to rhythmic clearing of the throat, ruins the music. Why does heavy metal insist upon putting such “vocals” into their music?

To all:

And to the topic at hand; wargamers may be eccentric but most are charming folk who are delightful people with strong opinions on certain subjects. Sure, there is the occasional narcissist or nut-job in the mix, but that is true of any community. Wargamers are well educated/informed for the most part and passionate about their hobby.

Such passion can sometimes lead to enthusiastic expression of “perceived rightness” and spirited argument. As long as we all keep an open mind and a generous heart we can all get along and if not learn from each other then at least agree to disagree. Oft times posters write things and anger others unintentionally. They are declaimed as agitators ot trolls. If their post was born out of an honest desire to discuss something we should be generous enough to either discuss the issue in good faith or to say nothing and move on to another thread. We must avoid being ideological crusaders and allow room for differences of opinion and dissent from orthodoxy. That doesn’t mean we don’t make our own case or argument. Only that when we have done so we don’t succumb to frustration or aggression when others don’t agree with us or contradict us. I have learned a great deal through participation on wargame fora and I greatly appreciate all who have contributed to my education whether I agree with them or not. So thank you to all on this and other fora and I hope the debate will continue with open minds and generous spirits.

Cheers and good debate.

Rod Robertson.

[kyoteblue]

I have tried for my Grand Daughter Ehteena who is 22 and some of my younger friend to get into Anime , but it leaves me cold. Archer /Venture Brothers I like a lot. I’ve listened to every kind of music know to man at one time or another thou of late it’s been Classical music.

I don’t much care about buttons a little about rivets, I want to roll dice and have fun. So simple stupid rules work for me.

[Norm S]

Re opening post.

The best thing about the internet is that everyone has a voice.

The worst thing about the internet is that everyone has a voice.

[Ivan Sorensen]

I love you guys 🙂

Prog rock does count as good, even if it’s not metal. There’s prog metal too but it tends to be kind of self-indulgent.

Spurious – ANthrax absolutely counts 🙂
I’ve been on a huge 80’s thrash kick the past week or so.

[Ivan Sorensen]

Careful, you might start the “is Led Zeppelin heavy metal?” debate 🙂

I recently went through every “metal” and hard rock album released in 1970. Good stuff. Lots of old Zeppelin, Purple and Sabbath.

[Abwehrschlacht]

Weighing in with the Metal here, I’m a massive and obsessive fan of Norwegian Black Metal and have been since its inception since the early 90s. Plus I like Thrash, Death, Traditional and most other Heavy Metal types. However, my musical tastes also stretch many genres, from Medieval music through to electronica and beyond to people like Johnny Cash, Elvis, Tom Waits and Nick Cave. The only thing I can never get into is Jazz.

 

Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/stormofsteelwargaming

Blog: http://www.stormofsteelwargaming.com

[Ivan Sorensen]

Nice, never quite got into black metal but a huge fan of thrash, NWOBHM, power metal (the cheesier the better), death metal (particularly the older, heavier style like old Morbid Angel or later Bolt Thrower). Been warming up to Grindcore and Deathgrind a lot too.

[John D Salt]

I have Enya, Metallica, Motorhead, Pink Floyd, P Diddy, Led Zepplin, 2nd movement of Tchaikovsky’s 6th, and Hans Zimmer on the same play list.

Next to writing “6-lber” for “6-pdr”, the thing that winds me up most is misspelling poor old Pyotr Ilyich’s family name starting with a spurious ‘T’. There is no ‘T’ in “Chaikovsky” in Cyrillic, and no reason for an anglophone to use the Germanic transliteration.

This reminds me of the horrors of reading the account of Tsushima in Jacques Mordal’s “25 Centuries of Sea Warfare” in English tranlation, where the translators had kept the French transliterations of all the Russian ship names. Aaaarrrgh!

All the best,

John.

[Rod Robertson]

Well it’s a cry’in tshame!

Now who has the intestinal fortitude to endure this little gem from the 1970’s?

Enjoy!

Rod Robertson.

[kyoteblue]

Oh and I like Bagpipes……

[McLaddie]

I definitely think we wargamers are too hard on ourselves. Any annoying behaviors or communication we might run into is easily as or even more prevalent elsewhere… on the golf course, racquet ball court, a bridge tournament or just about any hobby or competitive sport.  Some of the most unbelievably crass behavior I have seen has been on the golf course.  That doesn’t excuse or make such behavior tolerable, but yeah… we aren’t that bad–at all.

Let’s see, the mix I’m listening to right now has The Kentucky Linemen,  Enya, Lady Gaga , David Guetta, the Eagles, Moby, Acivii, Coldplay, Lana Del Ray, the Grateful Dead, CS&N, Mumford & Sons, Celtic Fiddling by Hanneke Castle and several entries at the Boca 2008 College a Cappella competition.

From looking at all the lists, I’d say wargamers are a fairly eclectic in the music department.

Ghost in the Shell (movies and show, both are excellent)

Agree! I wish the movie squeals had been half as good.

 

 

[Rod Robertson]

Kyoteblue:

So you like bagpipes do ya? Enjoy some German bagpipes with a twist – they play Italian Renaissance music!

Do you like the Blues, Kyote?

Cheers

Rod Robertson

[Ivan Sorensen]

McLaddie – The Ghost in the shell movie sequels were kind of weird. I think they got carried away a bit too much with hte metaphysical stuff.
The show did a good job mixing a little bit of mysticism with nice, hardcore cyberpunk/transhumanism and some ethical questions.

Edit: Kyote likes Bagpipes because he remember when he was only in his early 30’s and they invented the bagpipe 🙂

[ds615]

Patrice wrote:

I think there is a big difference between having opinions and arguments about such-and-such aspects of gaming / miniature sculpts /miniature painting / etc, that we don’t like, and being disrespectful to other gamers.

Yes, I agree with this.

We aren’t “bad” as the OP puts it, we’re just terribly annoying sometimes.  I mean some people are, not me of course.  

 

Edit: forgot to weigh in on the wandering topics.

I listen to pretty much all forms of music, except jazz.  I just don’t like it.  Everything else I enjoy as it comes, meaning on a song by song basis.

Anime/Manga I despise. There is nothing I find good about it, from the stories to the art, it just isn’t good.

[John D Salt]

I don’t really like music so much as I like songs. I like the lyrics to be audible, and, ideally, clever. That means quite a bit of folk, folk rock like Steeleye Span, comic-song stuff such as Flanders & Swann or Tom Lehrer, early folk-pop like Pete Seeger, The Seekers or Peter, Paul and Mary, and things awkwardly described as “English chanson” if they are described as anything, so Jake Thackray and Pete Atkin. Strong female voices I like, so put me down for Dory Previn, Blondie, Laurie Anderson and Amy MacDonald. And I grew up with punk in the 70s, so TRB, the Jam, the Boomtown Rats, Stiff Little Fingers, Ian Dury, all good stuff. And if I haven’t mentioned Stackridge and the Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band, it’s because I just assume that everybody loves Stackridge and the Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band.

I’ve never seen the appeal of Japanese cartoons when French cartoons are so very much better. Most anglophones are unaware of French cartoon culture beyond Asterix and Tintin (who is Belgian anyway), but there is a massive amount of briliant other stuff available. I especially like Dmitri (Raspoutitsa, Kaleunt, le Goulag), Christin and Mezieres (Valerian et Laureline), Lib, Gotlib and Solé (Superdupont), Arthur de Pins (Péchés Mignonnes), Claire Bouilhac (Melody Bondage), and of course Franquin (Idées Noires). I have subscriptions to Charlie Hebdo and Fluide Glaciale, and am pondering whether to resubscribe to L’Echo des Savanes.

Curious wargame related factoid: the French cartoonist Guy Mouminoux, who writes/draws under the pen-name Dmitri, is the same man who wrote “The Forgotten Soldier” under the pen-name Guy Sajer.

All the best,

John.

[Ivan Sorensen]

Oh, I didn’t know that. I liked “The Forgotten Soldier” a lot.
Was it ever determined if it was true or made up? I remember seeing some fuss about it, back when I read it.

Never did watch any French cartoons but I read plenty of French comics. Lots of great science fiction and fantasy, usually weird, often fatalistic and often quite sexy, particularly for an impressionable teenager 🙂

[Author]

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